Spencer Carbine Bullets Excavated from the Red River Campaign

[Red River Campaign 1864]

A first for me!

After a few hours of relic hunting, got a real strong signal, I started to dig and only got down about two inches so thought .... must be another shot gun shell! But to my surprise..... delicate to the touch, I could tell I had something old!

The first one came out of the ground almost complete, only missing a small portion of the cartridge! The second was found only 30 feet away!

The site was used by the Union Cavalry during the Battle of Pleasant Hill, Louisiana, to set up a ambush of the Confederate Army! These two Spencer Carbine bullets never completed their mission on April 9th, 1864!!

Below is the before and after my attempt at restoration! Fun to see the 1864 gun powder still in the cartridge!


A little history lesson for those who care to read~

The Spencer repeating rifle was a manually operated lever-action, seven shot repeating rifle produced in the United States by three manufacturers between 1860 and 1869. Designed by Christopher Spencer, it was fed with cartridges from a tube magazine in the rifle’s buttstock.

The Spencer repeating rifle was adopted by the Union Army, especially by the cavalry, during the American Civil War, but did not replace the standard issue muzzle-loading rifled muskets in use at the time. The Spencer carbine was a shorter and lighter version.

 

[Davers]

Great Job Man.

Documenting your History , & 2 nice Finds.

I can see the excitement on your face, "A good Natural High".

I have been blessed with Spencer finds 'even the cases never get old'

Yours look more fragile than the ones I have found but I was able to put one cartridge back together after dropping the Snuff case it was in; it was a clean break & it came out nice.

I would not likely try to reconstruct one of yours since you have only 2 , like you said likely not many more left , do try to find some more (I bet you will) lol

Many times they are in clusters .

You did a great job cleaning & displaying those priceless Red River Relics.

God Bless
Davers

 

[diggervet]

always love finding intact spencers, Great finds!

 

[peruna]

There are CW finds that are on the top deck, and this sure is one. Finding a fragile relic like that and getting it successfully out of the ground in (relative) one piece is a great achievement.

Nicely done!

 

[Red River Campaign 1864]

Documenting your History , & 2 nice Finds.

I can see the excitement on your face, "A good Natural High".

I have been blessed with Spencer finds 'even the cases never get old'

Yours look more fragile than the ones I have found but I was able to put one cartridge back together after dropping the Snuff case it was in; it was a clean break & it came out nice.

I would not likely try to reconstruct one of yours since you have only 2 , like you said likely not many more left , do try to find some more (I bet you will) lol

Many times they are in clusters .

You did a great job cleaning & displaying those priceless Red River Relics.

God Bless
Davers

Thanks Davers for the very kind words! After 40 plus years of relic hunting, I still get excited when I dig a 3 ringer so these two were a lifelong dream! Seen them in magazine articles and at relic shows but again, a first for me! Also, a first at restoration of these fragile relics.... learned a few new tips from seasoned pros on what to do next time! And.... I do hope there's many next times! Any tips you could share at reconstruction, stabilizing or restoration on Spencer or other cartridges would be great! Thanks again!! Take care my friend!

 

[Red River Campaign 1864]

always love finding intact spencers, Great finds!

Thanks my friend!

 

[Red River Campaign 1864]

There are CW finds that are on the top deck, and this sure is one. Finding a fragile relic like that and getting it successfully out of the ground in (relative) one piece is a great achievement.

Nicely done!

Thanks my friend for the very kind words! Greatly appreciated!

 

[Davers]

Thanks Davers for the very kind words! After 40 plus years of relic hunting, I still get excited when I dig a 3 ringer so these two were a lifelong dream! Seen them in magazine articles and at relic shows but again, a first for me! Also, a first at restoration of these fragile relics.... learned a few new tips from seasoned pros on what to do next time! And.... I do hope there's many next times! Any tips you could share at reconstruction, stabilizing or restoration on Spencer or other cartridges would be great! Thanks again!! Take care my friend!

Thanks Davers for the very kind words! After 40 plus years of relic hunting, I still get excited when I dig a 3 ringer so these two were a lifelong dream! Seen them in magazine articles and at relic shows but again, a first for me! Also, a first at restoration of these fragile relics.... learned a few new tips from seasoned pros on what to do next time! And.... I do hope there's many next times! Any tips you could share at reconstruction, stabilizing or restoration on Spencer or other cartridges would be great! Thanks again!! Take care my friend!

Hey Man.
I wanted to reply the other day , but had to go somewhere.

Back when I first found my Spencer's I posted in "cleaning & Preservation" A question on how to best stabilize , coat & what to use my complete Spencer Cartridges ( 8-out of 10 were complete but had cracks). Funny I don't think I ever got a decent reply & answered my own question.

Funny ! Being the procrastinator I am all but 2 are treated but I have found If you don't move them they will stay together pretty dang good once they dry out.

BYW Carrying them the mile or more out of the Woods in my backpack was always Fun

I only broke the 1 that I mentioned ; one day OCD / stressing over the broken Cartridge & felling 'froggy' I decided to try to reassemble the broken one .

As I stated it had a clean break, what I did was mixed up some JB Welds & applied some to the powder & all in the 2 halves , let it dry for a day or more ( after putting the 2 haves together , some JB welds expanded out of the crack but I was fit together perfect , laid it where it could not move . I think it was a few days later (it's been 3-4-years ago) I decided to look at how it came out.
I was amazed at how "Strong" the cartridge felt (I did not try to bend it or nothing ) but I got a Used but pretty new Drywall Sanding block 120 grit or so , & slowly started sanding the JB weld that overflowed from the 2 halves , ..Cool it was sanding off , then I decided to get the Dremel out (put on the best Sanding or grinding wheel I could find) then S-l-o-w-l-y grind ed / sanded off the extra JB-W ,being super careful not to touch the Brass ( to make it Shiny) ; it was kinda like surgery but it really did not take long with the dremel .

I got it as close to the cartridge as I could, I don't recall seeing any major defects in the cracked & fixed portion .
Then got to thinking about my coating , I wanted a clear coat or as clear as can be , I used Tung Oil on the broken cartridge being careful not to paint the White bullet portion + the Tung Oil is a kinda brown color 'It works well on Cooked Iron also'.

When it dried my OCD made me do a little sanding touch up (on the Oil 's thick 'Drip' spots' then just dabbed some more on with a Q-tip on the place or 2 I sanded.

It turned out great to my eye's & that says a-lot.

I grabbed another one of my 'Cracked' but complete cartridges from the same site & sprayed a poly-clear coat on it to strengthen it , it turned out nice as well , I decided not to coat the Non cracked Cartridges .

After the original 'Glue/ Weld ' together it still amazes me on how 'Strong' the cartridge was ....being able to sand & work on it with-out worrying to much about how I handled it.

I guess it really depends on just how strong the Brass still is after 150 + years .

I know pictures would help A-Ton on this post but I looked for the 2 treated pieces last night & did not find them , I saw them not long ago & will do my best to post a picture when I can , ASAP.

Some may say? Why so much work on a pretty common Spencer , ? Well they are not that common anymore & knowing the site it came from is Most important to me.
&
Like you after my 20 years of Relic Hunting each Bullet Fired or not is a Big Deal.

All this reminds me , I dug a 41 Wesson cartridge a few years ago , not a perfect / clean break but it's all there . I'd like to reconstruct that one some day as well ...Someday , Lord Willing 'maybe even at the old folks home' I'd be board then ill bet. lol

GL with yours (they look good Now ) & hope you can find another .Or 10 . lol

Sorry but I type a-lot of details .
Davers

 

[Sleepy]

Great find! Once I found all seven unfired rounds in a small area where they must have been dropped or came out of the tube magazine. Only a few of them were still held together due to the powder corroding them. It's getting harder and harder to find complete cartridges like that. The way you have them in the display case looks great.

 

[Red River Campaign 1864]

Hey Man.
I wanted to reply the other day , but had to go somewhere.

Back when I first found my Spencer's I posted in "cleaning & Preservation" A question on how to best stabilize , coat & what to use my complete Spencer Cartridges ( 8-out of 10 were complete but had cracks). Funny I don't think I ever got a decent reply & answered my own question.

Funny ! Being the procrastinator I am all but 2 are treated but I have found If you don't move them they will stay together pretty dang good once they dry out.

BYW Carrying them the mile or more out of the Woods in my backpack was always Fun

I only broke the 1 that I mentioned ; one day OCD / stressing over the broken Cartridge & felling 'froggy' I decided to try to reassemble the broken one .

As I stated it had a clean break, what I did was mixed up some JB Welds & applied some to the powder & all in the 2 halves , let it dry for a day or more ( after putting the 2 haves together , some JB welds expanded out of the crack but I was fit together perfect , laid it where it could not move . I think it was a few days later (it's been 3-4-years ago) I decided to look at how it came out.
I was amazed at how "Strong" the cartridge felt (I did not try to bend it or nothing ) but I got a Used but pretty new Drywall Sanding block 120 grit or so , & slowly started sanding the JB weld that overflowed from the 2 halves , ..Cool it was sanding off , then I decided to get the Dremel out (put on the best Sanding or grinding wheel I could find) then S-l-o-w-l-y grind ed / sanded off the extra JB-W ,being super careful not to touch the Brass ( to make it Shiny) ; it was kinda like surgery but it really did not take long with the dremel .

I got it as close to the cartridge as I could, I don't recall seeing any major defects in the cracked & fixed portion .
Then got to thinking about my coating , I wanted a clear coat or as clear as can be , I used Tung Oil on the broken cartridge being careful not to paint the White bullet portion + the Tung Oil is a kinda brown color 'It works well on Cooked Iron also'.

When it dried my OCD made me do a little sanding touch up (on the Oil 's thick 'Drip' spots' then just dabbed some more on with a Q-tip on the place or 2 I sanded.

It turned out great to my eye's & that says a-lot.

I grabbed another one of my 'Cracked' but complete cartridges from the same site & sprayed a poly-clear coat on it to strengthen it , it turned out nice as well , I decided not to coat the Non cracked Cartridges .

After the original 'Glue/ Weld ' together it still amazes me on how 'Strong' the cartridge was ....being able to sand & work on it with-out worrying to much about how I handled it.

I guess it really depends on just how strong the Brass still is after 150 + years .

I know pictures would help A-Ton on this post but I looked for the 2 treated pieces last night & did not find them , I saw them not long ago & will do my best to post a picture when I can , ASAP.

Some may say? Why so much work on a pretty common Spencer , ? Well they are not that common anymore & knowing the site it came from is Most important to me.
&
Like you after my 20 years of Relic Hunting each Bullet Fired or not is a Big Deal.

All this reminds me , I dug a 41 Wesson cartridge a few years ago , not a perfect / clean break but it's all there . I'd like to reconstruct that one some day as well ...Someday , Lord Willing 'maybe even at the old folks home' I'd be board then ill bet. lol

GL with yours (they look good Now ) & hope you can find another .Or 10 . lol

Sorry but I type a-lot of details .
Davers

That's some great tips! Greatly appreciated! I fixed a hole in a gas tank on a old car one time with JB Weld so I know how amazing that stuff is but wouldn't have thought about using in this case! Always a challenge trying to preserve different relics I find without ruining the natural "relic look" to them! I found a guy on a Youtube video that used Elmer's GLUE-ALL to seal off a US belt plate that the back was falling apart! Actually worked great on the video and the guy stated how the glue could be removed easily if later up the road he wanted to preserve the belt plate with another means! So I started thinking, wonder what it would do with the Spencer cartridges! I tested it on the many shotgun shells I had dug just to see how it would look! Looked pretty natural! So first I coated the inside and outside with a coat of the glue! Let it dry overnight! Then I got a hot glue gun and reassembled the best I could the puzzle pieces of the cartridges! Once that was nice and hard, I applied several more coats of the Glue-All with a soft paint brush! The process actually worked nicely! Showed it to a season pro bullet hunter and he made a great suggestion for next time, once you apply the glue, rub some clean dirt from the area on the cracks! It will seal the cracks better and hide some of the flaws! He made sure I understood this was for display purposes only and not to try and re-sale the cartridge as whole! I never sell anything so I was good there! Next time I have a fresh find, I'd like to see how it works! Going to test the JB Weld idea on some modern cartridges to see! Again, thanks for the reply! Have a great night my friend!

 

[Red River Campaign 1864]

Great find! Once I found all seven unfired rounds in a small area where they must have been dropped or came out of the tube magazine. Only a few of them were still held together due to the powder corroding them. It's getting harder and harder to find complete cartridges like that. The way you have them in the display case looks great.

That would be amazing to find that many in a small area! I fill like there's more where these came from but haven't had a chance to hunt the area since I found these two! Can't wait to get back into the woods soon! Thanks for the kind words! Have a great night my friend!

 

[Davers]

That's some great tips! Greatly appreciated! I fixed a hole in a gas tank on a old car one time with JB Weld so I know how amazing that stuff is but wouldn't have thought about using in this case! Always a challenge trying to preserve different relics I find without ruining the natural "relic look" to them! I found a guy on a Youtube video that used Elmer's GLUE-ALL to seal off a US belt plate that the back was falling apart! Actually worked great on the video and the guy stated how the glue could be removed easily if later up the road he wanted to preserve the belt plate with another means! So I started thinking, wonder what it would do with the Spencer cartridges! I tested it on the many shotgun shells I had dug just to see how it would look! Looked pretty natural! So first I coated the inside and outside with a coat of the glue! Let it dry overnight! Then I got a hot glue gun and reassembled the best I could the puzzle pieces of the cartridges! Once that was nice and hard, I applied several more coats of the Glue-All with a soft paint brush! The process actually worked nicely! Showed it to a season pro bullet hunter and he made a great suggestion for next time, once you apply the glue, rub some clean dirt from the area on the cracks! It will seal the cracks better and hide some of the flaws! He made sure I understood this was for display purposes only and not to try and re-sale the cartridge as whole! I never sell anything so I was good there! Next time I have a fresh find, I'd like to see how it works! Going to test the JB Weld idea on some modern cartridges to see! Again, thanks for the reply! Have a great night my friend!

Yea Man the Elmers Glue method works good esp on Pewter & like you said is reversible.

I also was going to note , to reveal any 'fixes' if you ever sell , I never sell my digs either.

It sounds as if your technique worked well .

I only tried my way of fixing cause I had found a few of the & the break was clean ( I would have to "Puzzle" my . 41 Wesson cartridge ) = Fun! Fun!
If I had dug only 1 or 2 I likely would have not tried the Fix.

Hope you find some more .
Complete ones are hard to find in 2018 'for sure'.
Davers

 

[Red River Campaign 1864]

Yea Man the Elmers Glue method works good esp on Pewter & like you said is reversible.

I also was going to note , to reveal any 'fixes' if you ever sell , I never sell my digs either.

It sounds as if your technique worked well .

I only tried my way of fixing cause I had found a few of the & the break was clean ( I would have to "Puzzle" my . 41 Wesson cartridge ) = Fun! Fun!
If I had dug only 1 or 2 I likely would have not tried the Fix.

Hope you find some more .
Complete ones are hard to find in 2018 'for sure'.
Davers

Always a learning process but worked out well, this time! Also, I'm picking up some JB Weld to do some experimentation with it! Let you know what I figure out! Hope to find many more too! Have a great day my friend!

 

[Digemnega]

Nice finds! Good job on the cleanup also.

 

[Red River Campaign 1864]

Nice finds! Good job on the cleanup also.

Thanks my friend!