The Big Rebel Mine

[gollum]

Had a very interesting day yesterday. While Woody and I were at the Mining Museum in Humbolt (AZ). We started talking to a guy whose family donated 90% of all the displays in the Museum. His family had been mining in the area since the 1880s. While pointing out some of the old mines in the mountains, he said one name that rang a bell.......... THE BIG REBEL MINE! One of the few things Jacob Waltz ever put his name to, and one of the three mines he was on claim for in the Bradshaws (until he got screwed over).

He told us that if we had a half hour (HAHAHA Turned into about three hours), he would take us up there. Needless to say, we jumped in the truck and headed to the mountains. For about halfway, I could have driven a two wheel drive, not too bad. Once we had to cross a gulch (Galena Gulch), things got really edgy (especially since all the recent fires then torrential rains washed everything out. We stopped along the way, as he pointed out several of the old mine sites, and a couple of old mining towns (that no longer exist except as stone foundations and flat spots).

We finally arrived at the Big Rebel, John showed us where the old track bed from the mine was (the tracks themselves had been taken):

View attachment 1479739

Then, the Big Rebel Herself!

View attachment 1479740

Doesn't look very big from that angle does it? She is actually about 25 or so feet across. Here is a shot of John and Woody I took from the opposite side of the pit:



I will post some more pics, when I get to a better internet connection. I currently have my laptop tethered to a 2G Cellphone, which is excrucuatingly slow, and TNet keeps timing out when I am trying to load pics.

The trip to the Big Rebel was cut a bit shorter than I had hoped. As I was ground searching for some good pieces of ore, something kept hissing at me from the front of Woody's Truck. Wasn't worried, because it was a hiss and not a rattle (LOTS of Mojave Green Rattlers in this area). When I got closer, the hiss turned out to be more dangerous than I had thought. On the trail up to the mine, a sharp rock had punctured the sidewall of a tire. We tried to get down quickly on the ever flattening tire, but no luck. We wound up changing out for the spare on a bad angle, with the factory crap jack. At least the spare wasn't flat! HAHAHA

Everything turned out okay, but then, we got a call that Big Bug Creek was running six feet above normal again (near the town of Mayer). A sudden downpour made everything run really high, and we must have missed Galena Gulch running high by less than an hour. More good luck!

Mike

 

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[azdave35]

Had a very interesting day yesterday. While Woody and I were at the Mining Museum in Humbolt (AZ). We started talking to a guy whose family donated 90% of all the displays in the Museum. His family had been mining in the area since the 1880s. While pointing out some of the old mines in the mountains, he said one name that rang a bell.......... THE BIG REBEL MINE! One of the few things Jacob Waltz ever put his name to, and one of the three mines he was on claim for in the Bradshaws (until he got screwed over).

He told us that if we had a half hour (HAHAHA Turned into about three hours), he would take us up there. Needless to say, we jumped in the truck and headed to the mountains. For about halfway, I could have driven a two wheel drive, not too bad. Once we had to cross a gulch (Galena Gulch), things got really edgy (especially since all the recent fires then torrential rains washed everything out. We stopped along the way, as he pointed out several of the old mine sites, and a couple of old mining towns (that no longer exist except as stone foundations and flat spots).

We finally arrived at the Big Rebel, John showed us where the old track bed from the mine was (the tracks themselves had been taken):

View attachment 1479739

Then, the Big Rebel Herself!

View attachment 1479740

Doesn't look very big from that angle does it? She is actually about 25 or so feet across. Here is a shot of John and Woody I took from the opposite side of the pit:

View attachment 1479741

I will post some more pics, when I get to a better internet connection. I currently have my laptop tethered to a 2G Cellphone, which is excrucuatingly slow, and TNet keeps timing out when I am trying to load pics.

The trip to the Big Rebel was cut a bit shorter than I had hoped. As I was ground searching for some good pieces of ore, something kept hissing at me from the front of Woody's Truck. Wasn't worried, because it was a hiss and not a rattle (LOTS of Mojave Green Rattlers in this area). When I got closer, the hiss turned out to be more dangerous than I had thought. On the trail up to the mine, a sharp rock had punctured the sidewall of a tire. We tried to get down quickly on the ever flattening tire, but no luck. We wound up changing out for the spare on a bad angle, with the factory crap jack. At least the spare wasn't flat! HAHAHA

Everything turned out okay, but then, we got a call that Big Bug Creek was running six feet above normal again (near the town of Mayer). A sudden downpour made everything run really high, and we must have missed Galena Gulch running high by less than an hour. More good luck!

Mike

mike...the local news had a video last night of big bug creek running like crazy..full of tree limbs and all sorts of debris ...a couple miners barely escaped the wall of water..but their pop up canopies didn't..they went down the creek

 

[gollum]

mike...the local news had a video last night of big bug creek running like crazy..full of tree limbs and all sorts of debris ...a couple miners barely escaped the wall of water..but their pop up canopies didn't..they went down the creek

We didn't hear about any campers, but Pat at A&B Prospecting told us somebody's truck got washed away.

We missed the rain that caused it by literally 30 to 45 minutes. Galena Gulch and the Big Rebel are just uphill from Humboldt, and not far from Mayer. You can actually stand next to the Mining Museum in Humboldt, and look straight at the Big Rebel. Easier seen that gotten to though. HAHAHA

Mike

 

[azdave35]

We didn't hear about any campers, but Pat at A&B Prospecting told us somebody's truck got washed away.

We missed the rain that caused it by literally 30 to 45 minutes. Galena Gulch and the Big Rebel are just uphill from Humboldt, and not far from Mayer. You can actually stand next to the Mining Museum in Humboldt, and look straight at the Big Rebel. Easier seen that gotten to though. HAHAHA

Mike

 

[davin]

thanks mike , sounds like you guys got really lucky.
take care

 

[Ryano]

That's a big hole. Typically, how many men would work a mine like the Rebel ? Looks like a lot of work without earth moving machinery.

FYI - The first two pics you posted came through with "invalid attachment" errors.

 

[gollum]

Okay, lets see if this gets better:

#1



#2



.....and some more:







Didn't have a lot of time to look for specimens (tire issue), so will try and rappel into the pit next next time. Depends on if we hear rattles coming from inside. John says rattlers always fall into it, so we'll see.





Dave,

That "camper" in the video is a scumbag. He is a prospector here that has to live in the washes, because nobody will let him stay on their property. From my understanding, he is a alky and a thief. I don't know the guy personally, but when I showed the video around, several people from a local prospecting club knew him.

Mike

 

[azdave35]

Okay, lets see if this gets better:

#1

View attachment 1480090

#2

View attachment 1480091

.....and some more:

View attachment 1480093

View attachment 1480094

View attachment 1480097

Didn't have a lot of time to look for specimens (tire issue), so will try and rappel into the pit next next time. Depends on if we hear rattles coming from inside. John says rattlers always fall into it, so we'll see.

View attachment 1480098

View attachment 1480099

Dave,

That "camper" in the video is a scumbag. He is a prospector here that has to live in the washes, because nobody will let him stay on their property. From my understanding, he is a alky and a thief. I don't know the guy personally, but when I showed the video around, several people from a local prospecting club knew him.

Mike

looks like karma caught up with him....lol

 

[gollum]

looks like karma caught up with him....lol

From what I understand, his entire life is Karma catching up with him. HAHAHA

Mike

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Hello Mike: I apologies for bursting you bubble but you have the right name for the Big Rebel but the WRONG MINING DISTRICT. Many mines had the same name, but only one such mine name per district, however while in the early days there was some give and take to the rule. The rule was pretty much followed to avoid claim jumping and violence. Thus the one district might have the Big Rebel 1, the Big Rebel 2 and the Big Rebel 3 and so forth. Bottom line, the mine you went it not the Big Rebel that Waltz had. Sorry, Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[cactusjumper]

Hello Mike: I apologies for bursting you bubble but you have the right name for the Big Rebel but the WRONG MINING DISTRICT. Many mines had the same name, but only one such mine name per district, however while in the early days there was some give and take to the rule. The rule was pretty much followed to avoid claim jumping and violence. Thus the one district might have the Big Rebel 1, the Big Rebel 2 and the Big Rebel 3 and so forth. Bottom line, the mine you went it not the Big Rebel that Waltz had. Sorry, Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Hi Greg,

Since Mike found the wrong mine, why don't you provide us with some specific details on Waltz's Big Rebel. Pictures

Take care,

Joe

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Joe: All you need to do is research the records. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe: All you need to do is research the records. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Thanks Greg,

I appreciate your help. Once I have done that, I will be happy to post the information here for everyone.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Thanks Greg,

I appreciate your help. Once I have done that, I will be happy to post the information here for everyone.

Good luck,

Joe

cactusjumper,

The Big Rebel mine of Jacob Waltz the Dutchman is located in the Walnut Grove Mining District which is west of the Hassayampa River about where Kirkland and Peeples Valley is located. Waltz's mine is about 5 miles slightly northeast of Peeples Valley. It is a long ride back to that mine through many gates. The Big Rebel is private property and there is no trespassing. The old community of Wagoner is the closest civilivation to the Waltz Big Rebel.

gollum was at a mine in the Big Bug Mining District near Mayer-Humbolt. If you drew a straight line between the Waltz Big Rebel and the Humbolt mine it would be about 9 miles in a northeast direction.

Big Rebel Mine: Walnut Grove Mining District Yavapai County Arizona Territory. Recorder’s Book B-1 page 45 at Prescott recorded as staked on September 14, 1864 and then Recorded as a claim on January 8, 1865. Jacob Waltz and partners on the Big Rebel claim are Joseph Smith and Peter Backens.

 

[cactusjumper]

cactusjumper,

The Big Rebel mine of Jacob Waltz the Dutchman is located in the Walnut Grove Mining District which is west of the Hassayampa River about where Kirkland and Peeples Valley is located. Waltz's mine is about 5 miles slightly northeast of Peeples Valley. It is a long ride back to that mine through many gates. The Big Rebel is private property and there is no trespassing. The old community of Wagoner is the closest civilivation to the Waltz Big Rebel.

gollum was at a mine in the Big Bug Mining District near Mayer-Humbolt. If you drew a straight line between the Waltz Big Rebel and the Humbolt mine it would be about 9 miles in a northeast direction.

Big Rebel Mine: Walnut Grove Mining District Yavapai County Arizona Territory. Recorder’s Book B-1 page 45 at Prescott recorded as staked on September 14, 1864 and then Recorded as a claim on January 8, 1865. Jacob Waltz and partners on the Big Rebel claim are Joseph Smith and Peter Backens.

Matthew,

Thank you. I found it yesterday and wrote down the coordinates. It was not difficult information to find on the Internet. When I get home I will post the coordinates.

You have always been overly generous with most of your hard won research, and I have tried my best to follow that good habit. I believe you were the one who sent me Crazy Jake's manuscript and I have paid forward that kindness to others......like you, free of charge.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Big Rebel Mine: Lat. N 34.3064 Lon. W 112.4942 El. 1314 M

As I have always said, I will share any information I have with anyone who asks.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[gollum]

I have to admit that I was shocked there were two mines in the same range (within five miles of each other) with the same name. I didn't get the Lat/Lon of the mine when we went. I saw the coords Joe posted previously, and thought it was the same mine. When I look at the road we took, it ended at our Big Rebel. When I compare it to the "other" Big Rebel, it is five miles away. How unoriginal those old timers were! HAHAHA

Yesterday, I had asked Pat at A&B Prospecting in Prescott Valley about it, he said there was another Big Rebel near Wilhoit. I figured that must have been the one Greg was talking about. Both are on private land, and both run cattle. Well, guess this calls for another adventure! Seems the current owner of Waltz's Big Rebel has all the gates locked up, but we know a guy who knows a guy. HAHAHA

 

[Matthew Roberts]

What happened to gollum is not uncommon and everyone should take close note of what Greg Davis wrote in his post about Mining Claims having the same name, but located in different Mining Districts.

Years back a person contacted me all excited and asked me to go in with him on buying Jacob Waltz's General Grant Mining Claim.

He proceeded to tell me about the 20.65 acre unpatented claim and wanted me to go out and look at the property with him.

I was interested until I actually saw and read the description of the claim and quickly realized it was not Jacob Waltz's claim. The claim was however named the General Grant.

I had a hard time convincing my friend and I even went with him to meet the owner and look over the claim. The owner insisted the claim was indeed Jacob Waltz's General Grant.

The mine was a nice looking property with a quartz vein running the surface for 200 feet or better and a 60 foot shaft going down on that vein.

But the mine was located in the Aguila Mining District of Maricopa County about 30 miles west of Wickenberg. The General Grant of Jacob Waltz was located in the Walnut Grove District of Yavapai County.

I never knew if the owner really believed his mine was Waltz's General Grant or if he was just using it as a selling point. I should mention the owner had bought the claim himself from a previous owner.

My friend and I declined the offer to buy although the mine did show some promise.

So if anyone offers up Waltz's General Grant Mine for sale and it's located out near Aguila, just know it's not the Dutchman's claim.

The Aguila mine was Arizona Mining Claim Number AMC436800.


Here is the description of all three of Jacob Waltz's real mining claims:

Gross Lode Pioneer Mining District. Recorded in the Journal of the Pioneer and Walker Mining Claims District page 263. Also in the Yavapai County Recorder’s office Prescott Arizona Territory on September 21, 1863. Waltz partners on the Gross Lode claim are, GR Black, Wm. Gross and GR Brooke.

Big Rebel Walnut Grove Mining District Yavapai County Arizona Territory. Recorder’s Book B-1 page 45 at Prescott recorded as staked on September 14, 1864 and then Recorded as a claim on January 8, 1865. Waltz’s partners on the claim are Joseph Smith and Peter Backens.

General Grant Yavapai County Book of Mines page 155-156 Prescott, Arizona Territory January 8, 1865. The claim was located and staked in the Walnut Grove Mining District on December 12, 1865 by Jacob Waltz. Waltz is the sole owner of the General Grant mining claim.

 

[cactusjumper]

What happened to gollum is not uncommon and everyone should take close note of what Greg Davis wrote in his post about Mining Claims having the same name, but located in different Mining Districts.

Years back a person contacted me all excited and asked me to go in with him on buying Jacob Waltz's General Grant Mining Claim.

He proceeded to tell me about the 20.65 acre unpatented claim and wanted me to go out and look at the property with him.

I was interested until I actually saw and read the description of the claim and quickly realized it was not Jacob Waltz's claim. The claim was however named the General Grant.

I had a hard time convincing my friend and I even went with him to meet the owner and look over the claim. The owner insisted the claim was indeed Jacob Waltz's General Grant.

The mine was a nice looking property with a quartz vein running the surface for 200 feet or better and a 60 foot shaft going down on that vein.

But the mine was located in the Aguila Mining District of Maricopa County about 30 miles west of Wickenberg. The General Grant of Jacob Waltz was located in the Walnut Grove District of Yavapai County.

I never knew if the owner really believed his mine was Waltz's General Grant or if he was just using it as a selling point. I should mention the owner had bought the claim himself from a previous owner.

My friend and I declined the offer to buy although the mine did show some promise.

So if anyone offers up Waltz's General Grant Mine for sale and it's located out near Aguila, just know it's not the Dutchman's claim.

The Aguila mine was Arizona Mining Claim Number AMC436800.


Here is the description of all three of Jacob Waltz's real mining claims:

Gross Lode Pioneer Mining District. Recorded in the Journal of the Pioneer and Walker Mining Claims District page 263. Also in the Yavapai County Recorder’s office Prescott Arizona Territory on September 21, 1863. Waltz partners on the Gross Lode claim are, GR Black, Wm. Gross and GR Brooke.

Big Rebel Walnut Grove Mining District Yavapai County Arizona Territory. Recorder’s Book B-1 page 45 at Prescott recorded as staked on September 14, 1864 and then Recorded as a claim on January 8, 1865. Waltz’s partners on the claim are Joseph Smith and Peter Backens.

General Grant Yavapai County Book of Mines page 155-156 Prescott, Arizona Territory January 8, 1865. The claim was located and staked in the Walnut Grove Mining District on December 12, 1865 by Jacob Waltz. Waltz is the sole owner of the General Grant mining claim.

Matthew,

Your description of the Big Rebel, pretty much, agrees with what Robert Blair writes on page 52 in "Tails of the Superstitions" . I have always considered his research to be some of the best available on the subject of the LDM.

Nice post.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Matthew Roberts]

cactusjumper,

I'm fairly certain Robert Blair was aware all three of Jacob Waltz mining claims were in Yavapai County. Blair got a bunch of things wrong in his book but also did some great detective work on the Valencia - Valenciana Peralta claims in Black Canyon near today's Bumble Bee, Arizona.

The interesting thing about Jacob Waltz's Big Rebel and General Grant claims is they are both in the Walnut Grove Mining District of Yavapai County and both claims were filed at Prescott on the same day, January 8, 1865.

There are always two dates to a mining claim, the date the deposit was located, and the date it was finally filed at the Courthouse.

Waltz must have discovered the General Grant claim at or about the same time he discovered the Big Rebel claim.

We know he located the Big Rebel on September 14, 1864 so between the 14th of September 1864 and January 8, 1865 he discovered the General Grant.

I am not sure how far the distance between the Big Rebel and General Grant was but I'll wager it's not far. Maybe Greg Davis knows the answer to that question.


Big Rebel Walnut Grove Mining District Yavapai County Arizona Territory. Recorder’s Book B-1 page 45 at Prescott recorded as staked on September 14, 1864 and then Recorded as a claim on January 8, 1865. Waltz’s partners on the claim are Joseph Smith and Peter Backens.

General Grant Yavapai County Book of Mines page 155-156 Prescott, Arizona Territory January 8, 1865. The claim was located and staked in the Walnut Grove Mining District on December 12, 1864 by Jacob Waltz. Waltz is the sole owner of the General Grant mining claim.