The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS & Pulse Devil

[Michigan Badger]

The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS & Pulse Devil

The Garrett Infinium LS Metal Detector w/10x14" Coil is one machine I haven't owned...yet.

This detector interests me due to some claims of extreme depth.

Has anyone here used this machine?

How does in perform in salt and fresh water?

Anyone here use it on land in trashy areas?

How does the discrimination work?

Do tell all.

Badger

 

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[neilo]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS

If you are considering getting one make sure it is a later model the later one is more sensitive and will find smaller things at a greater depth.If you are thinking about using it in the water go for the smaller coil,the bigger coils are very hard to push through the water creating a lot of drag, and are also harder to pin point. Not good in trash filled areas, need to use smaller coil to help locate targets.seeya Neilo

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS

If you are considering getting one make sure it is a later model the later one is more sensitive and will find smaller things at a greater depth.If you are thinking about using it in the water go for the smaller coil,the bigger coils are very hard to push through the water creating a lot of drag, and are also harder to pin point. Not good in trash filled areas, need to use smaller coil to help locate targets.seeya Neilo

Thanks much for your comments.

I see you use the Excalibur. How does the Excal compare with the Infinium?

I'm honestly seeking to know about this rather mysterious detector (the Infinium). Online it's loved or hated. I've read it's better than Minelab and then I've read it's junk. I just am wondering and hoping this thread might shine some light on this ignored model (somewhat ignored).

Badger

 

[warsawdaddy]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS

I don't have one yet,either,but I saw several gold nuggets that detector found and you don't get them without being in heavy mineralized soil.

 

[Willy]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS

I had an Infinium and it's a very underrated detector. I've also had an Excalibur and 2 Sov's. The BBS detectors can't touch it for depth in mineralized ground (at least up here) and they aren't as sensitive to small low conductive targets. When it comes to trash, it depends on what kind and how deep. I'd give the nod to VLF TID on shallow stuff, but the Infinium beats them on deep stuff. This is due to it being able to give an 'ID' at full depth, unlike VLF's which show progressively degrading TID accuracy the deeper the target gets. The one major caveat regarding the Infinium is it's 2 tone ID and how it can make your head hurt listening to it for more than a few hours in a trashy area. The secondary tone also tends to 'drag' on large targets and is rather annoying. It's also built like a tank. In the hands of an experienced user, it's a surprisingly capable detector. Not a lawn hunter, but great for coin/ring/relic/gold hunting in extreme environments/mineralization and where one can dig deeeep holes. ..Willy.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS

I had an Infinium and it's a very underrated detector. I've also had an Excalibur and 2 Sov's. The BBS detectors can't touch it for depth in mineralized ground (at least up here) and they aren't as sensitive to small low conductive targets. When it comes to trash, it depends on what kind and how deep. I'd give the nod to VLF TID on shallow stuff, but the Infinium beats them on deep stuff. This is due to it being able to give an 'ID' at full depth, unlike VLF's which show progressively degrading TID accuracy the deeper the target gets. The one major caveat regarding the Infinium is it's 2 tone ID and how it can make your head hurt listening to it for more than a few hours in a trashy area. The secondary tone also tends to 'drag' on large targets and is rather annoying. It's also built like a tank. In the hands of an experienced us/er, it's a surprisingly capable detector. Not a lawn hunter, but great for coin/ring/relic/gold hunting in extreme environments/mineralization and where one can dig deeeep holes. ..Willy.

Willy I wonder why more U.S. Civil War relic hunters don't use the Infinium LS ? Seems like it would be just the thing for those lower trash fields.

Badger

 

[Sandman]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS

I've only used the Infinium twice and loved it. However I am getting more tired digging deep holes and the body can't take it anymore. I liked the High/Low or Low/High tone to help id targets, but it takes some getting used to. I always thought I would get one, but haven't yet. It is deeper than the Excal or many other detectors I've used at the beach. It should be good for relics, but I never got into the woods with the one that was loaned to me.

As Neilo says,

If you are thinking about using it in the water go for the smaller coil,the bigger coils are very hard to push through the water creating a lot of drag, and are also harder to pin point.

 

[Willy]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS

The Infinium could do with a few modification. One would be a sensitivity control, another would be to eliminate the dragging second tone, third would be a PB switch that would momentarily put the pulse delay at max. Seems to me that, when the Infinium was first introduced, that there was a concerted effort to slag it. People were coming up with all sorts of ridiculous reasons why it was a sub-par detector. One guy even went on about a 'wiggly' control rod... as if that made it less effective. Well, if someone reeaaaally wants to lay out 3-4 grand for a detector, more power to him. At least Garrett doesn't come out with a new high-dollar detector (with questionable improvements) every year. Check out the number of used Minelab PI's on the various gold forum classifieds. Also, I have little respect for a company that won't (remember, 3-4 grand) even make the coils waterproof. I'd expect that from cheap, made in China cr@p.. but a reputable (?) company like Minelab? As for relic hunters, I know of at least one that used an Infinium.
I debated getting another Infinium, but figured that I'd wait for the Pulse Devil to be released. It will probably end up costing me twice as much, but will have the features that I require to hunt in many of the areas up here. As for the small vs. large coils.. even the small ones go scary deep. I had all of them and did some comparison tests. ..Willy.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS

I'd expect that from cheap, made in China cr@p..

As for the small vs. large coils.. even the small ones go scary deep. I had all of them and did some comparison tests. ..Willy.

LOL! Most of the Chinese crapers have excellent waterproof coils...

But I know what you mean. This is something I could never figure out about Nautilus. They have loads of potential but it's like nobody at the company even cares. They totally ignore all their customers and refuse to even change that dumb on/off switch! All machines have to be modified with a Whites rod or they'll kill your back. I sometimes wonder if we Americans want to lose all our jobs.

But as for the Infinium, did you ever check one on a buried dime or quarter sized coin?

Badger

 

[Willy]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS

On my favorite freshwater beach (and in the water) I was hunting loonies, toonies, and deep silver with great success. On the beach, which is hunted by many a detector (for many years) during spring/summer/fall, it was almost as if it had never been hunted before. I was pulling up so much deep silver it was nuts. I'd also hit this area with ML BBS detectors sporting WOT coils. They got nary a peep from these targets. That's why I'm so hot on getting a Pulse devil, when it's finally released; it will pay for itself within a short while just in silver. The thing about the PD is that it will give PI depth with VLF ID/disc. at full depth. My favorite beach is carpeted with iron on the hardpan and the PD is reported to be able to easily distinguish between ferrous/non-ferrous at depth. ..Willy.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS

On my favorite freshwater beach (and in the water) I was hunting loonies, toonies, and deep silver with great success. On the beach, which is hunted by many a detector (for many years) during spring/summer/fall, it was almost as if it had never been hunted before. I was pulling up so much deep silver it was nuts. I'd also hit this area with ML BBS detectors sporting WOT coils. They got nary a peep from these targets. That's why I'm so hot on getting a Pulse devil, when it's finally released; it will pay for itself within a short while just in silver. The thing about the PD is that it will give PI depth with VLF ID/disc. at full depth. My favorite beach is carpeted with iron on the hardpan and the PD is reported to be able to easily distinguish between ferrous/non-ferrous at depth. ..Willy.

WOW! Thanks Willy!

Who is making this new PD machine and how do I track it's progress? Do you have any idea of what it will cost?

Badger

 

[bakergeol]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS

On my favorite freshwater beach (and in the water) I was hunting loonies, toonies, and deep silver with great success. On the beach, which is hunted by many a detector (for many years) during spring/summer/fall, it was almost as if it had never been hunted before. I was pulling up so much deep silver it was nuts. I'd also hit this area with ML BBS detectors sporting WOT coils. They got nary a peep from these targets. That's why I'm so hot on getting a Pulse devil, when it's finally released; it will pay for itself within a short while just in silver. The thing about the PD is that it will give PI depth with VLF ID/disc. at full depth. My favorite beach is carpeted with iron on the hardpan and the PD is reported to be able to easily distinguish between ferrous/non-ferrous at depth. ..Willy.

WOW! Thanks Willy!

Who is making this new PD machine and how do I track it's progress? Do you have any idea of what it will cost?

Badger

The Cannonball thread on this forum had some information I posted. Cost will be $2000. Here is a copy of one of my responses.

Here is a link for the PD- This forum prospectinginoz is the forum where Dave Emery posts information about the PD.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ProspectinginOz/message/2881
Do a Pulse Devil search and go back to previous posts for additional information.
He even has a short list of metal detector dealers who will be selling the PD( I am on one dealers list).
The PD is currently being tested in Europe however when Dave will release it for production is at present unknown.
Here is my thinking. We are about at the end of the road for what we can do with VLF technology.
The great limiting factor for VLFs is that they all are affected by ground mineralization. Ground mineralization limits the depth of a VLF and it's ability to ID an object with depth. You will quickly find the "iffy" zone with a VLF for metal ID for deep items. This exists because the deeper one goes the more ground mineralization your VLF reads and conversely good targets read toward the iron end.

PIs are different because they are not affected by ground mineralization to the same degree as VLFs. That is why they are popular(with ground balancing) in mineralized nugget areas as they have great depth. The first time I used a ML SD2200 I was blow away by it's depth. It made my Ex2 and X-5 look like a Radio Shack toy in the depth department, however, it couldn't discriminate. So the "holy grail" has always been a PI that had true effective discrimination.

So the race is on to develop the first true discriminating PI or a PI with a discrimination circuit similar to a VLFs. It will be the next level above the VLF in technology. There is a French company coming coming out with the Adonis. Alan W. is working on the GoldSweeper. White's will introduce a discriminating PI this year.

The issue is more than just a leap in depth. It is more accurate metal ID with depth as PIs are not affected by ground mineralization as VLFs are. Dave's PD will have a TID function for coin shooting and relic hunting.

George

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS

So the "holy grail" has always been a PI that had true effective discrimination.

George

Great post and thanks for bringing it all together again on this thread.

Most of us old timers have dreamed of a machine to go beyond the great limitations of VLF so maybe it'll finally be here in our lifetimes.

George can you even imagine the killing those first owners of a true discriminating PI will make on our beaches? Those beach sweepers only get the stuff the VLF's can reach. Down 15 to 30+ inches deep is a wealth of loot on the more affluent beaches (this would include Spanish galleon treasure at certain locations).

Landfill in parks and basement backfill by most houses has the really old stuff far beyond the reach of any VLF detector. We've all known this for years but had no way to deal with it.

I recently saw that our local church had some digging going on so after the workers were gone I detected the bottom of the 12 inch deep trench they had dug and 8 inches deeper I dug an antique pearl heart pendant. When they built the new church in the 60's they pushed all the basement extra dirt out from the new building over the original church grounds.

The problem for most hobbyists is going to be the price of these future mega hot machines. Few will be able to spend $2000 so this brings us back to the Infinium LS.

So as of now maybe the Infinium is the only way the poorer folks will have a shot at the really deep stuff?

Badger

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS

I don't have one yet,either,but I saw several gold nuggets that detector found and you don't get them without being in heavy mineralized soil.

I'd sure like to try one out at some sites. The beach would be one of my first stops.

Badger

 

[U.K. Brian]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS & Pulse Devil

Why does no Infinium owner mention that the discrimination works by giving a low/high tone for some metals and a high/low for others. No problem until you realise that wanted items come in both catagories.
Its also untrue that P.I.'s don't pick up ground effect which is why some Eric Foster designs had a ground balance control and the Minelab machines use a combination of long and short pulses.
The 'new' Whites P.I. looks like its to be a re boxed Eric Foster GS5. If so its unlikely to match his own version which has gone through a few revisions already with the GS5B already being used in Australia.
To go back to the Infinium... the other snag is which version do you need. When I tested the first one in the U.K. it was so noisy on the beach that any depth advantage was thrown away. They have never really sold since. Later versions got rechipped with a different version for Australia than the U.S. One is supposed to give more depth, the other to have slightly better discrimination. The problem with this is there's areas in Australia with similar ground conditions to the U.S. and vise versa.
The Adonis, which seemed to work O.K. on the beach back in May last year is still being delayed and Allen Westersteins Goldsweeper doesn't look as though its going to be multi use or why is he working on a Coinsweeper version ?

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS & Pulse Devil

Its also untrue that P.I.'s don't pick up ground effect which is why some Eric Foster designs had a ground balance control and the Minelab machines use a combination of long and short pulses.

Brian I didn't want to post yet because I was hoping one of the knowledgeable posters would chime in on this comment.

But, while we're waiting for them to post, I'd like to ask a straight forward question as one who knows almost nothing about this subject.

Do you think PI discrimination is the great future of hobby detecting or will there be new advancements in VLF technology?

Badger

 

[Willy]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS & Pulse Devil

The Minelab PI's have varied pulses. The Infinium 'sees' small iron as a low conductor and large iron as a high conductor, along with most silver. Advancing the pulse delay causes 2 things to happen with the Infinium. 1st, the small iron starts to drop out (discriminated) and lower conductors become affected; much like a conventional VLF disc. 2nd, the high/low conductor shift point advances to the point (depending on disc. setting) where silver starts to read as a low conductor. Large iron will still read as a high conductor. Advancing the disc., like on some VLF's (thumbing) will help to distinguish between silver and large iron, as well as listening to the secondary tone. The reason why the modification was made to the Infinium was because of issues with the mono coils, not the mineralization in Australia. Minelab Pi's also have a tone ID system that works much like the Infinium, but it is meant for near surface targets, not stuff at depth. The GS5 also has a 2 tone system. ..Willy. BTW, It was the Garrett GTI/GTP VLF detectors that had the chip mod. for Australian (and N. American) soil conditions.

 

[bakergeol]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS & Pulse Devil

Its also untrue that P.I.'s don't pick up ground effect which is why some Eric Foster designs had a ground balance control and the Minelab machines use a combination of long and short pulses.

Brian I didn't want to post yet because I was hoping one of the knowledgeable posters would chime in on this comment.

But, while we're waiting for them to post, I'd like to ask a straight forward question as one who knows almost nothing about this subject.

Do you think PI discrimination is the great future of hobby detecting or will there be new advancements in VLF technology?

Badger

Brian's statement is correct, however at least no one here has suggested that PIs aren't affected by ground mineralization. They are just better at handling ground mineralization than VLFs. Indeed one of Eric's selling points on the GS5 is that it could handle very severe mineralization in Oz(also interference) better than Minelabs GPs.

My understanding about the Infinium was that an Oz dealer really over hyped the machine and when it failed to meet the hype- a lot of bad feelings ensued. However, the main put down of the Infinium was that it was not as sensitive as Minelab's SD and GP series. The fact that it lacked a wide selection of coils also hurt. Prospectors in AZ and OZ don't have a huge iron problem so for them only depth matters .So the Infinium was trashed because it didn't have the depth as Minelab SD and GP series. The fact that the Infinium is 1/4 the cost of the GPX4000, is waterproof and has better iron ID has become a moot point. A lot has been written about the GPX 4000 depth capabilities but nada-nothing about it's iron ID capabilities. In other words we are playing with Minelab's rules that depth is important whereas discrimination isn't. However, the rules reverse when you use a PI in iron infested sites common to most VLF users.

This will be a problem for future entries into the PI world. Simply a lot of Minelab loyalists and the detector will be judged by depth only by the prospecting community. I don't think any inventor wants his detector to be treated like the Infinium was.

By the way a tester for one of white's new machines stated that an anouncement of a new White's machine will be made before July 4. He could not reveil that it was the new PI but as the thread was entitled "White's new PI" it does suggest it. We will then see if it is a GS5 clone.

By the way if there are any Infinium owners in Colorado I would like to meet with you. I have a mag setup with my GS5(ferrous hound) and I was wondering if it would work as well on an Infinium. On the Infinium low/high tones will be high conductor coins as well as large iron. Strongly Iding the large iron with the mag would make the Infinium a great high conductor coin detector with the low/high tones.

George

 

[U.K. Brian]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS & Pulse Devil

I've nothing against the GS5 or 5B's discrimination but the Garrett system doesn't suit the European detecting needs as gold hunting is not a priority (though we do have some). I suggested that a push button mode change to provide a 'normal' pulse sound output until discrimination is needed would save a great deal of ear ache but this didn't come about.
According to the Australian sites it was the Infinium that had a chip change. I don't know about the GTI but many machines back to the Garrett Groundhog had to be modified in one way or another to deal with the extreme conditions.
It will be interesting to see how/if the ferrous hound works on the Infinium. It should as long as its placed correctly central for mono loops and offset for double D. It would put the Infinium in another,upper, price range which is O.K. in the U.S. where its a cheap machine but its not in other parts of the world. I think the British price started at £999 ($2000) but it later dropped back a little. The Ferrous Hound isn't exactly cheap either.

I have to admit pinning my hopes on the Pulse Devil as the performance on our hammered silver pennies on the original prototype was really impressive. Ground conditions have to be considered though and if your on neutral soil all metal on many top range VLF's is impressive at a fraction of the price. I'm not certain extreme depth is needed or wanted by most detectorists. You have to be physically able to dig the hole which consumes time when you could be covering much more ground at a lesser depth with another machine. Is the discrimination going to be good enough. Where my older finds are made the ground is littered with 3000 years of rubbish and the effects of target masking and its effect on discrimination can't be ignored.

 

[bakergeol]

Re: The BEST Kept Secret THE Garrett Infinium LS & Pulse Devil

I imagine all users of the 2 tone PIs (Infinium and GS5) would like to have seen some new improvements made. For us GS5 users who use the GB mainly for metal ID- a push button mode that moves the GB level up for at least 3 different settings for metal ID would be nice.

I imagine the lack of popularity of the Infinium and GS5 is mainly due to price and a very different learning curve with no digital meters and rudimentary metal ID. I actually like it this way as my competition are VLF users or PIs without iron discrimination.

Well who will buy the Pulse Devil? Well probably not that many on this forum as a $250 Ace 250 is the most popular model here and a $2000 PD would be beyond the budget of newbies. In addition,certainly one can't dig monster holes in your local park as locations would be limited where you could dig large holes.

However judging by the number of folks buying $4000 Minelab GPX4000s- there is a market for VERY HIGH END machines. Being able to use it nugget hunting as well as relic/coin hunting would have an advantage over ML PIs.

I once put this question on a popular coin/relic forum. Would you buy a $3000 machine if you would receive significant gains in depth and metal ID? The answer was YES- there are a thundering herd of affluent metal detector fanatics out there.

I believe the popularity of the PD as a cross over into the coin/relic market will not really depend just on depth but with accurate TID with depth. According to Dave the PD's TID is really close to total depth. According to Dave the European field testing on the PD has gone far better than he expected.(I guess they were using a PD disguised in another metal detector's box). Of course field testing is the only true test. So I guess time will tell.

George