Spanish Army, Conquistador Armour, Weapons and Artifacts that have been found.

[Grimnar]

Hi,
The stories of Spanish and Conquistador armour, weapons and relics that have been found in mountain caves and desert trails with or without the original owners remains still attached has fascinated me for years, but being in Australia the chances of stumbling upon one of these discoveries would be neigh on impossible or as we say here 'rare as hens teeth'.

In all your experiences has anyone here ever come across anything mentioned above, weather it be in person, a story from a friend of a friend or read a story in print.

I am most interested to hear what people have to say, as working in my profession I find that handling artifacts that belonged to a real person in time is worth more than the gold they were mining or protecting.

Cheers
Matt

 

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[Siegfried Schlagrule]

Spanish armor has been found and displayed in museums in southern california and the american southwest. Would expect those items to be relatively common in Mexico and South America. I've searched for but never found a spanish helmet. If I found a breastplate I'd trade it for a helmet. siegfried schlagrule

 

[Grimnar]

Thank you for your reply Siegfried. There is just something about the Comb Morion that would make it perfect for a study or den.

I was just going over some of my paperwork(I bought a new filling cabinet), and I found a story that dates from the 1930's, that relates to a discovery of the skeletal remains of what was a Spanish soldier in a cave on an island in the far north of Australia. No one knew how it got there, but the armour and the sword dated the remains to the 16th century.

Maybe a member of a landing party or a survivor of a exploration vessel looking for new territory to conquer in the name of Spain?

As far as I have found no one knows what happened to it or if there was anything else found.
I still do think that it warrents a little further digging.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I don't know about the demographics down in Mexico, in the 1600 to early 1800s, but in the SW United States, and CA, it would be a needle in a haystack. The entire Spanish (European) population of CA, for example, even up to the 1820s, was measured only in the low 1000s. Even in the 21 missions, each was staffed with scanty presences of perhaps 1 or 2 priests, a motley handful of soldiers, some servents who came up with them from the old world, etc.... What "town" (evolving around mission locations) "villages" or "pueblos" which did exist outside the mission and presidio's walls, had whopping populations of 200 to 500-ish? (San Jose, San Diego, Monterey, etc...). The same was true of the mission attempts in NM, AZ, etc.... They were very rag-tag low-population, etc.... Later on, more civilians settlers arrived, but now you're talking into the Mexican era and into the western/US era). But that earlier era to which you ask about, to find a "suit of armor" just "sitting on a cave floor", is the stuff dreams are made of.

You know how it is, in our hobby, that the older/farther back you go in time, that naturally, it's harder and harder to find stuff, right? Ie.: barbers are harder than mercs, seateds are harder than barbers, bust and reales and harder to find than seated, and on and on it goes, right? Because the further you go back, the lower the populations (as I say, for the western US, dunno about Mexico, which may have been well-settled by then) & more time has passed for development, disappearance, etc... All the same reasons why a bust coin is a needle in a haystack compared to a merc. dime, is also gonna apply to the things you ask about.

I mean, what "cave", in this day and age of hikers and heavy population, is just going to "magically had an entrance that has never been seen before now"?

I've found spanish reales and buttons though

 

[Grimnar]

Tom,
I agree wholeheartedly with your explanation. I do believe its just like our gold Sovereign here in Oz, they are neigh on impossible to find because of what they were worth and who had access to them, it tended to be, back in the day, if you had one, you held onto it for grim death, until you spent it.

On the original subject: In alto of the books I have read concerning varies quests and searches for lost treasure in the states, mentions are occasionally made of the discovery of remains of Spanish soldiers still in their last earthly clothing, poking out beneath the sand of a canyon floor or wedged in a crevasse after stumbling on rough and uneven ground. Of all the turmoil, fighting and death that was the reality of life as a soldier in the new world, some of their remains have had to be found and documented.


Its funny I was doing some research on a totally unrelated subject and I came upon a story which I believe is well documented, of an Indian named Iron Jacket, whom enemy and ally alike though possessed some supernatural power, that protected him from harm whilst in battle. Turns out he wore underneath his clothing, an old piece of Spanish armour.


Its funny how stuff pops up when you are not looking for it.

Cheers

 

[Grimnar]

By all means Tom, show your artifacts, or post a link to where the pics are!

 

[gollum]

Hey Grimnar,

Here are some pics. The first are from an old magazine article. Won't say where they are, because there is more, and its' one of my babies. Next, are some of the coins from a Spanish cache I found several years ago.

Best-Mike

 

[gollum]

!~~~~

 

[Grimnar]

Gollum,
Those pictures are fantastic, and I can appreciate why you would want to keep the location a secret, what I wouldn't give for one of those babies.

Two questions:
What is the gentlemen holding in the first picture? Is it a pistol?
When was the discovery made? Judging by the ET I presume it was after WW2.

Boy are those coins beautiful, must have made your week when you found them!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning Grimmer: One of the main reasons that most of those parts and remains are found in caves or buried, is that the Spanish were extremely harsh masters. If an Indian was found with a knife, or any part of Spanish armament, he was simply executed and many of the mature men in the area also. It was not uncommon for natives in the hundreds being executed or having their right hands or foot cut off for the death one Spaniard. Hence the evidence was hidden.

This was how a handful of Spaniards held complete, and absolute control over vast numbers of Indians. This was considered normal practice for most of the world. They were not nice people in those days.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[gollum]

Early 1970s.

The item in the first picture is a Spanish Crossbow.

Best-Mike

 

[Kyle PA]

Early 1970s.

The item in the first picture is a Spanish Crossbow.

Best-Mike

Outstanding recoveries, Mike! Were they found in Southern California?

 

[gollum]

The armor was recovered in Mexico (not by me), while the coins were found in a rocked up mine in SoCal.

Best-Mike

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Grimnar, as far as stumbling across stories of "suits of armor" found with "a body still in there", you gotta remember that treasure stories get emblished over time. If i had a dollar for everyone who stops me while detecting, to tell me of their "sure-fired-treasure" lead, I'd be rich A story starts with a kernal of truth, and after a few years, gets turned into a whopper. I've even seen this psychology develop within the space of a week:

A friend of mine, during an old-town sidewalk demolition project, found what he thought was an antique gold amulet owl-shaped pendant thing. He showed it to a few of the construction workers who had let him hunt there. He mused to them "it might be gold, and the eyes of the owl look like jewels. It's probably very antique anyhow", etc.... That night he tested it, and it turns out it was not real gold, and the eyelets of the owl were just glass. About a week later, he was back on the same side-walk project, and this time, a new construction worker saw him detecting. After watching my friend for awhile, he finally got up the courage to come over and talk. He started telling my friend about how "the week before, this guy was here and found all sorts of old gold and coins, blah blah blah". My friend listened, and was thinking to himself, "gee that's funny, I've been on this project almost every day since it started, and I didn't see anyone else out here finding things like that! All I've gotten is a scruffy few barbers, a seated, some V's, etc..." As he listened the construction worker spin his "iron-clad" tale, the worker mentioned that one of the items this "other fellow" had found, was a solid gold owl pendant that was hundreds of years old!. At THAT, my friend realized the worker was talking about him So he corrected the worker and told him "no, it wasn't 'armfuls' of coins, it was just a half-dozen or so. And no, the pendant wasn't solid gold, nor was it valuable", etc.. But the worker would not be dissuaded. He knew for a fact that his story was true, because he had heard it from first hand witnesses who had been there the previous week. Doh!

You see how that works Grimnar? The human mind wants so hard to believe in the "lead" (lest you "miss out"), that suppositions turn out to be believed without question or scrutiny. So too is it with cache stories, suits of armor stories, etc... Even when it's supposedly "first-hand", you read more deeply, and it's "someone who told someone who told.... " etc... Or even if it's old microfilm newspaper clippings, you have to ask yourself "where did the reporter get his info?" By taking the word or whomever he was interviewing, which is subject to whims of interpretation, etc.....

Yes there are caches that are really found, and probably have been suits of armor found in a cave or canyon before (that just magically were never seen or explored before now). But you have to keep in perspective, that all it takes is one to be found, before it is morphed into many many other variations, rumors, legends, etc.....

For pix of the Spanish era coins, buttons, relics, etc... that I have found, check out the Kinzli California forum. To get to the main page, you have to sign up. But it's easy (just pick a name and a password). Once there, just do a search under all my posts for the past several years, and you'll see many pix of reales, buttons, etc.....

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning Tom: I have to agree with the basis of your post. Since I have been guilty of inadvertently starting some myself.

Once I went to a marshy zone to look for a treasure. I quickly established that there was none in our area, and so told the men with me. They were extremely insistant that there was, so I merely retired to a shady spot and watched them dig.

Being bored and since the ground was of a damp adobe - similar to modeling clay - I commenced to play with it moulding different figures, erotic of course heheh.

After a while, I remembered an almost uncirculated 8 Reales coin that I had from another treasure that I had found recently with the aid of a "Fire" and was carrying for luck. So, I took it out of it's covering and commenced to make impressions of it on both sides in the Adobe. I soon had a small pile of impressions of the 8 Reales around me when the men finally accepted defeat and we left..

Three weeks later one on the men burst into my home yelling you (*XXXXXX) you said that there was no treasure there sheesh, after we left, others seeing our work went there and kept on digging and found it, a huge cache of 8 Reales.

Naturally I was a bit uncomfortable and embarrassed, so I asked him to recheck and let us know who they were, what they had found, and how much.

A few weeks later he showed up and proudly produced pieces of dried Adobe with the clear impressions of 8 Reales on them. my playthings. Naturally, I could never convince any of them that they were mine, not the marks of buried coins.

The story continues to this day, but for some reason, no one knows who the lucky treasure hunters were or how much they found. heheh.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[hmmm]

i have been told about a cave with 12 men whearing full body armor, the guy that told me about it went back and said " it's all gone". reciently i was told of another cave that has skelitons , some antropologists went in and took measurments of the skulls , they said " they are all spanish" they did not have permits so it is not documented. the evidance is here, but the will to expose them is not.

 

[OPUS1]

Hmmm,

You know Grandma does like you talking about bones and dead people. Be a good boy and brush Grandma's hair.

 

[moniangel46]

I realize this is a very old post from you. I am looking to corroborate a story my mother was told by her girlfriend's father in the 1950's. The father was a treasure hunter and ran a trading post in St. John, AZ. He searched the gullies after rain storms and discovered a cave that had opened up with artifacts and two complete Spanish armor sets. Can you or anyone give me information on this story? I would so appreciate it. Moniangel

 

[Conquistador1539]

Matt,

You are right! Finding something with a famous Spanish Conquistador's name on it is worth more than all the gold they could possibly carry. In the footsteps of Hernando de Soto he never did find any fabulous treasure in La Florida like that of the Inca in Peru. But he did leave behind artifacts. If you are lucky enough to find them. So far I am the only person in the world to ever discover anything in North America with a Spanish Conquistador's name on it. As far as archaeological evidence goes. It put Missouri on the Cover of Lost Treasure Magazine April 2003.

 

[Conquistador1539]

Yes! There was a date to go along with the name? What Spanish Conquistador landed in La Florida where this piece of Spanish Silver was found with the year 1539 on it? Yours Truly, Hernando!