Spanish Missions

markmar

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Hi Mike

What you see in the GE image is the real old mission , and I will not post the coords in open forum . Like you wrote , there are many old structures , and maybe your friend have believed found what would been the old Tumacacori mission .
From what I have understood , the old timers treasure hunters , always want to brag how they have found something worth from a famous map or from a famous story . Could be , but sometimes the reallity is other , and you have to know the truth to can make the difference .
 

autofull

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i have always felt that if you built a mission you were also digging for metals at the same time. just seemed to justify the time ya put into it. do you feel that they really just wanted to convert the locals everywhere they went.
 

markmar

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Hey Markmar, please post the coords for what you think is the original Tumacacori Mission. I know exactly where the actual site is. Been there several times. Just because there are some old rock walls doesn't make it the old mission site. There are a ton of OLD rock corrals and adobes down there. A buddy of mine has lived there for the last twenty or so years.

Mike

I will give you a clue . The old mission site is about 1140 yards south of the " Puntos surgorivas " from the Tumacacori treasure map .

puntos surgorivas.jpg
 

gollum

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i have always felt that if you built a mission you were also digging for metals at the same time. just seemed to justify the time ya put into it. do you feel that they really just wanted to convert the locals everywhere they went.


That had nothing to do with why and where they built most missions. Missions were built approximately 30 miles apart because that was about the distance a small mule train would travel in one day (how the Padres usually traveled). They were typically placed where they were because it was along a well established trail in an area. They were oriented so the morning sun would shine in the open doors.

Mike
 

Holyground

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Rudo Ensayo, among others, shows that most missions had mines. Any that didn't were usually considered Visitas, a place to rest safely for the night during travel. The Lost Santa Catalina Mission seems to have started out 30 miles from the Santa Catalina Mountains and over the years moved closer and closer to the Santa Catalina (Iron Door Mine), and further away from the mine known today as the Silver Bell mine. It was destroyed by the revolt so that was inevitable, however, it did move close to a safer mining area, Tucson. I can show you the Monuments near the Silver Bell. I belive a Missions placement had two primary prerequisites, Gold or Silver deposits, plenty of Indians to work them and next, water and good tillable soil so the Jesuits (Indian Slaves) could grow plenty of food to feed themselves and to sell to the miners and whatever deal they cut with the soldiers. Since the Jesuits usually paid the soldiers for their strong arm, they probably got a good deal on food. A well fed soldier is a happy soldier afterall.
 

markmar

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I will give you a clue . The old mission site is about 1140 yards south of the " Puntos surgorivas " from the Tumacacori treasure map .

View attachment 1648111

Another clue for the old Tumacacori mission , is about 1400 yards NW of the " Monumento , puntos para direccion " from the Tumacacori treasure map .

Monumento, puntos para direccion.jpg
 

Holyground

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Sorry but your comment is not true, I have read that book many times

So, you read it many times? Were you aware that Nentvig didn't even visit most of the places he wrote about? He mentioned many mines near Missions. A lot of his information is incomplete. You have to get it from other sources as well. They even had mines at the mission in Baja. Joseph Och tells us the Jesuits ran their Indians like slaves to work the mines and paid the conquistadors to control them. That is the truth of the matter.
 

alan m

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So, you read it many times? Were you aware that Nentvig didn't even visit most of the places he wrote about? He mentioned many mines near Missions. A lot of his information is incomplete. You have to get it from other sources as well. They even had mines at the mission in Baja. Joseph Och tells us the Jesuits ran their Indians like slaves to work the mines and paid the conquistadors to control them. That is the truth of the matter.
Again .....not true, the Spanish worked the indians in the mines, not the Jesuits
the Jesuits worked the indians in the fields.... and... if the jesuits had mines, which I think they did, they would never admit to it, especially in writing. Juan Nentvig barely mentions mines or mining in Rudo Ensayo, only four pages in the index refer to mines or mining and the comments on those four pages are scarce and non descript.
Joseph Och mentions gold silver and mining as well as refining in his book, however, he draws the line and does not state that the missions or Jesuits had mines or controlled indians as slaves in any mine.
in fact, I have not read any book, letter or aside note about the Jesuits conducting any mining...if you have an actual source, please share it, i.e. publication, author and page.
 

Holyground

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No, you're right, the Jesuits never admit to anything. That's why Polzer went to Mexico to reclaim a lost Jesuit mine. My biggest proof, unfortunatly, I can't share. So you are right. You win.
 

Holyground

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12823486_528285640687151_3814063049494118101_o-1.jpg

Hey Fred, what's that?

Oh, it's just a Jesuit Priest looking through a Mountain Door.

A Mountain Door? Really? What's he see through that door Fred?

His very own Gold Mine.

Really? I'm Catholic, I don't believe that. I believe only what the Holy Father tells me.

Well, I'm off to drop my sons off with the Priest. He's going to teach them a few things, C-YA!
 

Holyground

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priest004.jpg

What's that Fred?

Oh, that's a Jesuit in drag.

Really?

Yea. He's actually in costume because his outfit is purely designed to be subterfuge and symbolic of something completely different than what you are supposed to understand.

Really? Why?

Because the Jesuits got tired of running a field crew of insubordinate Indians and decided to get in on the real action...GOLD! They stashed a bunch of treasure in a very remote hiding place so the King wouldn't find out, and they had to make this map so they could find it again after their suppression.

Wow, that's pretty sneaky Fred.

Yes, they were very sneaky. Most people still don't know the naughty things they did, and many will never know. Oh well, the spoils go to the victors.

Yeah, you're right Fred, the meek will inherit the dirt, the wise will get the gold!
 

Holyground

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2b05626bb9709d6758e3237d917af5dfca421047.jpg

What's that Fred?

Oh, that's a Spanish Map Rock.

Really? Why didn't the Spanish do it like the Jesuits, you know, a Priest in drag?

The Spanish wouldn't get caught in drag. They just weren't that way. No, they put a Map Rock out in the wide open for every fool to find, then come along a blow it up or tun it over or chippier it beyond reading. The thing is, these are out there all over. The only problem with them is that you have to know how to decode them. Most people are not smart enough.

Wow, that's too bad Fred.

No, that too good for the few of us that do know how.

So why don't you tell me how to do it Fred?

Because then you will be as smart as me. We can't have that, now can we?

No, I suppose not Fred.

Good, now get along to church boy. They got some learning's for ya.
 

JohnWhite

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View attachment 1648752

What's that Fred?

Oh, that's a Spanish Map Rock.

Really? Why didn't the Spanish do it like the Jesuits, you know, a Priest in drag?

The Spanish wouldn't get caught in drag. They just weren't that way. No, they put a Map Rock out in the wide open for every fool to find, then come along a blow it up or tun it over or chippier it beyond reading. The thing is, these are out there all over. The only problem with them is that you have to know how to decode them. Most people are not smart enough.

Wow, that's too bad Fred.

No, that too good for the few of us that do know how.

So why don't you tell me how to do it Fred?

Because then you will be as smart as me. We can't have that, now can we?

No, I suppose not Fred.

Good, now get along to church boy. They got some learning's for ya.

Hell...My son could have drawn a better looking map when he was in preschool Holy...I believe that rock of yours looks a lot like something Travis or one of his followers would have perpetrated for those who believed what they were pedaling...lol...

I hope Fred and others around here finds it as amusing as I do...

Ed T
 

markmar

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Holyground

I saw , you have attached the stone maps to the Jesuits . This is not an accurate fact . The Stone maps have something written on them , a coded word which is used in Spanish treasure maps , and with that coded word , the maps show how they are for Spanish ( Spaniards not Spanish priests ) treasure and Spanish in origin .
That word change almost the whole conception about these maps .
 
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Holyground

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Holyground

I saw , you have attached the stone maps to the Jesuits . This is not an accurate fact . The Stone maps have something written on them , a coded word which is used in Spanish treasure maps , and with that coded word , the maps show how they are for Spanish ( Spaniards not Spanish priests ) treasure and Spanish in origin .
That word change almost the whole conception about these maps .

No they don't. You may think they do but you are mistaken, with all due respect. Besides, Did the Spaniards also mispell the different words on the Stones too? No, Jesuits from all over the world did. Also, the most important parts were lightly scratched in later, by those with a need to know. Strictly Military protocol by the Sword Arm of the Catholic Church. The Noble Polzer hath told you that the Stone Maps are fakes. Polzer was an honorable man, but a Jesuit, as far as his honor could carry him in his loyalty. So, if you know the answers, tell us where the lost mine is. Tell us now.
 

RockyGoltra

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You're right about that...I DON'T know where this site is located.

I have, however, known where the LDM was located since I was a kid...it has since been covered over and hidden from view:

View attachment 1638296
how can you deduce that it was the ldm without matching its ore signature with that of known dutch ore? I would never consider that someone found it unless they could show wire gold in quartz and chrysocolla
 

Juiced8

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View attachment 1648752

What's that Fred?

Oh, that's a Spanish Map Rock.

Really? Why didn't the Spanish do it like the Jesuits, you know, a Priest in drag?

The Spanish wouldn't get caught in drag. They just weren't that way. No, they put a Map Rock out in the wide open for every fool to find, then come along a blow it up or tun it over or chippier it beyond reading. The thing is, these are out there all over. The only problem with them is that you have to know how to decode them. Most people are not smart enough.

Wow, that's too bad Fred.

No, that too good for the few of us that do know how.

So why don't you tell me how to do it Fred?

Because then you will be as smart as me. We can't have that, now can we?

No, I suppose not Fred.

Good, now get along to church boy. They got some learning's for ya.
That was carved by a couple of cattle ranchers kids back when their dad was freeranging the valley west of the Sierra Estrellas
 

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