The Covid crisis can be overcome with the gold of the galleons

[Alexandre]

True. Look at all those coins from the Mercedes: they are now in possession of the Spanish Government.

A tangible asset (underwater cultural heritage) does not need to be sold. It is enough to possess it, that's why it is tangible. At the bottom of the sea it is not tangible.

 

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[Salvor6]

True. Look at all those coins from the Mercedes: they are now in possession of the Spanish Government.

Thanks to Odyssey. If it wasn't for them the coins would still be on the bottom of the sea.

 

[Alexandre]

Spain did not ask them to go there and bring them up.

Nor did Portugal, who has supervision of the wreck area.

Thanks to Odyssey. If it wasn't for them the coins would still be on the bottom of the sea.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Well, last time I counted I had searched for and found:

1) The 1782 HMS Pallas (Azores)

2) The 1878 Lidador (Azores)

3) The Angra B and D (both Spanish 16th century naos, Azores)

4) Angra C (Maybe Dutch hulk, mid 17th century, Azores)

5) The Nossa Senhora da Luz, 1615 Portuguese Eastindiaman, Azores

6) The Gomezianes, 1917, sunk by a German Uboat, Portugal mainland

7) The Portuguese Navy Roberto Ivens, sunk 1917 by a German Uboat, Portugal mainland

8) The Belinho wreck, an early 16th century Iberian ship, Portugal mainland

9) the Sao Francisco Xavier, Portuguese East Indiamen, sunk 1632, Portugal mainland

10) the Run'Her, a Confederate blockade runner, sunk 1864, Azores


I have also dove and worked in scores of Portuguese, American, Spanish and other nation's wrecks in Australia, Indonesia, Oman, Emirates, Mozambique, Cape Verde, Uruguay and Portugal. I have more than 3000 dives in archaeological context. I have picked gold and silver from the bottom of the seas, dismantled wrecks timber by timber and moved them out of harm's way, drawn stuff underwater till my fingers got numbed, raised anchors and iron cannons as well as bronze culverins from 135 feet deep, towed mags and sss from dawn to dusk, got half drown once.

I can also fluently read any archive document in French, Spanish, English and Portuguese.

But you are right - I am here to steal all your 1715 and 1733 shipwrecks, because these seem to be the only ones being discussed ad nauseam here..

What entity funded all these discoveries and dive vacations?

Why did you pick up gold and silver from the seas, raise anchors and iron cannons as well as bronze culverins?

Where are ALL these items now?

 

[Au_Dreamers]

I am against the selling of underwater cultural heritage.

So you're cool with finding it and keeping it?

 

[Salvor6]

So you're cool with finding it and keeping it?

Yet it costs millions, maybe tens of millions to properly excavate a historic shipwreck. Who pays for that?

 

[ROBOTCOP13]

I am against the selling of underwater cultural heritage.

I believe the Inca and Aztec were against the Europeans stealing their Sweat of the Sun and Tears of the Moon cultural heritage.

So what.

 

[Vox veritas]

Spain did not ask them to go there and bring them up.

Nor did Portugal, who has supervision of the wreck area.

Many strange things happened with the Mercedes. The first was that it was not where it is publicly stated. Portugal shut its mouth. I was the first to publicly search for it in 1982 with the proper authorizations from the Portuguese Navy (Capitania de Faro) and I investigated with Spanish and English nautical data. Second. Coins minted after 1804 appeared and are now in Spain. Third. In 10 days, not as many coins can be recovered at 1,100 meters depth, as stated. Fourth. When I presented my book "Galleon and sunken treasure" "at the Ateneo de Madrid in 2007, an attempt was made to boycott the event. As you know, one of the chapters in the book tells of the Mercedes. Fifth. Few people know that the Ministry of Culture of Spain denied in an official statement that Odyssey could have an authorization from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (of Spain), insofar as it was not competent. As I said, very strange things happened. Last of her was a strange character that triggered a criminal process in Spain I commissioned an investigation to a private detective and discovered that the subject had the fiscal address (payment of taxes) where Odyssey in Tampa, but all that does not imply that Spain now has tangible assets thanks to Odyssey.

 

[Alexandre]

You looked for it on the coast. This wrecks sits at more than one km below. Are you saying that the site Odyssey ransacked is not the Mercedes?

Many strange things happened with the Mercedes. The first was that it was not where it is publicly stated. Portugal shut its mouth. I was the first to publicly search for it in 1982 with the proper authorizations from the Portuguese Navy (Capitania de Faro) and I investigated with Spanish and English nautical data. .

 

[Alexandre]

Governments. They can opt to excavate a wreck instead of building 5 inches of highway.

Properly done, it can pay itself - see the Wasa, the Mary Rose, etc.

Yet it costs millions, maybe tens of millions to properly excavate a historic shipwreck. Who pays for that?

 

[Alexandre]

Some I paid on my on dime. Some were paid by people wanting to build bridges, piers and marinas on top of those wrecks. Some were paid by the Omani Sultan or one of the Emirs of UAE.

I picked the stuff, so they wouldn't be robbed, dredged or entombed in cement.

All items are now in museums or in archaeological deposits of said museums. See the said bronze culverin, on the permanent exhibition in the local museum.

What entity funded all these discoveries and dive vacations?

Why did you pick up gold and silver from the seas, raise anchors and iron cannons as well as bronze culverins?

Where are ALL these items now?

 

[Salvor6]

All items are now in museums or in archaeological deposits of said museums. See the said bronze culverin, on the permanent exhibition in the local museum.

How many items are in your personal museum?

 

[Alexandre]

None. I am not a collector, and I dislike artifacts.

If I could have one, I would have a bronze cannon, though.

How many items are in your personal museum?

 

[BillA]

None. I am not a collector, and I dislike artifacts.

If I could have one, I would have a bronze cannon, though.

well I like artifacts, but am not a collector
kind of agree, a swivel gun would be neat

 

[ARC]

Governments. They can opt to excavate a wreck instead of building 5 inches of highway.

Properly done, it can pay itself - see the Wasa, the Mary Rose, etc.

I presume you meant the "Vasa".

 

[ARC]

I don't know why "sides" must be taken when both sides goals can be jointly obtained.

The UK has adopted this mindset... VERY successfully... for BOTH sides.

The bigger picture has got to be clear at some point.

 

[BillA]

government funded looters feeding at the trough, each wants all they can get

 

[Vox veritas]

You looked for it on the coast. This wrecks sits at more than one km below. Are you saying that the site Odyssey ransacked is not the Mercedes?

The Mercedes was not found at a depth of 1,100 meters. Among the coins returned to Spain by Odyssey were later coins from 1804, the year this frigate sank. I have a copy of the "navigational diary" of the second naval squad leader, Diego Alvear, where he states verbatim that at the time of the combat "the entire coast of Cape Santa Maria was in sight." At 1,100 meters you are 30 miles from it and it is impossible to see the entire coast. There is also a drawing of the combat where you can actually see the mountains behind Cabo de Santa Maria.
In addition, I was already negotiating with Spain (the owner of the ship, as it was a war frigate) for a recovery project that was verbally accepted and I was preparing to go to see an admiral in Portugal, when, very opportunely, a legal process began and curiously (and coincidentally) Odyssey recovered the treasure (damn chance) from the Mercedes.
Of all the above I have abundant documentation that proves it.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Some I paid on my on dime. Some were paid by people wanting to build bridges, piers and marinas on top of those wrecks. Some were paid by the Omani Sultan or one of the Emirs of UAE.

I picked the stuff, so they wouldn't be robbed, dredged or entombed in cement.

All items are now in museums or in archaeological deposits of said museums. See the said bronze culverin, on the permanent exhibition in the local museum.

Some, some, some? What actual numbers?
So these people were forced to pay by legislation?

How much personal money have you actually spent on shipwreck artifact recovery operations?

I'm not talking about how much it cost you to hop a plane or drive an auto and rent or buy dive equipment to go look at something.

"Archaeological deposits"? So stored away where the people can't see them?

 

[Au_Dreamers]

I don't know why "sides" must be taken when both sides goals can be jointly obtained.

The UK has adopted this mindset... VERY successfully... for BOTH sides.

The bigger picture has got to be clear at some point.

I've always disagreed with this...

Because in the UK and many other places the "Crown" owns everything.

In the USA it all belongs to the citizens.