Janiece (Gossamer) said:
Hmmm... from my understanding it has long been thought that Waltz was guilty of at least one death, whether it was murder, only Waltz and his victim would know?
I have done a little research... and please all of you correct me if I'm wrong. I like the story of it, but I'm more interested in finding caves/caverns and history, If I stumble across gold, well... hot damn. I love the research, my docu. is on target (I hope)
Was the "Dutchman" really just an invention of the early Arizonians to spread interest and commerce to the Valley? If that is true, what a job they did.
Waltz was not 'Dutch" was he? I cannot believe that old guy didn't just share 'something' with anyone? I know about the woman that was with him when he died, and her subsequent unsucceseful explorations.
I still consider myself a newbie to the whole LDM legend/history, but I'll toss some of what I know out there in response to your comments/questions. There are others here who know the history better than I do and I hope they'll join in.
There is no absolute proof I'm aware of that Waltz killed anyone. There ARE however stories of him possibly killing his "partner" Jacob Weisner/Weiser/Wisner (etc... depending on the stories - and that is IF he ever truly did have a partner which historically I think has also never truly been proven). There's a story of him killing his nephew at one point when his nephew wanted to file a claim on the mine but Waltz didn't (once again, no historical verification that he had a nephew or that his nephew came over from Germany to help him and died) - I believe there is a story out there of a LDM hunter finding skeletal remains many years ago with a chain around it's neck in the same manner as the Waltz/nephew killing was told - but again, is it the chicken before the egg or vice versa? There are stories surrounding the finding of the mine (or the "coming back to the mine" - again depending on the storyteller) and he and his partner killing what they thought were 2 indians working it who turned out to be Mexicans who had previously worked the mine for the Peralta family. There's also a story of him killing a prospector on the way back from the mine on one of his trips - apparently this is the one being referred to here. Not sure if there are more killing stories or not. The man has been described as being educated and polite to morose and a hermit to a gambler and drunk - sometimes all in the same breath
. There ARE historical facts out there to study and try to track down - I actually enjoy doing that myself when I can find the time. There are a surprisingly large number of trails to track down in reference to the LDM even out here in the NH/MA area!
Waltz was German, not Dutch. The "dutchman" reference (I personally believe) comes from Germany being known as Deutschland and German being Deutsch. My guess is that early on in history as Germans came over to the states, it was confusing for non-Germans and they just heard what they believed they heard and called them Dutch.
Again, what Waltz shared and who he shared it with is all a matter of who's stories you believe. The majority of the hints and clues that he supposedly shared firsthand come from the woman (Julia/Helena Thomas) and her adopted son (Rheiney Petrasch) who knew him while he lived in Phoenix and were arguably the closest thing he had to a family. He supposedly shared a number of clues and hints with them before he got sick and passed away, but (again my personal opinion) during most of that time they were under the impression that he was going to lead them personally to the site at some point within the coming year. I don't think they paid nearly as much attention to what he said as what they should have due to that - also keep in mind that neither of them knew the mountains AT ALL and likely couldn't find their way anyplace except where a car could get to. There's also the story that he passed on information to someone named Dick Holmes who happened to be present at Waltz's bedside when he died (Julia was on her way to the Dr. and I believe Rheiney may have been drunk). Holmes and his son spent MANY years searching the mountains with "secret" information that supposedly came directly from Waltz's mouth - problem is neither of them found anything either, and considering Waltz's illness and fever, it's hard to say whether anything Waltz said was true or just the babblings of a fevered old man about to die.
Was the LDM and Waltz just a story made up as a business venture to bring people and $ to the area? Personally I don't think so. There's enough historical evidence to pretty well believe that Waltz indeed had a rich source of gold - where it actually came from though is another matter. I WILL definitely say that the "legend" of Waltz and the LDM
IS DEFINITELY something that a businessperson looking out for the interests of the area (tourism, merchandise, etc...) would certainly want to NOT ever be found in this day and age though. In the end, I suspect one of three things will happen:
1) The source of Waltz's gold will never be discovered
2) The source of Waltz's gold will be found and removed secretly - nobody but the finders will ever know
3) The source of Waltz's gold will be found and will be too difficult to remove secretly and will remain where it is.
Either way, other than a few "insiders," I don't think the general public will EVER hear about it if it's found.
I know you're more interested in caves, caverns, skeletal remains, artifacts and history than you are the LDM legend, but if you're ever interested enough in the history of it, see if you can get your hands on a copy of Thomas Glover's book "The Golden Dream." From strictly a research/historical aspect, it's probably the best details you'll ever find about the legend.
Incidently, in October there will be a 2-3 day "Rendevouz" near Apache Junction where a whole "mess" of LDM hunters and historians get together to shoot the crap, argue, discuss, share ideas, eat food, look at photos, etc... since you live in the area, I think it's something you should really look at coming out for at least a short visit just to meet some of "us." I know at least a few folks who post here will attend and I can GUARANTEE that you'll meet at least a couple local "old timers" who will have a buttload of history to share with you on the area if you get them talking (doesn't even have to be related to the LDM). Thomas Glover was there last year as well as a couple other authors, but I'll let those who post here who will be there as well answer for themselves - I don't want to speak for anyone else
There - how's that for a sales pitch?
In other words: 
