Silver Hallmark

[nathan104]

This silver hallmark has be baffled. This is on a large serving platter. It came from my MIL's family which were VERY well off.

On the bottom of the little shield it says "Virtue Alone Ennobles" Im not sure if the three symbols on top of the little shield are letter or what( actually it looks like the middle symbol is part of the coat of arms and is a wolf? head with an arrow through it). On the shield the three larger symbols look like wolf heads and the three smaller symbols in the middle V of the shield look like lions. Any help is appreciated!


Hopefully one of these will be clear enough.

 

[Nitric]

That's really interesting!! I'm up for a challenge tonight. If no one else has an answer. I'll be back.....

 

[Retired Sarge]

The shield is similar in design to the Watson coat of arms. Which makes me wonder if it's a hallmark or marked with a family coat of arms. In earlier times people of means commissioned pieces to be made and had it marked with their families coat of arms. What better way to impress your company than with silverware marked to your family.

Still it could be a hallmark, but I'm not finding one similar to it in my searches.

https://coadb.com/surnames/watson-arms.html

Fixed link, dont know what the original link was showing......LOL.

 

[Nitric]

From everything that I'm finding so far...It's what ffuries is saying. It's looking like it's Irish or Scottish.

I'm wondering if it isn't a club or organization mark. Just a thought....Nothing comes up with that as a hallmark.

 

[nathan104]

Found it I think! But not sure what it means on the silver tray. I cant find any other hallmark. And the two letter above the coat of arms are not part of the coat of arms. They look like a stylized CC maybe?

Its the TABER coat of arms

Title

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[Taber coat of arms]

​

Creator

​

Taber, I. W. (Isaiah West), 1830-1912

​

Date Created and/or Issued

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[1897?]

​

Contributing Institution

​

California State Library

​

Collection

​

California History Section Picture Catalog

​

Rights Information

​

Please contact the contributing institution for more information regarding the copyright status of this object.

​

Description

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"Borne to the name of Taber, virtue alone ennobles."
2013-1460.
Hand painted by Taber. Taber found the family coat of arms during trip to England, created this version. He used as the basis for the logo for Taber's studio from 1897 to around 1910.
Doris Maslach ;

 

[Retired Sarge]

I'm beginning to lean towards a Pewter touchmark/hallmark. But it still could be an owner mark also.

Oh and the 2696-00 numbers would be the catalogue number.

 

[Nitric]

I'm going at this completely blind with little knowledge...But this may help in figuring out what each symbol means. The spear through the head, the upside down v in the shield, etc....

https://coadb.com/glossary

 

[Nitric]

Found it I think! But not sure what it means on the silver tray. I cant find any other hallmark. And the two letter above the coat of arms are not part of the coat of arms. They look like a stylized CC maybe?

Its the TABER coat of arms

Title

​

[Taber coat of arms]

​

Creator

​

Taber, I. W. (Isaiah West), 1830-1912

​

Date Created and/or Issued

​

[1897?]

​

Contributing Institution

​

California State Library

​

Collection

​

California History Section Picture Catalog

​

Rights Information

​

Please contact the contributing institution for more information regarding the copyright status of this object.

​

Description

​

"Borne to the name of Taber, virtue alone ennobles."
2013-1460.
Hand painted by Taber. Taber found the family coat of arms during trip to England, created this version. He used as the basis for the logo for Taber's studio from 1897 to around 1910.
Doris Maslach ;

Wow! I think you nailed it! If not? I don't know how much closer it could get!

 

[nathan104]

What does it mean to have that coat of arms as the hallmark on a silver piece? And the two stylized "C" marks, maybe date codes?

 

[Nitric]

What does it mean to have that coat of arms as the hallmark on a silver piece? And the two stylized "C" marks, maybe date codes?

Not to ask a stupid question, but it's hard to know what other people know..So no offense......Are you 100% sure that it's silver? The casting crack/mark makes me wonder and it's really hard to tell by the pics. I don't recall seeing casting marks in silver. But It's been a long time, and I never really looked for them either, I may have looked right at them before and just never noticed.

 

[Retired Sarge]

It would be an Owners Mark versus a Hallmark. In other words a family of means would commissioned plates, platters and such to be made, and would have their coat of arms, initials, name, or even an establishments name stamped on the item. Much like having a shirt with your monogram or name today.

What better way to impress your guests, than to have your dishes marked with your family crest.

 

[Retired Sarge]

Not to ask a stupid question, but it's hard to know what other people know..So no offense......Are you 100% sure that it's silver? The casting crack makes me wonder and it's really hard to tell by the pics. I don't recall seeing casting marks in silver. But It's been a long time, and I never really looked for them either.

Why I thought it might be pewter......

 

[nathan104]

If you are referring to the dark line of stuff to the left of the hallmark, that is sticker residue, not casting marks. There was sticker with my MIL family name that I peeled off. Thats why in the third picture that area is shiny silver and not tarnished like the rest of it.

 

[Nitric]

If you are referring to the dark line of stuff to the left of the hallmark, that is sticker residue, not casting marks. There was sticker with my MIL family name that I peeled off. Thats why in the third picture that area is shiny silver and not tarnished like the rest of it.

I'm meaning the pits, the line of pits that kind of looks like a crack...Not really a crack...but the only word I know how to describe it. I may be completely wrong on that. I've seen a lot of silver....ANd I just don't recall seeing that in good silver. But...There are a lot of things I forget and may have just never noticed. I would just put some nitric acid on it and see what color turned up to test it. Never really studying it too much.

I'm also a believer that the letters are not date codes. Date code and location are usually in something like shield or some type of something, not always but most of the time at least one is, plus it's still missing content mark. I don't believe they would have only put half of the marks.

Very cool piece! It would be interesting to see a pic of the whole thing.

 

[nathan104]

If you dont mean the dark line that goes through the 6 (which is the tape residue) than I guess I dont see it. There is also a small circle spot above the coat of arms that looks like it has been acid tested before. IVe never dealt with Pewter. Even if its silver plate or pewter, Im pretty interested in this piece now having ID'd the coat of arms on it. Would be cool if I can find a connection of my MIL family "Larkin" with the Taber line.​

 

[nathan104]

Sorry should have posted a full picture to start with. There is a design on the front but its hard to see in the picture with the scratches.

 

[Retired Sarge]

I think the word or term you're looking for is casting flaws.

 

[Nitric]

Sorry should have posted a full picture to start with. There is a design on the front but its hard to see in the picture with the scratches.

very cool!!! I'll bet it would polish up nice. I can even see a design in it. And yes! Who cares what the content is on something like that. It's a family piece! That's what makes stuff like this fun to find!! And to be honest? I can't tell what it's made of by pics. it doesn't matter anyhow! I will tell you silver has a distinct smell you should be able to smell it and see if it's silver whether it's plated or not. At least I think I can smell it as a very first test. Smelling the silver oxide probably killed half my brain cells. The nitric acid fumes from testing probably killed the rest.

And yes, taking pics of metal is hard. I can polish a pocket watch case to perfection, try to take pics for Ebay and the camera pulls every little tiny scratch and magnifies it. Stuff you can't even see with the eye. So I understand that.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Isaiah Taber was a San Francisco photographer who died in 1912. He made his fortune selling prints of images the famous photographer Carleton Watkins had photographed.

Taber was fascinated with royalty and clearly wanted to be seen as famous and high born. The family crest he made up was printed on the Watkins photo prints without giving any credit to Carleton Watkins. A lot of the better early Yosemite photos were Watkin's work but for many years they were credited to Taber. To this day much of Carleton Watkins work is still being attributed to Taber.

Watkins was a world class photographer - Taber was a showman with little photographic skill. Watkins died in poverty in 1916 and is buried in an unmarked grave. Such is life...

It appears your piece is electroplated. If it were silver it would be marked as such. It does look like a later piece so the Taber crest could have been added after his death?

 

[Nitric]

Isaiah Taber was a San Francisco photographer that died in 1912. He made his fortune selling prints of images the famous photographer Carleton Watkins had photographed.

Taber was fascinated with royalty and clearly wanted to be seen as famous and high born. The family crest he made up was printed on the Watkins photo prints without giving any credit to Carleton Watkins. A lot of the better early Yosemite photos were Watkin's work but for many years they were credited to Taber. To this day much of Carleton Watkins work is still being attributed to Taber.

Watkins was a world class photographer - Taber was a showman with little photographic skill. Watkins died in poverty in 1916 and is buried in an unmarked grave. Such is life...

It appears your piece is electroplated. If it were silver it would be marked as such. It does look like a later piece so the Taber crest could have been added after his death?

I wish I could know and maintain just a fraction of what you know!!

Added....Retain..Not "maintain"! I can't even remember words!!!!