Stock market, 9/4/08 Down 344?

[rmptr]

I looked at the market report when I got home today.
It really took a dive.

Never had much but outhouse luck myself, but I'll be darned if I'd let other people manage my money for me.

Well, the question is, what is YOUR pension fund invested in?
Heck, I ain't even got one to lose money...



From the chart, these guys sure aren't doing much to earn their paychecks...

Good luck to you.
rmptr

 

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[nhbenz]

Fidelity Low Priced Stock Fund (FLPSX)... yes, its down this year... but remember that its all about long-term investing. The "Wizard of Fidelity" is insanely knowledgeable. It put me through college... thanks bro.

 

[Johnny Cache Hunter]

If you can tolerate a long term investment plan, meaning you have some money available to invest in the market and your quite certain that you won't need to put your hands on that money for things like your retirement or a child's college education for at least a minimum of 7 - 10 years, and you have the stomach for some short term volatility, or at least you don't mind throwing up on your shoes, then I'd say this is a very desirable time to be investing in the financials. They have been really beaten up over the past 7 or 8 months, in most cases deservedly so. People who aren't active investors often get confused about when a stock is an attractive investment. Folks will often look at a skyrocketing stock and think "let me jump on that" however, you don't necessarily want to be buying a stock as it's making a new 52 week high, it's very likely at that point that your not going to be getting a good valuation on that stock. These financial stocks are at, or are reasonable near, their 52 weeks lows. The real bottom in the financials appears to be around July 15, with most stocks hitting their 52 week low on that date. These companies are not going to be kept down forever. They will return to profitability, or perhaps I should say, most will return to profitability. Hence, invest wisely and be diversified amongst several of the financials as opposed to being overweight in any one company. Diversity over a broad range of sectors is of course what most investors should be looking to do but for this post I am just focusing on what I believe is an opportunity to pick up a number of these financial stocks, or even just the financial ETF (exchange traded fund), the symbol is XLF, which is essentially a basket of mixed financial stocks, at what will seem in time to be very reasonable prices. The caveat is, you have to have a long term investment plan to safely play these financials right now, otherwise your pretty much gambling. If you can't stand a long term investment then you'd be better off staying out of the financials or be looking to day trade them on market speculation, news, earnings, the flip of a coin..... but you'd better be watching them with a very close eye and an even tighter stop. The financials will rebound, I guarantee it, after all they going to do it on the backs of all of us. Of course this is JMHO.


JCH

 

[greydigger]

Pork bellies are up! but starting to slide down a little...
My broker would not let me buy at $70. Closed today at $90. Down from $92.

 

[rmptr]

Well that's interesting.

I'll have to look at that one, NH...
Glad it worked for you... in the past.

Different ballgame, now.

IMO

... Even the 'Wizard of Omaha' is not doing as well, now!

JCH, a good presentation... no call for your JUST MHO.

I hope your assessment is better than my own!

It's my thought many of those financials will be swept off the floor of the exchange.

As a number already have been.

The gift of the Bear to JP Morgan at taxpayer expense was basically a crime against we taxpayers.

Fannie & Freddie are possibly worse.

You can only manipulate SO much.

(I think it's being done so some of the fat cats can pull their stash out, at the expense of little guys.)

Best,
rmptr

 

[Old California]

Hello rmptr,

Recently, Left my job career job of 31 years and am currently going through the process of pulling out my employer company retirement and leave most of my 401 K in the market, Should be completed within the next two months. Plus, Started School this week for a career as an Industrial Maintenance Technician, The school is for seven months which isn't that long. Looking forward to completing the course and starting my new career (God willing) and if the economy allows.

I keep my 401K in a safe Vanguard fund (Intermediate Term Treasury-VFITX) which has had a positive returns this year, I had a feeling the market would start collapsing this year so I transferred my entire 401 K funds from a few different Vanguard International funds into the Intermediate Term Treasury fund at the beginning of the year.

Glad I did for since the beginning of the year these same different Vanguard International funds I was once invested in are now showing about a 14% decrease for YTD. The Vanguard Intermediate Term Treasury fund I switched too at the beginning of the year reacts in a positive manner as the Market goes south and pays Monthly dividends as well, So right now it's a safe fund to be in as the Market spirals down.

My Company employer retirement I have no control as investing but they do an excellent job managing the account, This I will be cashing out minus early withdraw penalties and pay off my home.

I feel the economy is going to get worse, Maybe even a Depression. Housing has not hit bottom yet and I feel it will plunge 10-20 percent more creating more foreclosures which in turn will continue to decline the housing market and put our economy at the blink or in a Depression.

Sorry for the rambling, God Bless!
Paul (Ca)

 

[rmptr]

Sure sounds like you have a plan, Paul. That's good!

As I've said elsewhere, I do a mail drop for a fellow, and his quarterly 401k plan statement comes to my box.

I call him, he says, Open it... He doesn't work for that company anymore, but his 401k loses 10% per quarter.

He should pull it out, switch it over, or something!

Sounds like you are happy with your fund management. Good for you! Keep a wary eye on 'em!

.... I DID say I'm NOT qualified, didn't I ?
I'm just opinionated.

LoL ! I'm an unfunded liability!

Best,
rmptr

 

[Old California]

Hello rmptr,

There are safe funds your friend can put his 401k portfolio in under times like these, A fund that will actually have positive returns when the market goes down or have minimum returns if the market bounces back. Same type of fund I switched my 401K too at the beginning of the year.

My other fund which was company funded for me I have no control and even though the fund is managed well it will still show a large loss at the end of this (2008) year had I left it in there, As will the majority of Market funds including the housing sector when 2008 ends.

Because I am leaving my job before the year end my retirement will be based on year ending 2007 account balance and this years current terrible loss on the Market our economy is experiencing will not effect it. That's one of the several reasons I quit my job, The other two were to prepare for the tough times ahead and change careers.

Everyone needs to better prepare themselves, We are in for tough times ahead.

Best wishes,
Paul (Ca)

 

[rmptr]

Aw shucks Paul,

You are such a nice fellow.
I've read your posts elsewhere, and you are just swell.

I'm not, Paul.
I'll be a nice as I can, but circumstances warrant, I'm a prostitute and an opportunist.

And did I say I'm a pathological liar and a functional illiterate?
That's me.

Not by choice, I'd rather be fishing.
It's the playing field that was created for me by my predecessors.

How yah gonna deal with inflation, Paul?

Yesterday a 10lb bag of spuds was $4.98.
Not so long ago it was less than half that.

Have you bought a dozen eggs lately?

How about the cereal aisle in the market?
It darn near takes a bank loan to purchase a ticket to go down THAT aisle!

Paul, I traveled hundreds of thousands of miles by automobile, more or less trouble free.
All of a sudden, under penalty of incarceration, it was demanded that I spend $300, then $600 each year on insurance while traveling in that same vehicle.

I've put more miles on a kickstarter than most have put on a motorcycle, and now it is violation of law, with criminal penalties NOT to wear a helmet... OR have insurance on that motorbike!

A few years back I bought a full sized pickup off the lot for $20k.
Months ago my friend spent the same on a mini pickup.

Way back when, I bought a wore out 64 Chevy pickup from a mason for $300. He paid $1,800 NEW.

My friend, how is your investment gonna give you any kind of hedge against inflation when there is a fund manager earning HIS living off your savings?

As I said, Paul, I'd just as soon NOT debate with you. You're too nice a fellow.
Perhaps you could google Ilargi at Automatic Earth and review his thoughts on economics, as I do.
He's pleasant as he can be, for the commentary he makes, and he presents the source material.

Good luck to you, Old California!
rmptr

 

[GPURS]

Ole rmptr, I'm glad to see you are still bloviating ! I just wish that you would stop peeing all over stocks and mutual funds. As smart a guy as you are, you could make a nice little chunk of spendin money in the markets. I'm 40 this year(and nooo genius I assure you), and have purchased my house and several vehicles from the procedes of poking around in the stock market. It is quite a safe place for even a minimally educated person, and a cinch for someone of your calibre !!!
As a side bar issue, I really think you need to get out of Cali!!! That place seems like it provides a quite depressing landscape for you. Things are not really bad in most other parts of the country. Hell, we never even got close to that "recession" that a bunch of you guys were talking up. For that matter, 2nd Qtr. GDP was something like 3.7%. Even my reptilian brain can cypher that we are a loooong way from recession. Some leftwing media types and some end-of-the-world types were even throwing around the "depression" tag a few months ago..... Nope, we are just fine... Good luck to you my friend and stop reading so much of that Ilargi fella, as I don't think he is good for you... Jeepers..

 

[rmptr]

Ah, my friend GPURS!

...It still hurts when you whack me with the velvet covered 'stoopid stick', you know!

As I've said before, I'm a fine example of how a little knowledge can get you in a lot of trouble.

I know I can get to all kinds of nice places in this here automobile, but the engines blown!
Thing is, I bought a brand new lifetime battery a week before,
and my favorite radio station still comes in just fine!

I can't complain much!
The gas mileage is GREAT!
and the bathroom's not far, either!

I'll admit you may be right, GPURS.
A change of scenery would probably do me good.

I had thought I was gonna get ahead a bit when I got a week's work...
Then one of my main tools took a dump at the end of the first day.
Replacement was a grand. It was that fella Murphy...
One step forward, two back.

And you're right again...
Even in small-town CA folks are running 900mph.
They GOT to... Everything is expensive and fast paced.
I just don't have that much steam any longer!

The Mom's used to race by the house to drop kids at the school each morning...
Pedal to the metal! We called 'em Caravan Moms.
Kids walking up both sides of the road to the school, and they were setting speed records. Twice a day.

But that changed...
They all bought 4 x 4 diesel duallies. Same speed.
I love the smell of diesel in the morning!

Now that we've moved away from the school, things have changed, again.
The soccer Moms have Volvos and Priuses.
I guess they're pretty quick, too... but they are quieter.

Well GPURS, I had a fella that was beginning to teach me about an advance-decline system based on some sort of cyclic trends, but I never followed through with it. He earned a living at it.
Seems I was too busy putting the beans on the table, and if I wasn't, I was stressed while LOOKING for an opportunity to do so. Not too much of it sunk in.
I never did get into real - life down on the barrel head specifics with him. He was hoping to bring me in educating me a bit at a time.
Not that HE was doing it, but I think the days of naked options and hedge fund derivatives are probably over.
But that's a negative, isn't it?

If I were to relocate, it would most likely be with the gracious folks of the South...
Don't think I'm tough enough for the winters in the North any longer...

Well, I've gotten too long here, again...

Best,
rmptr

 

[Old California]

Hello rmptr,

No need to debate my replies as I'm just responding to your post with you asking for our input......Plus, I will not argue or debate an elder especially a Californian brother

(Inflation) Under current circumstances inflation is effecting just about everyone even many of those with deep pockets, Until we have a strong economy I don't see this going away or at least not for several years.

Also, I understand several investment fund companies eating up a % (management fees) from client's, Especially in this Market most every investor is already showing enormous losses for the year so going with a investment fund company charging enormous fees is suicide. However, There are a few investment companies that do charge extremely low fees (Vanguard) is one of them.

I don't see the rebound coming or enough of a jump to get our economy back to a safer level, Under a more favorable economy yes I would be for supporting the market taking more risk but for now I feel a no return in the market is allot better than a negative return.

Good luck to you as well, rmptr!
Old California

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Calif, & RMPTR, Ya couple of old coots, obviously the strings of your Abacus are loose, and of course, your favorite OUIJI board personnel are on strike. You both are prob from southern Calif at that. Even so, I do tend to agree with you

I will even burn a candle or two for you if you manage to get Gold, Silver, Copper, Chrome, Nickle, and Platinum up, since I hold mining stocks in them, plus a personal mine or two - non producing at the moment of course, sigh.

If you can get NORONT Ca. stock up to 17 Ca. , I will publicly smooch you both, plus buy you a San Miguel each. "proof that the days of the big spender aren't gone yet".

Can TT join us forthe beer fest?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[gnewt]

History sometimes gives us a picture of the future. The stock market always takes a dive just before we get a new president and it could last four years if we get a dud.
That is happening and has happened, so get the dart board out and you can compare that to the stock brokers, they might do better with one. Gnewt

 

[simonds]

Do any of you invest in futures?
I have been a self employed carpenter for 38 years, and I have nothing put to side or invested toward my retirement. I always lived for the day. I have been having back problems for the last few years. I can no longer handle the hard work that I used to do, lots of drywall work. I want to find something that isn't back breaking work to bring in some money. I am not looking for a get rich quick scheme, If I can profit about twenty thousand a year, I would do fine. I happened to read an article on investing in commodities. I had never known anything about the stock market. It really caught my my attention and I read all I could find on it. I wanted to try this with a small investment and try to learn as I go. I invested three thousand through a broker and he did did real good for me for a while. I had more than doubled my investment in a short time with corn, wheat and soybeans. Then he wanted to put it all out there, which I had a bad feeling about, but I went with it because of his knowledge and past profits. Well I lost it all.
I guess what I am wondering about is that I still like this idea and would welcome any advice from fellow treasure hunters who may know more about investing than I do. Should I do the investing myself using the internet, without a Brokerage Firm. They got a commission for every move, buy and sell. I thought it would be worth that so I could learn more while he did the work.
I don't think my treasure hunting is going to pay the bills. I sure keep hoping it will but better to to have a back up plan.
Thanks to all for any advice
Happy Hunting

 

[rmptr]

Hola Don Jose!

Wuts a bacabuss?

count shells in left hand, put notch on stick when hand full, start again!

Metal might go up, but volume will not, unless factories have need to produce for consumers.
I'm a full time consumer, but don't get much.

Well, that's not true.
I just splish-splashed 65 gallons of colored water inside a new house this week.
WoW! did the price on THAT stuff go up!

I woulda had more fun if it hadn't been 97 to 103 degrees!

Y usted, Don Jose?
Espero tranquilo y fresco en su hacienda?

...And good luck with that frisky business!
I'll bet TT is smoochier than I.

Best,

 

[rmptr]

Simonds, I feel your pain!

You might try looking for some of GPURS posts...
He got some ideas on the stock market, here and there.

Haven't really seen where anyone here on Tnet actually came out and helped us with insider trading info.
I'm sure there are folks around doing E-trades and such.

Holler a bit and someone will pop up!

Best,
rmptr

 

[rmptr]

I found THIS today... would you sharp fellas tell me ?

UAL hit by years-old bankruptcy story

By Mary Schlangenstein

Sept. 8 (Bloomberg) -- United Airlines parent UAL Corp. said it didn't file for bankruptcy, after a financial-research firm mistakenly presented a 6-year-old Chicago Tribune article on the carrier's 2002 Chapter 11 filing as new information.

The shares fell as much as 76 percent before trading was halted for about 90 minutes, then recovered most of the decline. UAL trades between 10:55 a.m. and 11:08 a.m. New York time won't be canceled, the Nasdaq Stock Market said on its Web site.

The December 2002 news report was posted online by the South Florida Sun-Sentinel and was picked up by Income Securities Advisors Inc., said Richard Lehmann, president of the Miami Lakes, Florida-based research firm. Income Securities distributed the report on the Bloomberg terminal before retracting it and issuing a correction.
<eof>

By Christopher Hinton
Trading in UAL (UAUA:UAUA 10.92, -1.38, -11.2%) stock was halted at about 11:06 a.m. Eastern time after falling nearly 76% to $3 a share. Shares resumed trading at about 12:25 p.m. They closed with an 11.2% loss at $10.92.
However, in a statement, Sun-Sentinel parent Tribune Co. indicated that the story does not appear to have been republished.
Tribune said its preliminary investigation into the situation has revealed that "no story appeared today or over the weekend on the Sun-Sentinel Web site or any Tribune Web site regarding United Airlines' filing for bankruptcy."
The story archived on the Sun-Sentinel's Web site contains "information that would clearly lead a reader to the conclusion that it was related to events in 2002," Tribune said. "In addition, the comments posted along with the story are dated 2002."
That shares would fall so quickly for a company that analysts considered solid for at least the next year and had even added to its cash balance at the end of the second quarter is a testament to just how jumpy airline investors are in the current environment.
Florida Sun-Sentinel's deputy managing editor, Joe Schwerdt, said internal tracking records showed the story hadn't been accessed for editing since 2003, according to the Chicago Tribune Web site. The story has since been removed from the Sentinel's Web site.
<eof>

The shares fell as much as 76 percent before trading was halted for about 90 minutes......

then recovered most of the decline.
****

UAL trades between 10:55 a.m. and 11:08 a.m. New York time won't be canceled, the Nasdaq Stock Market said on its Web site.

Huh?
What was that?

Trades CAN be cancelled?
So that means if you are some "special" stoopido, you could wank to the right person and un-do a deal you had made?
How does that work for the person you made a deal WITH!

..and look at the bit, just above, that declares with amazement how 'jumpy' airline investors are in the current environment

Jumpy? is THAT the word for it?
...and 'airline investors' I don't think it's ONLY airline investors!
...and, 'in the current environment' Yikes! Like when everything is poised to go to hell in a handbasket?

So a 3rd string reporter wants to impress the boss with his research ability and posts a short story.
All told, YOU are down 11.2% for the day.

OK, I'll admit it.
If you fellas have money in the stock market, especially if managed by someone besides yourself, my hat's off to you.
You got huevos grandes.

I really don't know how this works, but lets say I have the utmost confidence in Hank and I bought options for 100k shares in Fannie mae @ 70 cents shortly before the bell, today, sept 8, 08. Broker instructed to sell tomorrow, by the clock, at 10:30 NY time. (Can you tell I'm feeling frisky? 1st cash I've had in, well, forever...)

Best,
rmptr

 

[GPURS]

Rmptr, you are a hoot!!! .. If you would just get to work on a book of short stories, I promise to buy 5 to 10 (autographed) copies myself! You can spin a yarn..
Nooo, I never really talk to anybody about investing anymore, as I learned my lessons the hard way in regards to trying to "help" people. Back in the late 1990's there was easy money to be had in the internet and tech infrastructure build out businesses. You remember Aol, Ciena, Cisco,Yahoo, and tons of smaller ones that nobody remembers now. Friends would ask me what to buy (hell a blind man coulda run his finger down the listings in the paper and picked a winner back then) anyhow, I made some suggestions to some of my friends on some things to buy. A lot of the stuff went up nicely, sometimes splitting, sometimes splitting more than once. The only problem was that some people rode this stuff to the top, and then all the way back down the other side, never taking any profit, just watching it disintegrate. Aol from a high of around $97(after several splits) to a low around $7... Guess who got blamed for some of these people "losing" their money ?? I reckon I was supposed to tell them when to sell and wipe their rear ends as well... I didn't even charge a commission and was catching all kinds of hell..
With that said, if I were a guy like Simonds, I would go along with "Old California" and say that Vanguard is a really fine mutual fund company. Call them up and ask for a prospectus to be mailed to your house, and read the thing until you understand a little bit about what they have to offer. Although I have never done business with them, I know that they have some of the best performing funds (Over time), and don't rip you off with high front end loads or fees. Anyhow, good luck to you all,, Gpurs..

 

[rmptr]

And I'm glad you weighed in on that one!

OK, I can see where you may not want to comment on it.

I don't see where UAL will have a case against the publisher, but they sure got hurt a bit.

Confidence is everything, in a confidence game!

Especially @ 600mph @ 35k ft...

But it's all about buying/burning fuel by the ton, wasn't it?

Anyhow, I'll look at my fannie mae after 10:30 NY time, manana.

Best,
rmptr