Silver price manipulators

[dreamboxvip]

Please stop driving the price down! Atleast keep it the same!! Drives me nuts. The more i find, the more it goes down.

 

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[dreamboxvip]

Waiting sucks, especially 30 years.

 

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[fish on!]

Wow, $17.76 for silver now. Those are revolutionary prices lol.

Idk if there was any recent news or not that made silver sell off more than gold today. Its usually difficult to figure or understand prices in the short term. Traders usually buy and sell for the wrong reasons so I don't usually try and make much sense of most of the trading noise. Im more interested in the long term fundamentals. But it will be interesting to see how low it goes. It sure makes buying at these low prices much more temping.

It's really not that hard to track or figure out. It's the same market fundamentals that I have been arguing with you guys about on here for months. The price of gold and silver is returning to historical normal prices following the insanity of the financial meltdown and ensuing recession. The thing that happened this past week is that the fed announced that they are going to continue and increase the pace at which they taper quantitative easing. They also stated that they are going to leave interest rates where they are in the short term, but as the markets continue to improve they are going to begin raising interest rates. The drop in silver and gold prices is a direct response to this. The prices ran up to artificial highs when people were looking for a store of value because they though the world economies may not survive. A lot of the issues have been fixed and are continually improving, so pm's are going to continue returning to historical normal levels. For you guys stacking, I hope you are in it for the long haul because you aren't going to see a return on that silver you purchased at $20+ an ounce until there is another giant recession.

 

[TheMastermind]

My DCA is currently around $10 per ounce. I'm trying to drive that down as much as possible through CRH. As long as the current spot price is above my DCA, it's all gravy.

 

[Mackaydon]

One of my local coin dealers said he's preparing to jump back in when silver hits the $12 range.
Don.....
PS: Coincidentally, here's a discussion about $12 silver:

 

[LooseChange]

Don't forget about another opportunity that could be coming. If the gold to silver ratio goes over 70 (it's 68 now), convert all of your investment physical gold to physical silver. Then, next time the gold to silver ratio goes below 50, convert all of you physical silver to physical gold. Repeat every time the ratio goes out of range 50-70. If you can find a dealer or private party with tight margins, use 65 and 55 as your thresholds.

You can grow your PM holdings regardless of spot price and regardless of available cash.

 

[ArkieBassMan]

Don't forget about another opportunity that could be coming. If the gold to silver ratio goes over 70 (it's 68 now), convert all of your investment physical gold to physical silver. Then, next time the gold to silver ratio goes below 50, convert all of you physical silver to physical gold. Repeat every time the ratio goes out of range 50-70. If you can find a dealer or private party with tight margins, use 65 and 55 as your thresholds.

You can grow your PM holdings regardless of spot price and regardless of available cash.

I would love to do this, but no one around here will trade anywhere close to "even." They want 120%+ of spot for theirs while giving me ~50% of spot for mine.

 

[LooseChange]

I would love to do this, but no one around here will trade anywhere close to "even." They want 120%+ of spot for theirs while giving me ~50% of spot for mine.

Exactly. To work, the margin must be slim.

Right now, APMEX is buying random year AGEs at $1245.50 and selling at $1275.50 (2.5% margin). Buy Gold Online | Buy Gold American Eagles | APMEX.com
They are buying random year ASEs at $19.65 and selling at $20.84 (5% margin). Buy Silver Online | Buy American Silver Eagles | APMEX.com

So, 1oz fine US AU would get you 60oz fine US AG.
When the ratio is reversed, it will require 55oz of fine US AG to get 1oz of fine US AU (assuming the margins hold). However, you generally fair better when trading down if you change medium (ie trade AU Krugs for ASE when gold is high, trade silver rounds for AGE when silver is high).

The trick is shopping around to ensure that shipping/insurance, etc doesn't kill the deal.

 

[Avago]

Anybody who is in the CRH hobby to accrue silver as a growth investment will be sorely disappointed. In inflation-adjusted dollars, the average silver price over the past hundred years seems to be maybe $7-10/oz, with the aforementioned blips scattered along the way. Silver or other PMs are NOT a growth investment, but they merely serve as a hedge against inflation, storing real value and minimizing your exposure to the devaluation of paper currency. Of course that all goes out the window during financial panic, as seen in the most recent crisis. Be assured that the inflation and popping of the U.S.' bubble economy will happen again and cause another rush to save-haven PMs.

That being said, today, every time I pull a 90% half dollar out of circulation that I paid 50 cents for I am instantly making over a 1000% return on investment by converting clad to silver. If silver prices decline to $3/oz. I will still double my investment.

 

[fistfulladirt]

DCA'ing is a joke, as I've found over the last couple years. The dollar is strong and silver will drop even more.

Try and catch the knife, what happens, you get burned, cut. Unless you are young.

 

[redcobra8u]

Currently $17.79 down another .73

I am so glad I sold my hoard when it was climbing into the 30's. I remember a guy buying the 3 100 oz bars I sold at $32....wonder if he regrets it. In my opinion, anytime silver is above $15, it's a gift.

 

[foofighters]

DCA'ing is a joke, as I've found over the last couple years. The dollar is strong and silver will drop even more.

Try and catch the knife, what happens, you get burned, cut. Unless you are young.

i may not be young, but my kids are.

Silver and gold are insurance, no different than your homeowners.

Wish I had all the money I give those crooks;.

 

[SilverFace]

It's really not that hard to track or figure out. It's the same market fundamentals that I have been arguing with you guys about on here for months. The price of gold and silver is returning to historical normal prices following the insanity of the financial meltdown and ensuing recession. The thing that happened this past week is that the fed announced that they are going to continue and increase the pace at which they taper quantitative easing. They also stated that they are going to leave interest rates where they are in the short term, but as the markets continue to improve they are going to begin raising interest rates. The drop in silver and gold prices is a direct response to this. The prices ran up to artificial highs when people were looking for a store of value because they though the world economies may not survive. A lot of the issues have been fixed and are continually improving, so pm's are going to continue returning to historical normal levels. For you guys stacking, I hope you are in it for the long haul because you aren't going to see a return on that silver you purchased at $20+ an ounce until there is another giant recession.

The economy is not improving at all. In fact the current economy is the worse its ever been thanks to the Fed's artificially low interest rates and cheap money policy. The only thing "fixed" in this economy are the artificially low interest rates that the Fed can never raise. Yellen says that there will be a "considerable amount of time" between the ending of QE and the first rate hike. That considerable amount of time is infinity because this artificial economy is completely addicted to QE and 0% interest rates. The economy is overdo for a cyclical recession and when that happens the Fed will be forced to increase QE once again because they cant lower interest rates any lower than they are now. And the Fed now has over 4 trillion in treasuries and mortgage backed securities on its balance sheet that it cant possibly unload.

I understand exactly whats going on and I choose to live in reality and not believe the lies and propaganda from the Fed. When and if the Fed is ever able to get rid of the 4-5 trillion on its balance sheet and raise interest rates without creating a sovereign debt and currency crisis then I will admit that I've been wrong. But that just aint gonna happen because it cant. All this artificial economic stimulus and historical amounts of growing debt has made the fundamentals for owning PMs better than at any time in world history.

H$H!

 

[fish on!]

The economy is not improving at all. In fact the current economy is the worse its ever been thanks to the Fed's artificially low interest rates and cheap money policy. The only thing "fixed" in this economy are the artificially low interest rates that the Fed can never raise. Yellen says that there will be a "considerable amount of time" between the ending of QE and the first rate hike. That considerable amount of time is infinity because this artificial economy is completely addicted to QE and 0% interest rates. The economy is overdo for a cyclical recession and when that happens the Fed will be forced to increase QE once again because they cant lower interest rates any lower than they are now. And the Fed now has over 4 trillion in treasuries and mortgage backed securities on its balance sheet that it cant possibly unload.

I understand exactly whats going on and I choose to live in reality and not believe the lies and propaganda from the Fed. When and if the Fed is ever able to get rid of the 4-5 trillion on its balance sheet and raise interest rates without creating a sovereign debt and currency crisis then I will admit that I've been wrong. But that just aint gonna happen because it cant. All this artificial economic stimulus and historical amounts of growing debt has made the fundamentals for owning PMs better than at any time in world history.

H$H!

Ok, then continue "wondering why the price of silver is dropping like a rock". It was a pretty simple cause/effect situation last week. They announced an end to QE and a more aggressive outlook on higher interest rates and the markets responded by buying up stocks and dumping gold and silver. Keep listening to your doomsayers with your head in the sand. I hope they will take care of you when you take a bath on silver. I know you think that you are one of the ones in the "know" and you don't follow the masses of "sheeple" that listen to the machine. I think you should really look at the historical inflation adjusted gold silver charts. What you are saying simply has no basis in reality. What we are seeing right now is gold and silver prices that are moving back to historically normal levels after a time of recession and fear. It would have made a lot of sense to buy up a ton of gold prior to the highs. You can buy up a ton of silver and gold now and, yes, you will eventually be able to sell for a profit during the next period of financial unrest, but history dictates that this is most likely to happen 20 or 30 years from now. You would be much better served by investing in a more traditional investment class.

 

[jeff of pa]

I'm still waiting for 1971 - 1973 Prices
(by '74 prices were outrageous for silver)
then you will see me Buying one Pound Rounds



if I can get them without a premium that is.

otherwise I'll keep digging them & giving them to my Nephew for XMas

 

[Mackaydon]

A couple of years ago, as silver approached $50, I dumped everything.
Today, I await $12 and then will buy back in.
True, the price may never reach $12 within a few years, but I can wait--and I'll teach my kids to wait.
Don.....

 

[SilverFace]

I understand that my "opinion" about economics, money and investing is very much in the minority. But the general consensus on finance and investing is nearly always wrong. During the housing bubble no one believed or wanted to hear rising home prices would ever end. And it was the same during the Nasdaq bubble 15 years ago. Now we have an ever growing bond market bubble and currency bubble that is much bigger than both those previous bubbles combined. The problem is the Fed and the government cant let this bubble pop without completely destroying the economy. So they have to keep trying to delay the inevitable as long as possible while making the economy worse and worse and the bubble bigger and bigger.

I can see the con game that's going on now - and it cant last much longer. Pretty soon everyone in this country is going to get a hard dose of economic reality. But I choose to face reality now and try and be as prepared as possible for the economic crisis that's coming and not wait until its too late.

 

[Avago]

I'm glad the crystal ball says the next financial crisis will be in 20-30 years, I'm very reassured now. There's no way of knowing that. Markets are irrational, with investors seeking to maximize profit, grow and grow and grow and GET OUT before the bubble bursts. And when has the market ever really reflected the actual state of the economy? Well, after a crisis for sure when the jig is up.

I don't think anybody is wondering why the price of silver is falling today. It is generally inversely related to market sentiment. DJIA is up 195% since the 2008 crisis. We've gone over two years without a 10% market correction which is well above the historical average. You can call the silver decline a return to historical normal levels, sure. But market sentiment hardly ever reflects reality. It's about maximizing profits, and we're pumped full of cheap QE money and cheap leveraged corporate loans.

The currency crisis is real, though I am of the opinion that while the U.S. is certainly fighting to keep the dollar afloat, there's yet a ton of fighting left to be done. Will it happen tomorrow? No. But it will happen.

 

[LooseChange]

I believe that there is no doubt that the dollar as we know it will fail in an avalanche. When that happens, the powers-that-be will hit the reset button. It has been done many times before. Mexico did it recently as did Russia. In the 1930s, the US effectively did it when they stole everyone's gold.

When that happens, many will feel pain. The crooks in charge will take what they need from anyone who has something that can be easily taken. Then, there will be a fresh start.

What everyone needs to understand is that everything other than your tangible physical possessions is just a promise. Your bank account is just a promise. Your 401k is just a promise. Your IRA, your stock holdings, your whole life policy, your pension, your social security, your health insurance, your stash of FRNs, all promises. How much faith do you have in those who've made the promises? Personally, I have very little faith. I consider most of those promise makers to be the least trust worthy vermin on the planet. Our leaders as a group are corrupt, selfish crooks with zero integrity. The days of patriotism at the highest levels are gone.

It is for these reasons that I hold physical PMs. My PM hoard is insurance. I primarily invest and my plan is to retire on USD accrued from investment. If the rickety sham of the current system holds on for 35 more years, It'll be someone else's problem.

None of that changes what many here have said and what many here cannot accept. Silver is going to $12 (or less) and gold to $800 (or less) - in terms of the USD. Someday, it will very likely be extremely valuable in terms of buying/barter power (at that point, who cares what its value is in terms of USD? - USD is so abstract anyway.).