Gypsy Heart
Gold Member
Re: Sunday's finds
They are beautiful. Definately worth risking heat stroke over!
They are beautiful. Definately worth risking heat stroke over!
badandy
Hero Member
Re: Sunday's finds
I think you should send the little paleo point to me and then you can call it MINE! LOL! The other point tooks like a pickwick which resemble Adena points, but are found down south. All in all I'd say you had a good day.
badandy
I think you should send the little paleo point to me and then you can call it MINE! LOL! The other point tooks like a pickwick which resemble Adena points, but are found down south. All in all I'd say you had a good day.
badandy
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Atlantis0077
Guest
- #4
Thread Owner
Re: Sunday's finds
Hey Badandy,
Gotta agree with ya on that one...pickwick it is over Adena. It was so pretty laying in the water. You know I take a camera and never find any good stuff for in situ shots, but when I don't then one like that shows up. Go figure. Anyhow thanks for the input.
I plan on doing some serious lake searching in the next few weeks....right now I am too busy picking muscadines to do much else....have a rather extensive vineyard. That is a full-time job in itself.
Atlantis
Hey Badandy,
Gotta agree with ya on that one...pickwick it is over Adena. It was so pretty laying in the water. You know I take a camera and never find any good stuff for in situ shots, but when I don't then one like that shows up. Go figure. Anyhow thanks for the input.
I plan on doing some serious lake searching in the next few weeks....right now I am too busy picking muscadines to do much else....have a rather extensive vineyard. That is a full-time job in itself.
Atlantis
Cannonman17
Bronze Member
Re: Sunday's finds
Etly vs. Adena (there we go with the local names thing again) actually I don't believe that's the case with the etley vs adena, I think they are distinct types. I find lots of adenas but never an etley- all the adenas I've found never have those sharp barbs, but anyways... Very Nice finds! I would call it a great day! Does the paleo looking piece have basal grinding at all?
Etly vs. Adena (there we go with the local names thing again) actually I don't believe that's the case with the etley vs adena, I think they are distinct types. I find lots of adenas but never an etley- all the adenas I've found never have those sharp barbs, but anyways... Very Nice finds! I would call it a great day! Does the paleo looking piece have basal grinding at all?
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Atlantis0077
Guest
- #6
Thread Owner
Re: Sunday's finds
Morning Cannonman,
Yep it does. Makes me sick actually to think about this place. Its a small island that comes out of the water as the lake drops. It has been out for several rounds and last year, after it had been walked, scratched and sifted by literally hundreds of folks, myself included, I thought it could produce no more.
The 'makes me sick' part comes from the fact that the first two times the island came out, I was unable to dig on it, so missed all the goodies that I know were there. I talked with an old man there that said his grand kids found buckets of arrowheads on the island...normally I would dismiss such claims, but figure there is a good chance that a bucket full or two was found on this place....and old ones as well. I found several San Patrice and a couple of Daltons on this place, and now this little one shows up. Oh man, what they probably found there.
Toledo is dropping like a toilet flush with this 100+ weather. I just hope I can stand the heat, or that it will start to cool down into the tolerable mid 90's soon. There is NO shade in a dry lake bed....like being in White Sands...lol I will continue to post photos of my finds from there. Hopefully a few keepers will show....however last year pickins were slim after a while.....too many sets of eyes going over the same terrain.
I am hoping for a great Scotty this year.
Happy Hunting,
Atlantis.
Morning Cannonman,
Yep it does. Makes me sick actually to think about this place. Its a small island that comes out of the water as the lake drops. It has been out for several rounds and last year, after it had been walked, scratched and sifted by literally hundreds of folks, myself included, I thought it could produce no more.
The 'makes me sick' part comes from the fact that the first two times the island came out, I was unable to dig on it, so missed all the goodies that I know were there. I talked with an old man there that said his grand kids found buckets of arrowheads on the island...normally I would dismiss such claims, but figure there is a good chance that a bucket full or two was found on this place....and old ones as well. I found several San Patrice and a couple of Daltons on this place, and now this little one shows up. Oh man, what they probably found there.
Toledo is dropping like a toilet flush with this 100+ weather. I just hope I can stand the heat, or that it will start to cool down into the tolerable mid 90's soon. There is NO shade in a dry lake bed....like being in White Sands...lol I will continue to post photos of my finds from there. Hopefully a few keepers will show....however last year pickins were slim after a while.....too many sets of eyes going over the same terrain.
I am hoping for a great Scotty this year.
Happy Hunting,
Atlantis.
Cannonman17
Bronze Member
Re: Sunday's finds
Wow, I can't imagine a site like that, you're lucky. I have a lot of sites to go looking at but none with that heavy of artifact concentration. In fact the best day I ever had was 10 points (including borken ones). I also can't imagine hundreds or even dozens for that matter, of people hunting a site. When ever I metion artifact hunting to people around here most of them look at me like I'm crazy- some even say "I didin't know you could still find them, I thought they were all picked up by now." I guess it's a trade off, not as many artifacts but very little if any competition also..
I have a couple of sites that are sort of similar, they are under a lake now. There's two HUGE lakes here where the wisconsin river has been damned up, one after another and there are lots of sites on the old river banks but it's not often I get to go looking. Every spring they lower the water level when the ice starts to break up- they only lower it for a short time though and most years the ice doesn't melt enough to expose all the ground before they raise the water levels back up again. Once in a blue moon I hit it lucky where I get there at just the right time when the ice has melted enough to expose the ground and the water level hasn't risen yet.. very cool.. you can make out everything from the camps, it's like somebody removed all the top soil and left the artifacts in situ. Can see camp fire rings, lithic manufacture areas etc. I had a friend who found a pottery vessel in one of the fire pits.. I know there's even more sites but they are so hard to get to... only get the chance once every 5-10 years or so and then you have to deal with the endless miles of mud/sand flats.. if you walk out there you run the risk of being a LONG way from shore when they decide to raise the water level again.
At any rate.. nice stuff, I wish I had places like that to go to.. I look forward to seeing more of your stuff.
Wow, I can't imagine a site like that, you're lucky. I have a lot of sites to go looking at but none with that heavy of artifact concentration. In fact the best day I ever had was 10 points (including borken ones). I also can't imagine hundreds or even dozens for that matter, of people hunting a site. When ever I metion artifact hunting to people around here most of them look at me like I'm crazy- some even say "I didin't know you could still find them, I thought they were all picked up by now." I guess it's a trade off, not as many artifacts but very little if any competition also..
I have a couple of sites that are sort of similar, they are under a lake now. There's two HUGE lakes here where the wisconsin river has been damned up, one after another and there are lots of sites on the old river banks but it's not often I get to go looking. Every spring they lower the water level when the ice starts to break up- they only lower it for a short time though and most years the ice doesn't melt enough to expose all the ground before they raise the water levels back up again. Once in a blue moon I hit it lucky where I get there at just the right time when the ice has melted enough to expose the ground and the water level hasn't risen yet.. very cool.. you can make out everything from the camps, it's like somebody removed all the top soil and left the artifacts in situ. Can see camp fire rings, lithic manufacture areas etc. I had a friend who found a pottery vessel in one of the fire pits.. I know there's even more sites but they are so hard to get to... only get the chance once every 5-10 years or so and then you have to deal with the endless miles of mud/sand flats.. if you walk out there you run the risk of being a LONG way from shore when they decide to raise the water level again.
At any rate.. nice stuff, I wish I had places like that to go to.. I look forward to seeing more of your stuff.
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Atlantis0077
Guest
- #8
Thread Owner
Re: Sunday's finds
Hey CM,
Its not all "fortune and glory" Toledo is dropping, but before it was a lake it was the Sabine River bottom. It was inhabited and farmed before the lake...in 1968. Still there were vast areas that were more or less uninhabitable...in many of these was what was called by the locals..."the old saline" essentially they were huge salty mud flats. VERY dangerous....you stomp the ground and it actually shakes like jello....one wrong step and you are up to your waist in mud...two wrong ...well you get the picture. So care must be taken at all times to avoid these places....bad thing is they are impossible to discern from the other terrain.
There are spots all out in the lake where there were lots of artifacts. In times past no one knew or cared about such things, but now with the advent of ebay and internet everyone is out to make a quick buck and they see Indian relics as the new "gold rush" in my area. People risk life and limb...example....last year during hurricane Rita we had winds over 100 mph here and lightening and rain....there were something like 25 people in the lake bed picking up points during the height of the storm....now that is just insane.
I have looked the shores for more than 30 years and never cease to be amazed that stuff still keeps washing up. This year will be the lowest drop, but 5 years ago was probably the best for collecting....in one day a friend and I found over 60 points...plus broken stuff. My personal best has been 40 points in a day, but that is rare. I call it good if I find 5 or more per trip.
I hope to have lots of photos of stuff to post in the next 2 months
.....I will make some lake shots to show you just for reference I will be standing where the water is normally 8' deep. Funny, boat fishing in the spring.....4 wheeler riding in the fall.
Happy Hunting
Atlantis
Hey CM,
Its not all "fortune and glory" Toledo is dropping, but before it was a lake it was the Sabine River bottom. It was inhabited and farmed before the lake...in 1968. Still there were vast areas that were more or less uninhabitable...in many of these was what was called by the locals..."the old saline" essentially they were huge salty mud flats. VERY dangerous....you stomp the ground and it actually shakes like jello....one wrong step and you are up to your waist in mud...two wrong ...well you get the picture. So care must be taken at all times to avoid these places....bad thing is they are impossible to discern from the other terrain.
There are spots all out in the lake where there were lots of artifacts. In times past no one knew or cared about such things, but now with the advent of ebay and internet everyone is out to make a quick buck and they see Indian relics as the new "gold rush" in my area. People risk life and limb...example....last year during hurricane Rita we had winds over 100 mph here and lightening and rain....there were something like 25 people in the lake bed picking up points during the height of the storm....now that is just insane.
I have looked the shores for more than 30 years and never cease to be amazed that stuff still keeps washing up. This year will be the lowest drop, but 5 years ago was probably the best for collecting....in one day a friend and I found over 60 points...plus broken stuff. My personal best has been 40 points in a day, but that is rare. I call it good if I find 5 or more per trip.
I hope to have lots of photos of stuff to post in the next 2 months
.....I will make some lake shots to show you just for reference I will be standing where the water is normally 8' deep. Funny, boat fishing in the spring.....4 wheeler riding in the fall.Happy Hunting
Atlantis
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Atlantis0077
Guest
- #9
Thread Owner
Re: Sunday's finds
Here are a couple of frames of typical Toledo Bend points for reference. Most aren't spectacular...a lot of gravel chert...browns, reds, yellows, tans. Many aren't perfect...in fact most aren't. Now and then you do find a really nice one along with the mediocre. Especially noteworthy are the paleo and archaic points you find there....some are really nice.
Happy Hunting,
Atlantis
Here are a couple of frames of typical Toledo Bend points for reference. Most aren't spectacular...a lot of gravel chert...browns, reds, yellows, tans. Many aren't perfect...in fact most aren't. Now and then you do find a really nice one along with the mediocre. Especially noteworthy are the paleo and archaic points you find there....some are really nice.
Happy Hunting,
Atlantis
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okieplowboy
Guest
- #10
Thread Owner
Re: Sunday's finds
nice frames ..thanks for sharing.....and i know what you mean about the heat, of course it still isn't keeping me from going hunting
nice frames ..thanks for sharing.....and i know what you mean about the heat, of course it still isn't keeping me from going hunting
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Atlantis0077
Guest
- #11
Thread Owner
Re: Sunday's finds
Howdy,
A new weekend and a few more points...nothing spectacular. I did hear that some of my "associates" on the lake found a 7" Red River knife and a 12" tang knife. Probably wont see the 12 incher, but know the guy with the 7" well and it sounds like its made from Palm wood....very thin and well chipped....makes me sick......lol Also another Clovis was found along with 4 or 5 scottsbluff points. Well this weekend wasn't so kind to me, but hey, I don't spend every waking hour walking the lake bottom either. Though hearing what is being found, perhaps I should consider it.
Atlantis
Howdy,
A new weekend and a few more points...nothing spectacular. I did hear that some of my "associates" on the lake found a 7" Red River knife and a 12" tang knife. Probably wont see the 12 incher, but know the guy with the 7" well and it sounds like its made from Palm wood....very thin and well chipped....makes me sick......lol Also another Clovis was found along with 4 or 5 scottsbluff points. Well this weekend wasn't so kind to me, but hey, I don't spend every waking hour walking the lake bottom either. Though hearing what is being found, perhaps I should consider it.
Atlantis
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Cannonman17
Bronze Member
Re: Sunday's finds
Atlantis- NICE FINDS. You really don't have a clue though do you? A clue as to how lucky you are!!! I would be so happy to have any kind of an artifact concentration around here. You're "okay" weekend would honestly take me between 30-50 hours of hunting to match, no lie. Keep up the good work!
Atlantis- NICE FINDS. You really don't have a clue though do you? A clue as to how lucky you are!!! I would be so happy to have any kind of an artifact concentration around here. You're "okay" weekend would honestly take me between 30-50 hours of hunting to match, no lie. Keep up the good work!
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Atlantis0077
Guest
- #13
Thread Owner
Re: Sunday's finds
Hey Cannonman,
Yea, I guess I am spoiled. But honestly you just cant imagine what I have seen come out of Toledo Bend.....At one of the sites that came out 5 years ago. It was in my own backyard so to speak and I didn't know it was there....when a friend and I were headed out, these guys were coming in....they had over 140 points they picked up that morning...some really nice....One petrified Clovis that looked as though it might have even had some Folsom influence....spectacular. So I don't get too excited by the little stuff like that when I know what is out there.
You are right though, if not in something like a lake bottom where everything is washed clean and waiting...no digging, no roots, no snakes, no redbugs or poison ivy....its a difficult task to find many points at a time.
I am still hoping for that scottsbluff. I have found 3 in the lake in 30 years, so this might just be my time.
Happy Hunting
Atlantis
Hey Cannonman,
Yea, I guess I am spoiled. But honestly you just cant imagine what I have seen come out of Toledo Bend.....At one of the sites that came out 5 years ago. It was in my own backyard so to speak and I didn't know it was there....when a friend and I were headed out, these guys were coming in....they had over 140 points they picked up that morning...some really nice....One petrified Clovis that looked as though it might have even had some Folsom influence....spectacular. So I don't get too excited by the little stuff like that when I know what is out there.
You are right though, if not in something like a lake bottom where everything is washed clean and waiting...no digging, no roots, no snakes, no redbugs or poison ivy....its a difficult task to find many points at a time.
I am still hoping for that scottsbluff. I have found 3 in the lake in 30 years, so this might just be my time.
Happy Hunting
Atlantis
Cannonman17
Bronze Member
Re: Sunday's finds
I get excited about EVERY point.. they are so hard to come by up hear. My theory is that I'm just a little to far north. Even southern Wisconsin has it's fair share of points- I've been in fields down by the WI/IL border where me and my cousin would walk out with 10-20 points between us. I'm far enough north though that agriculture wasn't so productive.. the growing season was (and still is) too short here so there wasn't any big growth in the population here with the advent of agriculture. The exception being southern wisconin and the door county pennisula that sticks out into lake michigan (there the lake effect provided for a longer growing season). If you look at the Mississippian period down south and around here there's a huge difference- south you have large villages (and a lot of artifacts!) and around here during that same time frame you still find evidence of people living a semi nomadic (almsot archaic) type life style. I really believe that the archaic tradition actually lasted longer up here and since the living conditions were harsher, we never really had the kind of pre historic populations of people that you find starting around the WI/IL border and south. Combine that with the fact that I live in an old glacial lake bottom that covers several counties where there is nothing but sand... no top soil, pretty limited resource base, no chert or flint of any type for a LONG ways, and we just don't find a lot of stuff. I really spend hours to find a single point many times I will spend 6-8 hours and get skunked, keep in mind that I know the sites around here like nobody else- I'm not just walking random places, these are my "good" sites... then I see your "okay" weekend and I want to cry. I would LOVE to have just one of your "okay" weekends!
I get excited about EVERY point.. they are so hard to come by up hear. My theory is that I'm just a little to far north. Even southern Wisconsin has it's fair share of points- I've been in fields down by the WI/IL border where me and my cousin would walk out with 10-20 points between us. I'm far enough north though that agriculture wasn't so productive.. the growing season was (and still is) too short here so there wasn't any big growth in the population here with the advent of agriculture. The exception being southern wisconin and the door county pennisula that sticks out into lake michigan (there the lake effect provided for a longer growing season). If you look at the Mississippian period down south and around here there's a huge difference- south you have large villages (and a lot of artifacts!) and around here during that same time frame you still find evidence of people living a semi nomadic (almsot archaic) type life style. I really believe that the archaic tradition actually lasted longer up here and since the living conditions were harsher, we never really had the kind of pre historic populations of people that you find starting around the WI/IL border and south. Combine that with the fact that I live in an old glacial lake bottom that covers several counties where there is nothing but sand... no top soil, pretty limited resource base, no chert or flint of any type for a LONG ways, and we just don't find a lot of stuff. I really spend hours to find a single point many times I will spend 6-8 hours and get skunked, keep in mind that I know the sites around here like nobody else- I'm not just walking random places, these are my "good" sites... then I see your "okay" weekend and I want to cry. I would LOVE to have just one of your "okay" weekends!
A
Atlantis0077
Guest
- #15
Thread Owner
Re: Sunday's finds
I hear you CM,
I love to look...lol...not watch...look. I am going to take off an extra day or two...probably just one to do some searching over the holiday weekend...fight the crowd is what it will amount to. If I don't come up with anything decent, I will just pull a few points from my frames that I found in the lake in years past to give you an idea of what is there.
For the most part pottery is gone..just pieces. Wave actions tends to break it off as it emerges from the soil on the lakebed. Rock is still there though...so points axes, celts etc are in perfect shape. Got word from a friend yesterday he knows where some prime spots are for digging, unfortunately its about a hundred miles from me....guess who will be driving. Will have to wait till winter and the end of deer season though.
Happy hunting
Atlantis
I hear you CM,
I love to look...lol...not watch...look.
I am going to take off an extra day or two...probably just one to do some searching over the holiday weekend...fight the crowd is what it will amount to. If I don't come up with anything decent, I will just pull a few points from my frames that I found in the lake in years past to give you an idea of what is there. For the most part pottery is gone..just pieces. Wave actions tends to break it off as it emerges from the soil on the lakebed. Rock is still there though...so points axes, celts etc are in perfect shape. Got word from a friend yesterday he knows where some prime spots are for digging, unfortunately its about a hundred miles from me....guess who will be driving.
Will have to wait till winter and the end of deer season though.Happy hunting
Atlantis
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Re: Sunday's finds
Atlantis,
Awesome, Awesome, Awesome.
RR
Atlantis,
Awesome, Awesome, Awesome.
RR
Oroblanco
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Re: Sunday's finds
Atlantis, good gosh you are lucky! I am GREEN with envy!!! I feel myself fortunate if I find ONE point, or a few shards of pottery! Pretty cool spot you have to hunt, despite the heat! (pun intended) Good luck and good hunting, thanks for sharing the pix!
Oroblanco
"We must find a way, or we will make one." --Hannibal Barca
Atlantis, good gosh you are lucky! I am GREEN with envy!!! I feel myself fortunate if I find ONE point, or a few shards of pottery! Pretty cool spot you have to hunt, despite the heat! (pun intended) Good luck and good hunting, thanks for sharing the pix!
Oroblanco
"We must find a way, or we will make one." --Hannibal Barca
