THE FIND OF THE YEAR!! (for me anyway)

[larson1951]

found this walking this morning
one of the coolest things I have ever found
what is it? please give me any info if possible
ceremonial?
or what?

also a photo of the other large pieces I have found in the last year

 

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[SoIll]

I think it's an arrowhead effigy. And authentic!

 

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[larson1951]

thanks for the posts everyone
I was thinking it might be an effigy also

 

[silvercop]

 

[coteau]

I took the liberty to contact the state Archaeologist on this one. Made mention that the notches didn't seem worn. Here's what he had to say.

I have seen many rather thin fully grooved and 3/4 grooved but never one grooved as this is. I too am bothered by the apparent freshness of the notches. Let alone that they are in a most unusual configuration. I also notice that there is no bit at the working end, not even any apparent attempts. No grinding or pecking or anything. Without seeing the item or knowing more about it, I also doubt that the working end damage has anything do to with actual use.

Lastly what I find odd is the pattern in the rust-colored plow scar on the upper and right side. Notice how it is reduced to the very edge of the upper groove but not in it, and yet does seem to overlap the edge of the lower groove. Without being able to examine it in hand, I am unconvinced that this is a real plow scar.

I will certainly look through additional literature in case it is something odd that I have not ever seen before, and it is always a possibility. But if asked to risk the $32 in my pocket....I'd be turning that bet down.

Happy Weekend.

Mark

I want to know what "rust-colored plow scar" he's talking about, because I don't see one! All I see is rust-colored carbonate crust (caliche). Caliche forms on the downward facing side of buried objects.

If Larson wants a professional opinion, by a professional archaeologist, I'd recommend he contact the guy in the link below. I don't think there's anyone in the world more devoted to Plains Village archaeology than this guy.
http://rcp.missouri.edu/raywood/index.html

 

[larson1951]

I am going to post a few more images

probably one of each end

maybe a front and back side close up view of the notches

I hope it will add alittle more to help determine it's meaning

 

[allen]

just wanted to say that is an awesome find
and congrats on making the banner !!

 

[crow12c]

by what I see in the pics, and my 40+ years of huntin, Id say you found what is called a joker! planted either for you, or by you..... A grinder leaves marks very simular to what I think Im seein and the groove is too sharp and grinderlike, and the blade, well thats what happens when puttin stone on a grinder. it just chips away insted of smoothin. they could of fixed it with sandpaper, but they already found out how timely that was tryin to get the marks off the rest a the stone. as for being a spear?? never... perhaps my brother there is someone laughin at you.. mabey you?
sorry bro I call it as I see it. and by what I can see from the staged lookin "where I found it" pic. to the grinder marks. I say "fake".it wouldnt be the first time someone planted crap in a good huntin spot just for giggles!!

 

[Th3rty7]

I wanted to wait awhile before I gave my opinion on the piece. At first I thought, too good to be true, but from seeing plenty of other finds from your field that did look authentic I decided not to rain on your parade. To be honest the notches look recently worked, the patina is inconsistent. Also I've never seen another piece quite like it, which doesn't prove anything I know. My uncle, a pretty well known archaeologist said the same, he also agreed that the notching is suspect and in his opinion suggested the piece has been modernly altered. Just my opinion Larson, hope I'm wrong.

 

[creek astronaut]

by what I see in the pics, and my 40+ years of huntin, Id say you found what is called a joker! planted either for you, or by you..... A grinder leaves marks very simular to what I think Im seein and the groove is too sharp and grinderlike, and the blade, well thats what happens when puttin stone on a grinder. it just chips away insted of smoothin. they could of fixed it with sandpaper, but they already found out how timely that was tryin to get the marks off the rest a the stone. as for being a spear?? never... perhaps my brother there is someone laughin at you.. mabey you?
sorry bro I call it as I see it. and by what I can see from the staged lookin "where I found it" pic. to the grinder marks. I say "fake".it wouldnt be the first time someone planted crap in a good huntin spot just for giggles!!

I like the opinions,thats why I like this site, BUT calling out someone as to salting his own fieldsare you for real bro??now why would ole larson plant a repro and take a insitu and then claim to have found an authentic artifact??to sell it??is that piece for sale larson??what so he could rise to fame here on tn and become a banner member.give me a break!!I dont know larson but from his previous post and comments i would take him as a good ole boy that likes huntn.not some joker.either way I am laughing now crow12c.

 

[crow12c]

hey man Im just callin what Im seein, I have never seen a true insitu that the dirt around the relic was as molested as bad as that one was. and I have made axes that would fool anything but carbon test, trust me my brother ive been grindin and peckin stone for many many years. I did it the old way, never using grinders, ect. I know when I see what I see, and by what I see, that stone is fake, I meant no harm or disorter. I am just real with it. its real or it aint. who found it aint gonna matter if its fake. its still fake.and round these parts where the blades are big and lotta axes are sun tannin, folks do salt good places just to try and get folks dicuraged enough to hunt elsewhere. yea I wasent aimin to slapp no one. I just gotta be true to the stone. Ill post one a my little blades I found out back in my creek. sorry if I got anybodys shorts tangled. probably not a good first post huh?

 

[SoIll]

no not a good first post. larson is already credible here.

 

[uniface]

OK.

Here we go.

There cannot be too many people here with good, experience-based opinions. I welcome every one of them that comes along and value them. Crow12c included.

So long as people express opinions about artifacts and not the people who post them, we're all better for it. Personalities may be appreciated, but are not the hinge this turns on. Or, shouldn't be.

I'm here to share information. Not for a soap opera.

 

[crow12c]

I never meant to discredit no man, after rereadin my post I can see where yall got that from, I am sorry if I came over like that. I meant only to judge what I could see in a pic. now,, holdin it in my hand could totally change my call on this stone. and Im sure he found it, Im just not so sure on its age. (no soaps for this farmboy) and I did not mean to come on as some know it all jerk. mabey our way a gettin our words in line round here are diffrent than yours.

 

[tchaire]

Crow12c---Welcome to the forum. As others have said, everyone's opinion is welcome and we all learn from that. I don't agree with you, but that's o.k. I don't like the way you came across, but it's tough to determine tone/attitude through the printed word, so that's o.k. Definitely post some of your finds. And I think we all would like to see more than just that little blade that you found in your creek, especially after 40 years of hunting. Show it all.

T.

By the way...Your comment about the insitu pic is unjustified. Larson clearly states in one of his posts that only a small portion of the rock was visible until he kicked it out of the ground.

 

[Mooch]

Since everyone else has comment on this piece I'll go ahead a throw in my 2-cents. Everyonce in a while you will run across a piece that is almost natural in form and has very little Indian work done to the piece. I've seen axes that are almost river pebbles with grooves and bits pecked on it. I almost wonder if this piece is a natural water worn flat rock with some work done to the other edges and the notches. I mean with out seeing the piece it is a total guess but seems feasible. This would explain the notches having a newer look then the rest of the piece, if the rest of the piece has been sculpted by mother nature over the last few thousand years. Anyway just my thought but the piece looks good to me, there are a lot of pieces out there that where made for reasons other then functionality so we never know what they are going to look like, Mooch

 

[coteau]

I never meant to discredit no man, after rereadin my post I can see where yall got that from, I am sorry if I came over like that. I meant only to judge what I could see in a pic. now,, holdin it in my hand could totally change my call on this stone. and Im sure he found it, Im just not so sure on its age. (no soaps for this farmboy) and I did not mean to come on as some know it all jerk. mabey our way a gettin our words in line round here are diffrent than yours.

Larson's find is authentic. You can clearly see (unless your eyes aren't very good or you have a bad computer monitor) that there's some brown crust/deposits in the notches, it takes years for those deposits to form. The majority of Larson's finds are about 500 years old.

 

[Neanderthal]

I'm a world class cynic, skeptic..whatever. And, I have no problem expressing my opinions on a regular basis, or crying foul when need be. Anyone who knows me very well will attest to this.

I also have had the privilege of studying many artifacts from all over. I think some of you could be judging his artifact on expertise in other regions. If you're accustomed only to seeing eastern hardstone items, the western (and other places) can really throw a wrench into your gears. I've examined a few pieces very similar to Larson's from his area, that also had refined / polished surfaces except for the hafting area, which were crudely pecked. I'm not telling you Larson's piece is authentic, I haven't examined it. However, I will tell you that they DO occur like that and it really doesn't ring any alarm bells for me. I'm pretty jealous of it personally.

 

[larson1951]

Thanks to all of you for your kind and informative posts, I really appreciate them and wish I would have known about this forum sooner.
A few days before I found this piece the weather forecast called for heavy rains which made me go and turn over some weedy areas
and do 2 things; get rid of weeds and also create some freshly turned ground into some good surface hunting, I turned an area about 5 acres
with the chisel plow and also ran the ridges parallel with the 10 degree slope of the field, I was praying for a good rain while I did this.
Before I started I removed a one half and a one quarter inch stroke control spacer from the hydraulic cylinder on the chisel plow which in turn gave me a depth of over 6 inches rather than the usual 4 inches. I knew by going a little deeper and running the ridges parallel with the slope it would really wash me some good surface hunting provided it rained hard and it did-4inches in one day, I had to wait 2 days just to be able to let it dry enough to walk. I have never heard of salting a field, that stuff doesn't happen on this private land & I don't think hardly anywhere in the sparcely populated Dakotas.
When I saw the small clean part of the piece(you can see this in the first picture) I pushed it with my foot to get a better look. I learned I can sometimes find a celt if I check every dark partially exposed rock like this. This is why I didn't get a true insitu. once again thanks to everyone, I will try to post close ups if anyone would like to see them. why should crow12 leave such words? It looks like he has many wonderful pieces?
MR crow12, In my opinion your remarks were a little hasty and unkind. I have never sold sold an artifact in my life and I am not trying to sell this one, but I have given many to my kids, grandkids and to my friends & their kids. I have never manufactured any either. You stated you and your brother have been "making and grinding artifacts for many many years." You also said you have been selling artifacts since you were young, just curious, did you sell anything you & your brother manufactured? I ask this because you said sandpaper should have been used to get rid of the grinder marks, why would you say this when this piece has not seen the light of day in 500 or 1000 or 2-3000 yrs? In your"Little Iowa blade" post you are holding a gorgeous blade, (I really like it and to me it is huge, I will probably never find one like that around here) you said you are a farmer, but your hands don't look like it, at least not to me, look at mine in my posts, just my 2 cents. I am sorry to sound bitter but I have never had anyone say what you said to me, why you were like this to me is something I can't figure out, it sounds like you have found an awful lot of stuff, your big blades are awsome and I want to believe that you would only post the ones that are real and not any home made ones

 

[Jazdo]

Larson not sure if you can view a post of mine from feb 20 2008 #338 post. To view pics of a item i found .
Not really like yours but a type no one I know of has seen.

I was told mine was a geofact. just formed by time,glacier rock whatever. Not sayin yours is but if you can
look at it go ahead.

Sorry i got some pics up now !

 

[Tnmountains]

Mr. Larson

I have enjoyed this post along with your others and have enjoyed seeing your finds in the field. I had thought a number of your finds were "Banner worthy". I was pleased when this now more than ever it seems rare tool raised its head from your field. We will never know if it was a ceremonial item or not but do not let anyone ever tell you there is no such things as ceremonial pieces. Ancient man took pride in his tools and art work.

Keep plowing
TnMountains