The Untold Story of Oak Island that needs to be told- a missing map, fort, and more.

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Is this the reason and the person responsible for the stone road on Oak Island?

This is a major story about the untold link to Oak Island that I think needs to be explored. It involves a missing map, a missing fort, an unknown church or lands owned by the nuns of the Hotel Dieu, and missing money.

Let me start by saying this is fact. Some of the dates are going to inevitably be off due to the discrepancy of Canadian and French records, but this is all true, and it's the story I wish someone would start researching.

THIS IS THE SHORT VERSION-- so research away

I'll make fact-checking this super easy-- start verifying this story by Googling the word MINITIGUICH. That's right- that's it. (I'm impressed to see there are now TWO entire pages of search results. For a long time there were 6 returns.)

So here we go... it starts with MINITIGUICH
A French gentleman by the name of HUGUES RANDIN came to Canada around 1665. His name is often misspelled as Raudin. But IT IS Randin.
Now, he's with the Carignan-Salières Regiment AND he is the nephew of Captain Saurel/Sorel. (His mother was Hippolyte Saurel... See the Genealogy Below)

This is why the story and information deserve further research.

Hugues Randin is a young ARCHITECT/ENGINEER and CARTOGRAPHER AND the Nephew of one of the most influential persons responsible for Canada.
Skipping over a ton of facts, he gets given an amazing tract of land for all the work he did. It's called a Seigneurie, and it's located in a prime position on the St.Lawrence River in Quebec. It is granted to him on October 29 1672. You can see it HERE on page 179 (It's still called Randin Island.)

He sells it right away, which you can read on page 180 HERE

Where did he put all the money he received for it?

After he sells it, he does some more work and gets given the Seigneurie of MINITIGUICH in 1676. Where is that you ask? It's Mirligueche.

WAS HUGUES RANDIN THE ORIGINAL OWNER OF OAK ISLAND?


Now, Mirligueche eventually becomes Lunenburg. However, Mirligeche is also placed much farther up and is also referred to as Mirligieche Bay, Mirligaiche, etc. In fact, even the Dalhousie archives have documents stating Mirligueche also included Mahone Bay.
Hugues Randin's tract of land ran from Mirligueche down to LaHave. It is measured in leagues and is extremely difficult to understand because it's only based on the description in relation to LaHave and Mirligueche. That's why you need to start looking at all the locations of Mirligueche HERE. His land grant is described as follows:

"six leagues of land in Acadia, along the sea starting a mile away east northeast of the place called Minitiguich to and including the small river of Hève with the islands and islets which are ahead, and six leagues deep in the said land, as a fief and seigneury."

You can read the original on page 210 HERE

Given this information, we know that even if his tract of land ended at the point off Lunenburg, his Second Peninsula property would be in a dead straight line to Oak Island, which I believe is something like 9 miles. However, the land grant may have included Oak island itself depending on the actual placement of Mirligueche. That's what makes the maps so interesting. This guy's site is the best, and you can see all the different locations of Mirligueche- top of the bay vs the Lunenburg location.

EVEN CRAZIER THAN THE FACT THAT HUGUES RANDIN MIGHT BE THE ORIGINAL OWNER OF OAK ISLAND IS THE FACT THAT HE LIKELY BUILT A "MISSING FORT" ON THE SECOND PENINSULA.

Why doesn't anyone talk about the mysterious Fort located on the second Peninsula in direct line with Oak island?

THIS LINK shows the existence of that fort being built, although they commonly use the date of 1697 as the date he inherited his land, which we know is wrong. The 1697 date is a common mistake as people simply copy it and often don't research it.

A ton of cool things happened at this location which you can READ HERE. We discuss them more later!

So why does this matter? Well, Hugues Randin was an engineer, cartographer, and architect.

A CARTOGRAPHER/ARCHITECT ON OAK ISLAND? (insert TCOO Narrator's voice here and repeat again.)


Hugues Randin was the person that conducted those original censuses you see in 1671 and was responsible for a lot more. He even surveyed the population and intimately knew the land that would become his future Seigneurie.
The important point here is-- would an international engineer, architect, and cartographer not take the time to look around, map, and explore his own area? Of course, he would.

So, where are his Seigneurie records and papers pertaining to this tract of land? Where are the archives on the mysterious fort?

This is where things get awesome. In case you're wondering if Hugues Randin was capable of building a Fort...he was.
And he built others!

Hugues Randin built the ORIGINAL Fort Frontenac. It was " the key to the West, the base of LaSalle’s explorations and a French outpost against the Iroquois and English."

Why is this important? Go check out the latest Fort Frontenac archaeology and excavation info... there are mystery pits there right down to Bedrock, and they're not sure why. ** Side note, Rose, Crown, and Thistle play a huge part in Kingston history... back then called Cataraqui. You can check it out HERE

It should be noted that 90 FEET was really important to Randin. In fact, he built the original fort to be 90 feet squared. A coincidence? Maybe. A clue? Perhaps!

Now, people start getting mad about Hugues Randin during his time at Fort Frontenac, reporting that his team and those above him are basically double-dipping and taking advantage of the trade. This is reported in multiple documents. Which you can Access HERE. The excerpt states:

"A memoir dated 13 Nov. 1680, from Intendant Duschenau to Jean-Baptiste Colbert in Paris (NYCD, IX, 142) complains of a trading agreement between Randin and his associates, and Frontenac. A document (AN, Col. C11A, 6, f.111) exists which refers twice to the feu (late) Randin; it is dated 10 Jan. 1681. - William F.E. Morley"



Before anything could be done about the complaint, at 29 years of age he's reported dying on a trip to get the Sioux, which doesn't make a ton of sense to me because his death certificate doesn't indicate that, but either way, he dies.

But where's his money? How did he die? Is he buried in Quebec?


There is A LOT of argument due to poor transcription and bad research regarding his death. This is why I attached his death certificate below.

Oddly, just days before his death (when he is supposed to be on an expedition) there is a note found in the archives from January 28677 stating "Obligation Hugues Randin à Geneviefve de Chavi-gny, veuve du Sr Amiot (28 janvier 1677)." You can READ the original on page 147 HERE.

I have no idea what this means or is, but the date is important as he reportedly dies just a few days later.

I've attached his death certificate below. It says 1677 (soixante dix-sept) You can read the study, what they found, and some other stuff HERE.
Did he actually die? Did he try to evade the hot water he was in and go back to France?

What needs more research is whether or not the death certificate is accurate. What it a mistake? Either way, we know that by 1684 He is absolutely dead as his brother Antoine Randin (see genealogy below) Inherits the estate and donates it to the Augustins of Hotel Dieu.

"June 5, 1684.
Deed of donation by Antoine Randin, Sieur de Builly, captain of the Picardy regiment, of the Religious Ladies of the monastery of the Hôtel-Dieu de Québec of "a land and seigneury located in the land of Acadia, consisting of six leagues of land along the sea starting a mile away east-northeast of the place called Minitiguich to and including the small river of Hève, which lordship him belongs as heir to the sieur Hugues Randin, his brother, who had received it from MM. from Frontenac and Duchesneau.
Registry of François Genaple, notary in Quebec, June 5 1684."


You can Read the Original on Page 211 Here

So, other than potentially owning Oak Island or visiting it, what else makes Hugues Randin so interesting?

At some point before his death, we know there was a FORT built at Mirligueche. No one knows the name of it. But I am sure the documents must exist somewhere. This fort is NOT Point Fort. This fort was built on the SECOND PENINSULA. Very little is written about it, but in 1975 archaeological reports confirm this fort, establish that it was likely destroyed BEFORE 1710, and show that Brick kilns, bricks, buttons, coins, and basically all the same stuff you find on Oak Island, was found here.You can read about it HERE.

THE CRAZIEST ROCK CARVING YET was also found here!

It's called the Norumbega Vinland Stone.

Again, this FORT location would be just miles in a straight line up to Oak Island, just 9 miles or so.
Back then, other areas (like Oak Island) that were strategically positioned were used as signal points. Fires were lit, gunfire was sounded, etc. to alert the next point.

Oak Island would have been the perfect signal point, which is why I'd love them to do an episode on this.

The story doesn't end there folks. This is where the missing map comes in!

Skipping over a ton of stuff still, at some point before the 29-year-old HUGUES RANDIN dies, he draws an extremely intricate map of like half of North America. In fact, there were two. (Cool note: one of the longitude lines inexplicably goes right through his own property-- Mirligueche and Oak Island. Check it out by Clicking HERE HERE.)

There's a massive controversy about this map. And you'll really have to research this further, but basically, one of the two maps is STOLEN from the French archives in the mid-1800s and never seen or heard about again. That map included a ton of more detail, especially about places in the South.

The other map still exists and can be found at the John Carter Brown Library in Maine.
Or you can click HERE.

In Pierre Roy George's Book the footnote state:
"This map, which was in the archives of the naval depot in Paris, was removed thereby an unscrupulous amateur who sold it to the John Carter Brown Library in Providence, Rhode Island. This is where we can consult it today."


The map is originally mentioned from Frontenac to Colbert, November 13, 1673, RAPQ, 1927, 40. and is outlined HERE It says:

"He is even easy to go even further with time, since by making a dwelling where you can see on the map where Lake Ontario discharges into Lake Erie and where there is a portage quarter of a league, we could build another boat on the Lake Erie with which we would go to the Lake of the Hurons and that of Illinois, in the Baie des Puans, and as far as Sault Ste Marie or com- begins the Lake Superior, which are infinite spaces and where the navigation is therefore very easy. "


This map is referred to as the Lost Jolliet Map [this map, made by Randin, is lost; cf. "The Jolliet Lost Map," loc. Cit., 76]

This is one of the BEST resources regarding the Jolliet map. While some of the answers are already included in this post, the mystery of the map and the known information in this report is by far the best out there. CLICK HERE to read it. **SAVE YOURSELF TIME and SEARCH RANIDN on the page.

This report brings up a lot of important things about Randin, such as the impossibility of him being a captain, etc. But this has since been solved, in part, thanks to the finding of documents and ascertaining his genealogical link to his uncle SAUREL/SOREL.

Why anyone would want to steal Randin's map, and why it was never found remain a mystery, Or perhaps, it is one of the maps still in question? Regardless, Randin's Lost Jolliett map has remained an unsolved mystery for centuries.

So, what is the connection to the nuns of Hotel Dieu?

The last fact that I think needs to be further researched is the mystery of the land donation by Randin to the Augustines of Hotel Dieu. What happened to it? Why aren't there any records? Why does the website of the order presently state that even they do not know when or why it was sold?

This is of great interest because the Hotel Dieu nuns do have a history of holding treasures. In just 1948 there was a major investigation, and their cloisters were raided. What was taken were 23 chests containing much missing treasure from Poland. What else might the nuns of Hotel Dieu have, perhaps unknowingly... Does it relate to Oak Island?

You can read about the 1948 raid on page 33 and 34 HERE

As you can see, there's a ton of really great information here, and I'd love to see an episode or season devoted to tracking down these links and seeing if there is a connection.

Where did Sieur Randin hide all the money he received when he sold his first Seigneurie in Quebec? Where did he put all the money he made when he was involved in illegal trading at Fort Frontenac? Where are the land surveys and records of his Mirligueche Seigneurie? Where did the missing map go? Why was the land left to the Hotel Dieu? What became of those nuns?


It's another Oak Island mystery!




EXTRA INFORMATION

RANDIN GENEALOGY- Click HERE for full Document Link

Il reçoit la concession de la seigneurie de Berthier-en-Haut (Ste-Geneviève-de-Berthier), le 29-10-1672; neveu du capitaine Pierre de Saurel, côté maternel. Deux frères et deux soeurs sont baptisés à …cully (St-Blaise): Mathieu, 13-04-1644; Catherine, 15-11-1644; Louise, 15-08-1653 et Diane, 21-06-1657. Son frère Marc-Antoine de Randin (Estienne et Hypolite Saurel), né et seigneur d'…cully, capitaine au régiment de Picardie, marié à Lyon (Ste-Croix) (Rhône, 69), le 13-03-1697 avec Anne Dufournel (Jean-Baptiste et Marie-Claire Collet).

OTHER RANDIN MAP REPOSITORIES AND INFORMATION EMAS - Special Topics: Early French Explorations

HUGUES RANDIN EARLIEST BIOGRAPHY BY Roy, Pierre Georges, 1870-1953

ENGINEER HUGHES RANDIN

Randin was ensign of the company of Sorel to the regiment of Carignan which passed here in 1665.
In 1669, the Carignan regiment was recalled to France. Several officers and a large number of soldiers settled in the country. Randin was one of them.
In 1671, Mr. Randin was given a mission in Acadia. Intendant Talon wrote to Colbert on November 11, 1671:
"The vessel which I had sent and from which I was in difficulty anchored on the 2nd of this month in the harbor of Quebec. I received the memoirs on the instructions which I had given to Sieur Randin, officer, who commanded him. These memoirs tell me that the fort of Pentagouët is supporting itself and that it is in rather good condition. (1)
On October 29, 1672, Intendant Talon granted Mr. Randin a league front on the St.Lawrence River, over a league of foundry to be taken from the concession of the Sieur de Comporté (Dorvilliers fiefdom) to the non-conceded lands with the island named after his name Randin. (1)
This concession was made in consideration of the good, useful and commendable services that Ensign Randin had rendered to His Majesty in various places both in ancient France and in New France, since he had passed there by order of His Majesty and in view of those whom he testified to want to return hereafter. (2)
Randin did not keep his seigneury for long. On November 3, 1673, he sold it to Alexandre Berthier, captain in the Carignan regiment, already owner of a seigneury of two leagues of pront on two leagues of depth (Bellechasse or Berthier-en-bas). The former seigneury of Sieur Randin has become the prosperous little town of Berthierville.
Upon his arrival in New France, the governor of Frontenac employed Randin as an engineer.
In the summer of 1673, Randin drew up plans for Fort Frontenac and directed its construction.
A few years later, Randin drew a map of North America. He
signs this card "Randin the engineer and the obligee of the Cte ​​de Frontenac." (1)
In 1679, MM. de Frontenac and Duchesneau, governor and intendant of New France, granted to engineer Randin a land and seigneury located in Acadia, six leagues abreast by six leagues deep, to begin at a distance of the east northeast of the place called Minitiguich up to and including the small river of Heve with the islands and islets that were within the limits of the said concession.
Randin, who had the confidence of M. de Frontenac, traded despite the king's defenses.
On November 13, 1680, the intendant complained to the Minister of Seignelay that the governor of Frontenac, under the pretext of entrusting Mr. Randin with an embassy among the Outaouais, was sending him to trade, and that ' he had a company with him from which he made a profit:
"He (Frontenac) once again sent La Taupine this famous coureur de bois that I had arrested last year and of which I sent you the interrogation. It is the one he uses to carry his orders and to deal with the nations outaouaises and also for to carry the pelts which were left there by the named Randin who was this pretended ambassador with whom and his other associates, the governor had made a convention for the draft, of which I am sending you a copy collated on the original. " (1)
According to a letter from Cavelier de La Salle of August 22, 1682, Randin would have died during a trip to the Pays d'en Haut where he was going to invite the Sioux to go to Montreal.
In the summer of 1684, Antoine Randin de Builly, captain in the Picardy regiment, brother and heir of Hugues Randin, went to New France probably to settle the affairs of his succession.
On June 5, 1684, Mr. Randin de Builly donated to the Hôtel-Dieu de Québec the seigneury that MM, de Frontenac and Duchesneau had granted to his brother in 1679. He declared that this donation was made "for the pious and devout affection he had for the monastery of the so-called religious ladies. " In return, he asked the nuns of the Hôtel-Dieu to use in pious and charitable works the amount of half the value of the seigneury in question. (2)


(1) Archives du Canada, Correspondauce générale, vol. 5, c. II.
(2) Donation devant Genaplc, notaire à Québec, le 5 juin 1684

Hugues randin deth certificate.jpg
 

Robot

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Welcome To The Show...TTTeller!

Now... This is what I call a "Researcher"!
 

Charlie P. (NY)

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I think I'm missing something. Like any connection to Oak Island.

Fort Frontenac is a LONG way from Oak Island. 955 miles by boat.

The Norumbega stone is a poor & fairly modern copy (1980's according to the locals) of the Ramsund carving in Sweden. We've discussed that here before.
 
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Hi! I don’t think you’re “missing” anything, it was just a really hard research item to lay out in this blog.

The connection is, depending on where mirligueche actually was, and the original seigniurie tract map ( which no one seems to have) this engineer and cartographer likely owned Oak island or was its closest owner/neighbour.

What makes the old fort ( no one really talks about) interesting, is that a lot of archaeological finds were very similar to what they’re finding on Oak island. The stone just happens to be in the similar location. But I thought it was worth mentioning.

This was a “short post” but there is a lot of evidence and fact that signals were used, which also makes Oak Island a perfect location to that fort. The Fort Frontenac link is just evidence that the land owner of this area had experience building them. Sorry if it seemed confusing. Hard to walk through all the connecting research elements that make this interesting to me.

Again, these are just facts that I think warrant more research, and I’d love to learn more about them. I think Hugues Randin is an important link to the story. Even if it’s just understanding Oak Island’s origins for things like the paved road!
 
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Ha. Thanks.

This was sort of the short version, there’s a ton of other stuff that probably could be used to “support” my research interest.

While this isn’t so much a treasure theory, I’m just very interested in the origin story, because I think it needs to be established to understand what happened to Oak Island. The fact the the Augustines of Hotel Dieu also do not know what became of their own land is also really interesting to me, and piques my Hugues Randin interest further.

If anyone has done any research on Hugues Randin, I’d love to know more. Hopefully the links I included help make sense of my interest. Look forward to learning more!
 

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Oh boy ! here we go again !

***ARC Yells for ECS***
 

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Singlestack Wonder

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No mystery at all....hoax island was a common island used for common things....
 
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I consider ECS a definite "debater of debaters".

I’m probably too new to know what that means “ECS”. Oak Island isn’t actually a primary interest of mine, but I kept coming across stuff that all seemed worthy of research! Would love any additional research on it. I guess I’m more enthralled by the origin story! I’ll try to get smarter with the lingo.
 

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I think I'm missing something. Like any connection to Oak Island.
Fort Frontenac is a LONG way from Oak Island. 955 miles by boat.
The Norumbega stone is a poor & fairly modern copy (1980's according to the locals) of the Ramsund carving in Sweden.
We've discussed that here before.
Indeed.
Even Franklin's pseudo historians haven't included Randin in their fabricated fantasy history of Oak Island.:thumbsup:
 
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No mystery at all....hoax island was a common island used for common things....

I don’t necessarily disagree with you. However, I do love history, and the stone road on Oak Island really caught my curiosity. Nevermind the treasure, I suppose, but the knowledge of area and period is quite fascinating to me. Especially since so many records seem to be unaccounted for. The lost map also really got me. While there’s probably more value in it for the Southern states, that link really made me interested in this man.
 
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Indeed.
Even Franklin's pseudo historians haven't included Randin in their fabricated fantasy history of Oak Island.:thumbsup:

Ha. I’m definitely not trying to fabricate fantasy. Ha. The facts are there regarding his land, but no one has ever really discussed him. He predates the money pit by more than a century, so this isn’t necessarily a treasure story. But there are for sure a lot of questions I’d love to learn more about. I think, I’m more interested in his connection to the area, and also
the “missing” fort on the second peninsula. For a series with 8 seasons I guess I’m amazed that they’ve looked at every angle, but never mentioned the people, like Hugues Randin, that actually existed there.
 
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Indeed.
Even Franklin's pseudo historians haven't included Randin in their fabricated fantasy history of Oak Island.:thumbsup:

Ha. I’m definitely not trying to fabricate fantasy. Ha. The facts are there regarding his land, but no one has ever really discussed him. He predates the money pit by more than a century, so this isn’t necessarily a treasure story. But there are for sure a lot of questions I’d love to learn more about. I think, I’m more interested in his connection to the area, and also
the “missing” fort on the second peninsula. For a series with 8 seasons I guess I’m amazed that they’ve looked at every angle, but never mentioned the people, like Hugues Randin, that actually existed there.
 
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"Similar artifacts" does not make an exclusive connection to Oak Island, but to hundreds of other sites in Canada and the US.

Don’t disagree with this statement either. But I feel, given the geography, it’s interesting.

Again, this post was really about getting some more research and light on the subject. I can understand why you all are probably exhausted by the onslaught of posts. But as no one had discussed all these weird “connections” I thought it was worth the post.

There’s a lot of lost history here it would seem. It just happens to tie into the early Oak Island geography and period. But, as it was out, this could just be a dead horse. Lol. Either way, I’d personally like to know more. I’d really like to see the land records and learn more about the Jolliet map.
 

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Btw TTTeller... Welcome to TreasureNet... :)
 

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