Stone Tablets-Most likely planted fakes.

[motel6.5]

There were some very old rumors makeing the rounds that the first Stone Tablet found
was a plant. The idea was to make it look old,therefore valuable as a treasure lead,then
sell it for a nice profit. The TALE reverses back to a Arizona Artist painter who use
to Explore the SUPERS, and supposidly hid some paintings in a cave,in the Supers.
The person who found the 1ST brick tablet while takeing a break on a car outing,was a
friend of the Artist and needed money for a debt. Just sometimes 2+2 does equal four.
My personal thoughts are the Tablets are fake,but they sure do look good in the museum,
and do good for the tourist trade.{they are original fakes though}.
This same Artist did a painting of Apaches rideing horses with witches hats on.He may have
seen a very old rock painting dateing back to the Peralta:s, of a witch pointing a wand
with stars shooting from it.

 

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[chlsbrns]

The museum in possession of the stones say they are fake. Made with modern machinery.

Peralta Stones and Lost Dutchman Gold Mine

 

[hooch]

Seriously why do these ******ed posts keep popping up

 

[motel6.5]

Seriously why do these ******ed posts keep popping up

I have nothing better to do right now, Hooch.
I did not know the museum authanicated the tablets as fakes,thanks.
I saw the whole show on history channel and enjoyed it,looking forward to the next segment.

 

[Eldo]

After seeing the second show, I'm ready for a real spaghetti western now

How Bout you MarkMar

View attachment 1120918

 

[gollum]

Motel and Chlsbns,

There are about 5 million posts about the subject, but we can start all over.

FIRST, that is a very old article by Gene Botts ( a well known Stone Maps disbeliever). There is no such thing as the Arizona Mining and Minerals Museum any more. It was shut down and incorporated into Az State U. The Superstition Mountain Historical Society and Museum currently have the Stone Maps on permanent loan, and the SMHS Museum does not say they are fakes in any way. I know several people that work at the museum that believe 100% in their authenticity.

The man's name that found the Stone Maps was Travis Tumlinson. Your version where they were faked to lend credence to their authenticity to increase their value kind of falls in a dumpster when you consider that in his lifetime, Travis Tumlinson never once attempted to sell the Stone Maps. He possessed them from 1949 until his death in 1961. He kept their existence mostly a secret from the world for twelve years. He made several trips into the Superstitions trying to solve the Stonew Maps. Sound like someone that faked them? Not at all.

If you spent more than five minutes researching all the information that myself, Garry, and a couple of others have found in the last 8 years, you might have a little different opinion.

Mike


PS

Another thing that you might want to keep in mind is that (especially in the Old Dutch Hunting Community), what people say they believe in public is not necessarily what they say to their friends and partners when others aren't around. Just a thought.

 

[Peachy]

The Found Dutchmans Mine just doesn't have that ring to it. I feel bad for the guys who have spent years researching and hunting. Now with this show, there will be a thousand" know it all's" trampling up and down the grounds and if it is indeed there, one of them will fall into it and probably sue the claim holder. Same goes for the guys I know that have been hunting ginseng all of their lives. No sir, don't like it.

 

[chlsbrns]

I'll take the word of the experts at the museum who say the stones are fake. It was Father Charles Polzer curator of ethno-history at the Arizona State Museum who said they are fake. If anyone chooses to believe they are real in spite of never being authenticated they can believe it.

The more I read the more it appears that the stones were planted to lead people away from an area.

 

[chlsbrns]

I know several people that work at the museum that believe 100% in their authenticity.

Another thing that you might want to keep in mind is that (especially in the Old Dutch Hunting Community), what people say they believe in public is not necessarily what they say to their friends and partners when others aren't around. Just a thought.

...

😁

 

[Hal Croves]

I'll take the word of the experts at the museum who say the stones are fake. It was Father Charles Polzer curator of ethno-history at the Arizona State Museum who said they are fake. If anyone chooses to believe they are real in spite of never being authenticated they can believe it.

The more I read the more it appears that the stones were planted to lead people away from an area.

I wonder who these experts are? The truth being, there is no such thing as an "expert" when it comes to the stones. The best that one can hope for is a few intelligent theories backed with research and reason. There are a few floating around. But, even the most imaginative ideas are sometimes worth reading.


I will now put my head on the block and tell you that it is possible to date the stones. The answer is there on the surface, in the physical inscriptions themselves. Understand how they were made, which tools were used, and you will most likely come to the conclusion that they are a recent work.

Fake? Well, that depends on your definition of the word.

 

[chlsbrns]

The expert was the museum curator Father Charles Polzer who concluded that the stones were made with modern machinery.

 

[Hal Croves]

The expert was the museum curator Father Charles Polzer who concluded that the stones were made with modern machinery.

Yes. High speed machinery. Can you tell us what exactly Polzers was an expert in?

...but, you should not let their date discourage you.

I look at it this way. They (the stones) are a record. They tell the location of something important. Something historical, archeological, or perhaps a cache of valuables. Or all three. There is gold in the Superstition if that is what you are after. But there may be something far more important.

 

[motel6.5]

Why would anyone put a map on a cumberson ,chippable brick tablet , when a map on leather last longer can be
folded, and is very concealable . I don"t believe that even Jesuits would do that, however the Jesuits might put a map
on a gold or silver bar,more their style. Does anyone know? who found a cross with markings on it while hunting the
the Supers. Was it Travis T.

 

[chlsbrns]

Can you tell us what exactly Polzers was an expert in?.

ethno-history at the Arizona State Museum

 

[chlsbrns]

Why would anyone put a map on a cumberson ,chippable brick tablet

To lead people away from an area.

 

[chlsbrns]

The Peraltas had numerous mines all of which are so called "lost" there are also supposed to be 30 some caches. You dont hear of many if any who believe or think that Waltz found a cache. Most seem to think that Waltz found one of the numerous so called lost mines.

 

[Hal Croves]

ethno-history at the Arizona State Museum

Polzer was far from and "expert" on the subject and there is the fact that his position in the church represents a conflict for those believing in a Jesuit conspiracy. With that said, there may be a Jesuit connection to the stones but it most likely will be in the form of a historical reference.

But Polzer still had the ability to understand what it takes to create the beautiful, fluid lines of these engravings or, if you want, inscriptions. The only way to understand them is to try to reproduce one in the same materials. Try a circle with a dot in the center to scale with simple hand tools. Then next to it one done with a Dremal. Use a head shape that was available in the 1940s. That small cone might work well. Post your results.

There is evidence that suggest Kino explored the length of the Salt River and it's tributaries. Somehow, it get dismissed by academics.

By UA News Services, November 10, 2003

Father Charles W. Polzer, S.J., died on Tuesday, Nov. 4, 2003, at Regis Infirmary, Sacred Heart Jesuit Center, in Los Gatos, Calif. He was 72.
Polzer received a doctorate in history and anthropology in 1972 and during the '70s was an ethnohistorian for the Arizona State Museum.
Born in San Diego, Calif., on December 1, 1930. He graduated from Santa Clara University in California in 1952 and entered the Society of Jesus at Sacred Heart Novitiate, Los Gatos. He pronounced final vows on July 31, 1982, at San Ignacio, Sonora, Mexico. He also earned a master's degree in government and a doctorate in philosophy from St. Louis University.
Polzer was a founder of the Southwest Mission Research Center, which is a non-profit Arizona corporation that does research and publishes articles on Spanish colonial history and anthropology. At the center, the Polzer had graduate students compile archives from Spain and the Southwest. Polzer also started a computerized guide to several collections of Spanish colonial documents.
Most recently, Polzer made a push for the Roman Catholic Church to declare Father Francisco Eusebio Kino as a saint. Kino was a late 17th-century missionary for Spain perhaps best known for choosing the site of San Xavier Mission.

 

[deducer]

Polzer was a founder of the Southwest Mission Research Center, which is a non-profit Arizona corporation that does research and publishes articles on Spanish colonial history and anthropology. At the center, the Polzer had graduate students compile archives from Spain and the Southwest. Polzer also started a computerized guide to several collections of Spanish colonial documents.

His helping to found what would eventually become the DRSW, as well as his heavy involvement with ASU and UA, had a dual purpose.

One was to do as you mentioned, and the other was that while compiling a database, he could at the same time, intercept and eliminate, or make otherwise disappear, sensitive materials, records, or letters, regarding Jesuit involvement in mining, Indian treatment, or acquiring wealth. As you see, he had a blatant agenda: to deny that there were Jesuit treasure, and to canonize Father Kino.

Indeed, if you visit the archives at the UA, ASU, or DRSW, you will find nothing of value.

Anything that I have found to have any significance, was found outside his sphere of influence.

 

[Hal Croves]

His helping to found what would eventually become the DRSW, as well as his heavy involvement with ASU and UA, had a dual purpose.

One was to do as you mentioned, and the other was that while compiling a database, he could at the same time, intercept and eliminate, or make otherwise disappear, sensitive materials, records, or letters, regarding Jesuit involvement in mining, Indian treatment, or acquiring wealth. As you see, he had a blatant agenda: to deny that there were Jesuit treasure, and to canonize Father Kino.

Indeed, if you visit the archives at the UA, ASU, or DRSW, you will find nothing of value.

Anything that I have found to have any significance, was found outside his sphere of influence.

Holy Shite those are some bold claims!

 

[deducer]

Holy Shite those are some bold claims!

Not really. I am not the first one or the only person to float this idea, or scenario.