✅ SOLVED Small twisted "sword"

[Coach Stack]

This are my finds from yesterday's hunt. The "sword" is at the bottom. It was 2-3" inches down which is about the same depth where the bullets were found and with in a few feet of them. (I am not suggesting it is a related item) the area is near an old stage coach line.

 

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[smokeythecat]

Broken badge from a CW kepi. Nice find.

 

[Coach Stack]

On a scale of 1-10 how sure would you be on that? I need to do some research I guess. I found it in near Colorado Springs, I have found the correct era bullets there but wow, if that is actually a CW relic? That would be a bucketlister I didn't know was on the list lol,

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

9.3

 

[steelheadwill]

Nice work Smokey and Charlie

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Smokey the Cat did the work.

I just made sure it really happened . . . with an image. ;-)

 

[Coach Stack]

Thanks everyone, I'm trying to not get overly excited but damn, A Civil War relic in Colorado. That's a one in a million find for me.

 

[Phishfarmer]

Nice finds! I'm sure many soldiers drifted west after the war with little but their uniform left to their name. Mining out west was a big draw. Just my take.

Luke 15: “Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp, sweep the house, and search?"

 

[RustyGold]

Wow! That's an awesome find and great ID guys.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Super, Super Find - Wow!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_in_the_American_Civil_War

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Lest anybody misinterpret the following, let me say up front that I believe Coach Stack's find is indeed a civil war era US Cavalry crossed-sabers hat insignia. (By the way, it is the Enlisted-men's version... the Officer version was smaller and fancier.)

That being said... here's some free friendly advice from a longtime civil war Insignia dealer. We must be careful not to jump to an ID conclusion when we see a crossed-sabers insignia (or especially, just a piece of one). As the information below says, the size of the US Cavalry crossed-sabers insignia shrank several times after the end of the civil war. Careful size-measurement, and comparison of even very small details (such as the thickness of the scabbard drag-guard, and type of attachment loop-or-pin-or-stud on the insignia's back) is crucial for determining the correct ID, and correct time-period.

The following info is from this webpage:
History of U.S. Cavalry Insignia
In 1872 the size of the enlisted cavalry insignia was decreased and the insignia was worn on the front of the forage cap as seen in the 5th cavalry soldier. From 1881 to 1903 a cavalry dress helmet was worn and bore an eagle with crossed sabers and a shield. In 1896 a new style of enlisted hat insignia was introduced of a slightly smaller size again and with a screw post and retaining nut in the back. Prior to that time insignia were attached by loops of wire or wire prongs soldered to the back of the insignia. Officer's hat insignia continued to be embroidered crossed sabers until 1895 when the forage cap was discontinued and the arms of the United States was worn by officers of all branches. At the same time the former hat insignia was transferred to the collar in a somewhat smaller form and preceded by either a U.S. or in the case of the National Guard the initials of the state. The crossed sabers worn on Theodore Roosevelt's collar during the Spanish American War is an example. This basic formula for officer's uniforms continued up to the discontinuation of the standing collar in 1926. In the case of enlisted men it continued until collar disks were adopted in 1910. The trend was toward a smaller insignia over time.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Other reasons which support Coach Stack's cavary-insignia piece being a civil war era one are the bullets he found with it. I see a .58-caliber muzzleloader 3-groove Minie bullet, several .52 Sharps Rifle/Carbine bullets, a US Watervliet Arsenal bullet for .44 revolvers, a Bartholow's Patent bullet for .44 revolvers, and what appears to be an unfired but damaged .52 Spencer bullet. Among the spent cartridge-casings are several .44 Henry Repeating Rifle casing, distinguished by the "double firing pin" marks on their flat base. The longer casings may be Sharps-&-Hankins casings.

All of those types are civl war era, and those types (except the Henry) quickly fell out of favor a few years after the war's end due to the advent of metallic-cartidges for revolvers, Sharps Rifles, and Springfield Rifles.

 

[Coach Stack]

TheCannonBallGuy, Thanks, I was and still am very cautious about what i found. One of the reasons I like tnet are guys like you. I found my first Henry casing months ago and I had no idea what it was, I found a post you had on here and was able to Id it. I was able 80% confidence Id most of my bullets but could you tell me which one is the Watervilet Arsenal? (I have no idea) a couple of months ago I found a Sage Ammunition Works "Drop" (I'll add a picture of that one) in the same area.

Thank you for your help.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Coach, that Sage Ammunition Works MARKED cartridge-casing is a very cool find, quite rare. Congratulations.

By your request, here is a photo showing the .44-caliber Watervliet Arsenal Colt Pattern bullet. I'll include a photo of another variety of .44 Watervliet Colt which has "crosshatching" serration marks.

 

[Coach Stack]

TheCannonballGuy, I am posting this on an old thread because I trust your knowledge on the older bullets. I was looking through my lead and I realized I had 2 more old bullets I found in the same area I found the stuff I posted earlier on this page. I did a few hours of research trying to nail down what they were. What is your opinion on these? I used a caliper and here is what I got. The 1st unknown dia .457 height .761 The 2nd dia .445 height .674



Thanks for looking