The Biggest Excal Secret EVER!

[bigscoop]

Something to test for yourself and to think about.
https://youtu.be/tkYvCHUik-s

 

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[ChampFerguson/TN]

So its an electrical or electrical potential problem (vs a physical one)? If that's the case, then the detector body needs to be shielded. If physical, it needs to be isolated from even minor vibrations. Either way, that's an argument for tolerating some falsing.

How does having the coil connected affect this falsing? Is there a different response? (I cant test/compare the effect as my coil isn't detachable)

 

[bigscoop]

Same effect on the hardwired setups. It will be interesting to see who/how many experience the same issue and who/how many don't? What's different?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

So its an electrical or electrical potential problem (vs a physical one)? If that's the case, then the detector body needs to be shielded. If physical, it needs to be isolated from even minor vibrations. Either way, that's an argument for tolerating some falsing.

How does having the coil connected affect this falsing? Is there a different response? (I cant test/compare the effect as my coil isn't detachable)

Decals on Excal IIs are shielded, you can install a excal II decal to the excal 1000 detector and it will be shielded.

Don't use waist belts or chest harnesses, it causes shorts in the coil, head phones and power cable from the constant flexing of the cables, on a shaft there is very little flexing.

 

[bigscoop]

Take an Excal II, try the same test.

 

[dewcon4414]

BS..... his adjustment to the threshold isnt new. Thats why many of us adjust our threshold differently for disc or PP hunting. Yes.... thats also how we get a bit more depth i believe in PP. Let me ask TH..... why do some Xcal IIs have a third wire going to the board from the headphones and why did they add the additional shielding? I dont believe it was just because they used a 3 wire cable shortly. Joe couldnt really say, but i do know when i removed mine when adding a new set of his Skullies.... the threshold would RAISE briefly every time the volume knob went under water. It appears many blues react differently as well. Turn your blue just out of auto.... then switch to disc..... some run smoothly others react with a lot of chatter, which you expect. So ..... are they out of tune or is the Pot a mechanical click?

 

[dewcon4414]

I would have liked to heard what he got since he didnt have his headphones on. Is it possible his machine is out of tune picking up more EMI...... or his movement creates it..... or maybe the board isnt grounded properly (is that possible?).

Hey TH, is the Xcal analog and does Kelleyco TUNE them? Are they tuned with or without the coil on them?

 

[bigscoop]

First let me say that I didn't have my Excal turned on "in the video" because I have performed the test myself many times, that's why I didn't have the headphones on either. I didn't even have a battery in it for the video. The video was just a simulation of the actual test.

Now, for those of you who have tried the test for yourself, now do that same test again, only this time use a wet rag to wet the side of your housing before you rub your items against it. You should no longer get the interference.

 

[bigscoop]

So one day I'm out in the water, neck deep, hunting that deep fluffy summer sand and as expected I'm only finding those light targets. When the tide started coming back in I walked straight out of the water and I immediately started killing deep targets in the wet sand. So, I decided to return to the same section of beach the next day to hunt only the wet sand.......I didn't find anything that next day except the typical shallow targets. Why?

A few days later I experience the same thing on a different section of beach.

In another instance, there was a condo association that I could only hunt in the water due to all of the EMI near the condos, yet if I was in the water I didn't have the problem. Now I had always thought that this was simply because the water took me further away from the EMI surrounding those condos, yet what I learned from my two beach hunting experiences above I was able to hunt the wet sand near those condos without too many problems. Why? What changed? I was keeping my machine housing wet by draping a wet rag over it.

 

[bigscoop]

https://youtu.be/DnK0CCg7QHo

 

[cdv1]

Interesting discussion..... I plan on testing my 3 Excals (sword, blue and green) to see IF mine do the same although, in the house mine don't even react like working units...may have to go outside for a proper test.
Let me just add something that "may" be the culprit here.....Static Electricity. I did some work in the electronics field and did quite a bit of board repairs, not working on an antistatic pad that was grounded along with having your body attached to the grounded pad with a wrist strap"could" lead to high voltage, low amperage static charge that could ruin components in a circuit board.
Static was also a known culprit in indicator needles sticking and was normally found during calibration runs.... a quick spray of glass cleaner OR a wet cloth on the plastic face would allow the needle to then move properly....Control Room Operators regularly used glass cleaner and a rag to verify an errant reading prior to calling the Instrument group to make a circuit repair/calibration.
With the Excal, you are dealing with a plastic tube and you are walking both of which can generate a static charge....Personally, I'm bald so I don't create near as much static electricity as others with a full head of hair.....

but static with me is still a problem......those living up north in the dry winter air know quite a lot about static electricity.....down here in the humidity of Florida, I rarely run into static......EMI is a different story..

I was going to post the above prior to testing and now see Bigscoop came out with another video which seems to lead me to believe that it is the static charge we all have. Better shielding could solve this problem and I'd be willing to bet that IF you took a piece of felt and rubbed it across the tube it would get even worse!

Now my testing, no coins, no rings, just my fingers and tested all three with the coils attached. All three machines (Sword 10", Blue 10" and Green 15" NEL) exhibit the same results as Bigscoop stated although it seems slightly less obvious on the Green model. All three did it in PP or Disc but was less of a bother in PP. I'll continue to hunt with them as I have previously which is running as high as I can (each machine is different). Learn the machine, know a false from a target.....just don't rub that tube out of the water..... unless a Genie with a gold ring will come out.

Really is sounding like a static charge and the possible need for better shielding in the tube.

Cliff

 

[cdv1]

Oh, in addition, spraying water on the tube did stop the falsing . I wonder now if wiping the tube with an anti static dryer sheet will stop the problem......Bigscoop, I don't have any anti static dryer sheets....got one handy that you could try?

Cliff

 

[dewcon4414]

NOw theres a good explanation from Cliff. Thou it wouldnt explain my raise in threshold ...... since mine seems in reverse, raising briefly when water hit the volume knob. Cliff i talked to Joe and he said the Xcals do have an adjustment on the board to help calibrate them. But like you said.... mark and VERY VERY VERY slowly make adjustments. We know wireless headphones wont work in the water if the box is dunked..... same principle, it cuts off the signal. Ill try and keep my paws off the pod.... lol. But normally i have mine sprayed with FLUID FILM.... kind of like a light coat on a gun. Also..... depth can really change the farther out you go into the salt water. Current changes at the long shore drift do the same. CLIFF.... i think all your Xcals are broken.... ill take-um cheap so you can get that new coil lol.

Dew

 

[bigscoop]

Here's the bottom line in all of this...."Better stability allows for more sensitivity and depth." On my old blue, and most other Excals I have tried, the wet rag trick will also improve the stability in your threshold. I can't explain it, why this works, I only know that it made a noticeable difference in the performance of my machine and I certainly experienced more deeper recoveries over the wet sand.

As for "deep salt water hunting", even with a larger coil, the loss of sensitivity and depth, in my experience anyway, is largely a factor of currents and the stirring of the matrix. In other words, if the bottom is flat and still and there are little to no currents then there isn't much noticeable loss of depth and sensitivity as long as you exercise smooth and flat coil control. On those days when there is current/stirring of the matrix, and/or the bottom isn't flat, you are much better off dropping to the 8"-10" coil and running it as hot as you can.

 

[Mikeguard01]

You're inducing static electricity into the pod. Dry environments will allow static charges to be built up on plastics. Winter will be worse especially in a home with forced air heat. Damp rag prevents the friction so the static charge will not build up. Remember as a kid rubbing a balloon on your hair to make it would stick to a ceiling or shocking someone bu rubbing your shoes on the carpet. When the Excal is submerged it's grounded so no charge will build up.

 

[timmysys]

BS..... . Joe couldnt really say, but i do know when i removed mine when adding a new set of his Skullies...

Dewcon please write something this Skullie Headphones about..

 

[dewcon4414]

timmysys.......the Skullies are one of Joe (old beach nuts) phones that he has constantly improved on. if you do a search on u-tube he shows you how to build a pair. Now i think he calls them tubes.... because of the tube he uses to direct the sound. I modified mine a little different inside the muff, but those Pizzos are the real money maker for a good pair of phones. I wouldnt dive with mine but id call um water resistant. Not sure what else youd like to know.

 

[timmysys]

Thank you Dewcon! I found this video, very useful! I make my own headset. I did a Peltor mod for excal, this is the next step I thinking replace the DF headphoe. The stock DF headphones don't eliminate outer noise. Hard to hear the whisper signals.