The Coconut Fibers are the Key to this hunt

[Robot]

Eelgrass was an important part of these Tunnels, along with the Coconut Fiber




The Dutch used Eelgrass for their long dikes, eelgrass was often used, re-enforced when possible with sand and clay.

"In the early 16th century, the dikes were enforced with rows of poles. Double rows were placed along the seaside of the dike. Eelgrass or reeds were laid in between and then covered with stones. This created a steep wall on the seaward side, meant to break or hold back the waves. Breakwaters were also built perpendicular to the dike. However the great shipworm, imported from Asia around 1739, began its destructive work. Sleeping dikes were built landward of the dikes in order to prevent large disasters."

The Freemasons were aware of this usage and knew that timber could not be used within sea water to reinforce their tunnels due to the destruction of wood by the "Shipworm".

 

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[FinderKeeper]

Good info Robot, This shows something was built in Smith Cove, but what I see could be tunnels or a way to make rope. Is there any proof of the tunnels by radar or any pictures of them dug up. I hope they do find proof of the tunnels because that would help prove the Knight Templars were at Oak Island. No one else could do a job like this. We been trying to prove the Templars did build the castle in New Ross just 15 miles from Oak Island . If I see red die come out from Smith Cove then I am a believer , No die, then I am back to the rope story.

 

[FinderKeeper]

Hi Eldo, . If we see red dye come out of Smith Cove then the tunnels work but if we see red dye come out from other areas of the island then we have cracks in the bed rock. There is no way they built other tunnels to other parts of the island. So we will all know for sure when the next show airs.

Rope was made from Hemp, and Horse Hair for the best ropes......Coir is the least useful in making ropes.....

not that you couldn't braid it for ropes, but I am sure that there were better fibers around then to make rope from.......

The sponge hole filler idea I think is way off. They could just plug it all with clay and remove it all after the dig, working much better. The coconut fibers were placed in the area as a layer to remove the clay from. Placing the fibers on the bottom layers, the clay was added on the top to make the layer waterproof, and then to be used so the layer of clay could be easily removed from the area, leaving a small layer of fibers. The fibers were used to keep the bottom later of clay together and were made to be the base layer of the Drain plugs in South Cove and Smiths Cove.

If used to make ropes it would also reconfirm that the Templars were here making ships to sail to the many areas they were allied with. Their are numerous inlets cut in the surrounding islands, to appear like ship dry docks, or ports. This would coincide with the coconut fibers......

You wont find much of the drains left.....they dynamited the whole island around the pit to cut off the area to the tunnels.

 

[Eldo]

The pits were blown up....but its as if there are numerous pits......its all gone right around the dynamited areas for a reason....

Just look at the layout given from the Blueprint to the Island

View attachment 1089526

and the dynamited areas......circumventing both of the caved in areas, from the swamp through the hole in South Cove, along a side channel taking a Square Route to the Pit.....LOL..'Square Route' Again

View attachment 1089527

 

[Eldo]

I almost was thinking that the area resembled some sort of natural water desalination plant, for sailors/pirates along the route from Europe, exploring the new world........

It works that way perfectly, with the coconut fibers stuffed in drains filtering the salt water coming in from the shore, going into a collection pit, which could have been used to collect fresh water

It would make complete sense that someone wanted to cover up their tracks so they buried the pit.....leaving the Burton block pulley where they usually hoisted fresh water from the pit...the rest being the fairy tale


Beside myself questioning this theory very heavily.......

 

[Eldo]

Hi Eldo, If the tunnels were dynamited then they don't work, so how could the drill holes and pits dug fill up with salt water. If we see red dye come out of Smith Cove then they do work, but if we see red dye come out from other areas of the island then we have cracks in the bed rock. There is no way they built other tunnels to other parts of the island. So we will all know for sure when the next show airs.

You can't pour red dye into a lower area of elevation into the pit and expect it to be going uphill though, coming out of the pit through Smith's Cove.....

They are hoping to dye the pit to expose the other channel openings in South Cove or elsewhere........

Would be funny if next season they run a special says it is an opening to the Hollow Earth......the entrance the Giants used to get to Agarta...!

 

[lokiblossom]

I almost was thinking that the area resembled some sort of natural water desalination plant, for sailors/pirates along the route from Europe, exploring the new world........

It works that way perfectly, with the coconut fibers stuffed in drains filtering the salt water coming in from the shore, going into a collection pit, which could have been used to collect fresh water

It would make complete sense that someone wanted to cover up their tracks so they buried the pit.....leaving the Burton block pulley where they usually hoisted fresh water from the pit...the rest being the fairy tale


Beside myself questioning this theory very heavily.......

I would question it quite heavily myself. With freshwater readily available up and down the atlantic coasts I don't think obtaining it would have been much of a problem. Also, I doubt if plant fibre would constitute the semipermeable membrane required for the desalination process, which really wasn't practical until the 20th century anyway.
And of course they (Templars) did build the well at Charing Cross (New Ross).

 

[Robot]

Why hasn't "Coconut Fiber" been found in "Abundance" on any of the other "Islands"?



Is it not strange that only "Oak Island" has been reported to contain an abundance of coconut fiber?

No need to dig for water, as fresh water flows right to the shores of Mahone Bay, in front of Oak Island, from the Gold River.

 

[lokiblossom]

View attachment 1089685



No need to dig for water, as fresh water flows right to the shores of Mahone Bay, in front of Oak Island, from the Gold River.

That is one of the freshwater sources I was referring to, but a working settlement needs good potable water, hence the well at Charing Cross (new Ross), even though it is alongside the Gold River.

 

[Eldo]

If you are having multiple ships coming through the area.....Say with over a 1000 men, as the Templars are known to have......do you think they are going to just sail all of their ships all the way up the gold river??

NO..........Some of them go up the river, but on foot.........did they just sail upstream ALL THE WAY TO NEW ROSS?? Prolly not

If you are building a pit on an island, and setting up a base of reference for sailors in your group to locate, camp, and to collect supplies and repair ships, would you just drive your whole fleet around the bay to fill up your barrels whenever you felt like getting some water??

Ever thought of trying to sail upriver in a huge ship? Sailing, not cranking the throttle.....

Or how about how much time it takes to maneuver a ship and all those men to get to anchor point, set off in the rowboats, with no more that a few barrels each, and fill up>?

Wouldn't it make more sense that they had one Dock set up (like they found remnants of), and that they would just pull up, drop barrels, roll them right to the pulleys, and fill er up??

If you were a master builder's group, wouldn't you just set up your own rain collection and water desalination station........the first Stop and Go Kwicky Mart that the Templars had?? Or would you send ships around on numerous journeys to fill up water ALL THE TIME??

I would question it quite heavily myself. With freshwater readily available up and down the atlantic coasts I don't think obtaining it would have been much of a problem. Also, I doubt if plant fibre would constitute the semipermeable membrane required for the desalination process, which really wasn't practical until the 20th century anyway.
And of course they (Templars) did build the well at Charing Cross (New Ross).

That many Templars had to drink a ton of water.......and it wasnt coming from New Ross's well.....Sorry thats a little far to go for water

 

[FinderKeeper]

Ya good drinking water was easy to find in the Oak Island area. The swamp area was a pond of drinking water back then to. The water in the money pit and in the other holes are at sea level now so with high tide and low tide the dye should work. Then again if the water in any hole goes up and down it would be connected to the ocean and if the water stays still it could be connected to the swamp water. I still say if the dye comes out from any area but Smith Cove then we have cracks in the bedrock and no tunnels to Smith Cove. This will be one big question that we can put to a end , then help solve some other ones.
A new web site for the Castle in New Ross is in the works with a lot of new info from 54 years of work at the site.

 

[lokiblossom]

If you are having multiple ships coming through the area.....Say with over a 1000 men, as the Templars are known to have......do you think they are going to just sail all of their ships all the way up the gold river??

NO..........Some of them go up the river, but on foot.........did they just sail upstream ALL THE WAY TO NEW ROSS?? Prolly not

If you are building a pit on an island, and setting up a base of reference for sailors in your group to locate, camp, and to collect supplies and repair ships, would you just drive your whole fleet around the bay to fill up your barrels whenever you felt like getting some water??

Ever thought of trying to sail upriver in a huge ship? Sailing, not cranking the throttle.....

Or how about how much time it takes to maneuver a ship and all those men to get to anchor point, set off in the rowboats, with no more that a few barrels each, and fill up>?

Wouldn't it make more sense that they had one Dock set up (like they found remnants of), and that they would just pull up, drop barrels, roll them right to the pulleys, and fill er up??

If you were a master builder's group, wouldn't you just set up your own rain collection and water desalination station........the first Stop and Go Kwicky Mart that the Templars had?? Or would you send ships around on numerous journeys to fill up water ALL THE TIME??



That many Templars had to drink a ton of water.......and it wasnt coming from New Ross's well.....Sorry thats a little far to go for water

First I don't think you understand the workings of a reverse osmosis desalination process, as I mentioned it only became practical in the 20th century. And second, I was talking about a working settlement needing potable water. Did you miss the part I mentioned about freshwater being available up and down the atlantic coast, which would of course include the mouth of the Gold River as Robot said. BTW, there is an ancient well at New Ross.
Or perhaps I misunderstand your own theory, do you believe that Oak Island was itself a settlement?

 

[Eldo]

First I don't think you understand the workings of a reverse osmosis desalination process, as I mentioned it only became practical in the 20th century

When did I ever say Reverse Osmosis?? LOL

I actually have one in my condo.

If you are building something that large and complex as the pit and the tunnels to the bays, you are going to have to camp there, am I wrong?

dont you think that you would naturally have a few men needing supplies like fresh water, we all agree on this

But would you rather go to a well at your camp that had filtered water,

Or pack up your barrels and go for a multi day journey to a fresh water source? VIA SHIP?

Which would you rather do? And being about motivating factors and time factors involved, would you risk being out in the wild risking Native attack, being gone collecting water for that long?

NO you would collect it there on the Island.

@FindersKeepers......I know that a knighted man like yourself would surely drink from a well at New Ross, but you wouldn't make your employees drink from the swamp on Oak Island, would you??

 

[Eldo]

Perfect gravitation of water in from the coves into a five fingered funnel........why the five channels??

Packing up soil to make a permeation to create a brine pool, then filtering through more soil, for a permeation through that layer, then through the coconut fibers as the last filter.....

Cotton will act in this same manner to absorb solid particulates.....and other elements, like salt will adhere to these dessicated coconut fibers to act as the final filtering layer, giving you natures finest water filter of the times.....

Why would you need to line these tunnels with stone? Because of the amount of water you were running through it all the time, as it would erode if water was moving through the tunnels and they were simply made of dirt, so they lined these tunnels with stone, and packed the entrances with three distinct layers of soils and fibers, to do the work naturally and through gravity flowing into the pit.

If the channels dug were made for a trap, they could have just dug channels for them and capped them with a single set of stones, they didn't need to line the whole four sides of the area with stone and clay, to make it a water tight tube, and then flood it all with the Money Pit filled as a cap.....

also ......THERE IS NO WAY YOU ARE GOING TO USE COCONUT FIBERS TO ACT AS A BLOCKADE FOR WATER............

they dumped it there to use as a filter for the brine pools from the swamp channels, and the Smiths Cove Coffer Dam pool, leading into the shafts........it all fits for a logical use for the area, and makes a perfect trap for the Treasure Hunter as well....

LOL

This was the base of operations for the majority of the men, and the repair and restocking point for them in their journeys back and forth to Europe.....

that is now fact, and people should realize now that the fibers were not able to stop the flow and were used for another purpose.....

Stop harassing Odin... Lokiblossom........

 

[lokiblossom]

When did I ever say Reverse Osmosis?? LOL


Or pack up your barrels and go for a multi day journey to a fresh water source? VIA SHIP?

Umm, what type of desalination process are you describing then?
The mouth of the Gold River is about two miles from the northern end of Oak Island and there are numerous small inland lakes just on shore. What kind of craft would take multi days to make these trips?
I just don't see the possibility of a desalination process on the Island. Perhaps a deep well to freshwater, but not an open pit well as that would certainly flood with seawater wouldn't it?... Loki

 

[Eldo]

Umm, what type of desalination process are you describing then?

Why don't you read what I wrote then....?

I fully described the entire process from creating a 1) brine pool with the Coffer Dam in Smith's Cove, partially desalinating it, and then using the five channels with two layers over each, to induce the permeation through a gravity feed through a final filtration through 2) soil and then 3) fibrous layers of coconut coir.....to produce fresh water in the pit.....

And what kind of craft you say?? These ships take up to an hour to get ready, make 5 knots in these bays max, and are very hard to navigate in shallow waters like rivers,

Not to mention you cannot just pull a ship that big into any place, you have to have a mooring point.......NOWHERE OTHER THAN ON OAK ISLAND DO WE SEE THIS MOORING DOCK........you cannot supply that many men with water unless you had a well.......

18 ships of men.......you can either dig the well there........ or waste your time in a constant runaround the bay gathering water and other supplies. Once the water runs out thats it......

The Templars were known to have 4 main ships, and a few smaller ships, that were used to trade around the coast of France, primarily in the Wine trade. This is the only documented evidence that was from the last times they were seen, except the fact that another document showed that the Templars left with 18 ships, carrying the trove of great wealth they were given from the Spanish rulers of the times, to keep it from being taken by the French and Papal decrees that called for the confiscation of their wealth.

When the French arrested them, tortured and tried them, the Kingdoms of Germany, and Spain refused to uphold the Papal decree and immediately declared them innocent. They could have left for either of these two countries, or to Scotland as rumored, and being the closest, it is obvious to me they did not go to Scotland, but to Spain, to avoid the wrath of the church, being so well known in Scotland.

This was an International arrest warrant, issued by the Kingdoms of France and Italy, so they ran as far as they could.

Now we can figure that this was their best escape plan, but we can also assume they were not able to make the great transatlantic journey as their Spanish and French allies could....they were sailing smaller ships that were only meant for the Continental Shelf, and the Mediterranean, so they had to acquire ships somewhere.....

Ships with a big red cross on them....that Kingdom was Spain......

And those ships were even bigger than the Knights Templar Ships.....these Galleons were almost twice the size of the smaller trade ships, and were not that easy to get moving, so it clearly would have been much easier to just dig your own well and not have to send one vessel to troll around ALL THE TIME.

They were not trying to be seen sailing their flagships around looking for water, amd were clearly hiding at the dock from the open view around the bay.......

 

[NostraDanis]

First, a "thank you" to everyone for a very interesting and provocative discussion.

I'd like to contribute a few thoughts and questions that are mostly drawn from ideas and theories already offered in these pages.
Everyone seems to agree that the fibers were the bubble-wrap of the day, and that is a defensible explanation of how so much of it ended up on O.I. (but not other local beaches). Exactly how much was used/needed and how much remains are debatable, but the premise is pretty sound in the context of treasure hunting. So, one of the questions becomes, as has been identified here before, why would the coconut fiber remain on the island? If the valued commodity that it protected were to be moved again, one would assume the fiber would be used again to protect it again, and would likewise be gone. Did the "treasure" remain in the area?

There seem to be two general schools of thought:
1) the fiber was used as a filter. Exactly how and what it was filtering seems an open question to me. However, if those box drains could be validated, it would certainly make this seem likely. For me, however, it seems like finding the drains should be well within reach with modern technology, etc. Yet, I'm not aware of any such validation.
2) the fiber had more of a commercial use; ie, rope. I have read here that the process for making the fiber into rope involves a period of time soaking in water (within the coffer dam possibly) before it can be used. I kind of like this theory for a couple of reasons - first we know that our intrepid travelers would have been remarkably resourceful, and this seems a very clever use for left-over packing material. But, more intriguing to me is the realization that there are many theories that have the area being somewhat of a nexus for long-range commerce. The river to New Ross is the "Gold" River! Norse writings tell of huge gold deposits. Oak Island itself is supposed to be riddled with old mines - it's reasonable to assume the nearby mainland is too. By many accounts, there was a lot of industry and trade in the area. Would not a source of rope be very useful?

If trade was occurring at the Charring Cross, it seems reasonable to me that rope would be an excellent commodity to possess.

Interestingly, to me anyway, is that both of these theories require that whoever brought the coconut fiber to O. I. had no intention of needing the fiber again for a later trip. They instead made use of the fiber in the best, most resourceful way they could. It seems to me that they had no intention of reloading their cargo. So, whoever brought the coconut fiber knew that they would never set sail with that cargo again.
What does that mean? I have no idea.

One additional thought: thank you very much FinderKeeper for putting in the time to revive the Joan Hope website. At the very, very least, she was an intriguing individual who seems to have left behind a unique body of work, and a world of unanswered questions. Hopefully, the website will be a conduit for more people to become aware of her work. I can't wait to see it up and running.

 

[lokiblossom]

Why don't you read what I wrote then....?

I fully described the entire process from creating a 1) brine pool with the Coffer Dam in Smith's Cove, partially desalinating it, and then using the five channels with two layers over each, to induce the permeation through a gravity feed through a final filtration through 2) soil and then 3) fibrous layers of coconut coir.....to produce fresh water in the pit.....

And what kind of craft you say?? These ships take up to an hour to get ready, make 5 knots in these bays max, and are very hard to navigate in shallow waters like rivers,

Not to mention you cannot just pull a ship that big into any place, you have to have a mooring point.......NOWHERE OTHER THAN ON OAK ISLAND DO WE SEE THIS MOORING DOCK........you cannot supply that many men with water unless you had a well.......

18 ships of men.......you can either dig the well there........ or waste your time in a constant runaround the bay gathering water and other supplies. Once the water runs out thats it......

The Templars were known to have 4 main ships, and a few smaller ships, that were used to trade around the coast of France, primarily in the Wine trade. This is the only documented evidence that was from the last times they were seen, except the fact that another document showed that the Templars left with 18 ships, carrying the trove of great wealth they were given from the Spanish rulers of the times, to keep it from being taken by the French and Papal decrees that called for the confiscation of their wealth.

When the French arrested them, tortured and tried them, the Kingdoms of Germany, and Spain refused to uphold the Papal decree and immediately declared them innocent. They could have left for either of these two countries, or to Scotland as rumored, and being the closest, it is obvious to me they did not go to Scotland, but to Spain, to avoid the wrath of the church, being so well known in Scotland.

This was an International arrest warrant, issued by the Kingdoms of France and Italy, so they ran as far as they could.

Now we can figure that this was their best escape plan, but we can also assume they were not able to make the great transatlantic journey as their Spanish and French allies could....they were sailing smaller ships that were only meant for the Continental Shelf, and the Mediterranean, so they had to aqcuire ships somewhere.....

Ships with a big red cross on them

Hmm, where do I begin?

1: I don't think your desalination plan would work.

2: 2 miles at 5 knots would not take very many days, at least using my math.

3: And why wouldn't they use smaller vessels for this type of work anyway. I'm sure I can paddle a small boat two miles in less then a few days.

4: You know how many men there were?

5: The 18 or so ships did leave La Rochelle, but they were not carrying spanish gold, the documented 160,000 florins of gold came from Cyprus earlier in 1307.

6: The arrest in France on the 13th of october of 1307, was a full month before the Pope (Clement V) ordered the arrest in the rest of Europe.

7: The Templars who came to Acadia did go to Scotland first and Scotland did not arrest any Templars. The only two Knights arrested in Scotland were arrested by English authorities that were in control of the area around Holyrood at the time and this was long after the happenings in France. It is also known that many Templars went to Portugal and were simply placed into a similar order.

8: Templar galleys of which most were Venetian were quite capable of following Viking routes to Acadia.

Thanks for the discussion...Loki

 

[uzzard]

Dennis King's article on the "Finger Drains"

Here is some darn good reading about the 5 finger trenches coming from Smith's Cove...........in this he says they used 2" of coconut fibers which is an acceptable amount to make the 3 1/2 ton of fibers thrown around often certainly feasible.

It does put the booby trap flood tunnels to bed though........which I don't think serious theories contained the flood tunnels anyhow.

What I really like is how this guy changed his theory and fully admits he was wrong after the Dunfield reports became available...........there are lots of people that need to alter their theories to fit the evidence rather then change the evidence to fit their theory.

 

[lokiblossom]

First, a "thank you" to everyone for a very interesting and provocative discussion.

I'd like to contribute a few thoughts and questions that are mostly drawn from ideas and theories already offered in these pages.
Everyone seems to agree that the fibers were the bubble-wrap of the day, and that is a defensible explanation of how so much of it ended up on O.I. (but not other local beaches). Exactly how much was used/needed and how much remains are debatable, but the premise is pretty sound in the context of treasure hunting. So, one of the questions becomes, as has been identified here before, why would the coconut fiber remain on the island? If the valued commodity that it protected were to be moved again, one would assume the fiber would be used again to protect it again, and would likewise be gone. Did the "treasure" remain in the area?

There seem to be two general schools of thought:
1) the fiber was used as a filter. Exactly how and what it was filtering seems an open question to me. However, if those box drains could be validated, it would certainly make this seem likely. For me, however, it seems like finding the drains should be well within reach with modern technology, etc. Yet, I'm not aware of any such validation.
2) the fiber had more of a commercial use; ie, rope. I have read here that the process for making the fiber into rope involves a period of time soaking in water (within the coffer dam possibly) before it can be used. I kind of like this theory for a couple of reasons - first we know that our intrepid travelers would have been remarkably resourceful, and this seems a very clever use for left-over packing material. But, more intriguing to me is the realization that there are many theories that have the area being somewhat of a nexus for long-range commerce. The river to New Ross is the "Gold" River! Norse writings tell of huge gold deposits. Oak Island itself is supposed to be riddled with old mines - it's reasonable to assume the nearby mainland is too. By many accounts, there was a lot of industry and trade in the area. Would not a source of rope be very useful?

If trade was occurring at the Charring Cross, it seems reasonable to me that rope would be an excellent commodity to possess.

Interestingly, to me anyway, is that both of these theories require that whoever brought the coconut fiber to O. I. had no intention of needing the fiber again for a later trip. They instead made use of the fiber in the best, most resourceful way they could. It seems to me that they had no intention of reloading their cargo. So, whoever brought the coconut fiber knew that they would never set sail with that cargo again.
What does that mean? I have no idea.

One additional thought: thank you very much FinderKeeper for putting in the time to revive the Joan Hope website. At the very, very least, she was an intriguing individual who seems to have left behind a unique body of work, and a world of unanswered questions. Hopefully, the website will be a conduit for more people to become aware of her work. I can't wait to see it up and running.

First, I don't like to argue against other theories, but the Templars did move their cargo in the mid 16th century as French Catholic fisherman began to show up off the shores of Oak Island. They moved whatever treasure they had left across the Islands divide to Annapolis Basin after taking apart the Fortress at Charing Cross. As I have mentioned I believe I have stood on this location and am willing to describe it as I did to "Nova Scotia Scotia Museums"...Loki