THE FIND OF THE YEAR!! (for me anyway)

[larson1951]

found this walking this morning
one of the coolest things I have ever found
what is it? please give me any info if possible
ceremonial?
or what?

also a photo of the other large pieces I have found in the last year

 

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[larson1951]

thanks much to you TnMoutains
I agree with your thoughts on this
also I agree with RGINN when he said the owner could have spent all that time making it
so he could impress others. especially the girls
with all the ornaments and jewelry etc I find it tells me that looking good must have been pretty important to the Mandans
I wonder how many members agree with this?

 

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[uniface]

Human vanity is illimitable

 

[crow12c]

Larson, as I have already stated. I meant no disrespect, and I was callin the reader my brother not talkin bout my brother. I never stated anything bout you sellin nothing. diffrent areas produce diffrent relics. I noticed no brought into the conversation that It could be a unfinished relic? this would be more likely? but I didnt mean to hurt your feelins. round here we are sharp and to the point. and thats how we like it. and I write like I talk, If we were eye to eye Im real sure we'd be alright bout it. now bout them hands.....?? not real clear with ya on that? these hands have been looked apon many times, but your the first to imply in a side ways way that they are sorta girlly lol! good huntin my brother. and if you ever get down this way I will take you out in the deep wood for a little fun in the creeks....... later man. crow

 

[Tnmountains]

thanks much to you TnMoutains
I agree with your thoughts on this
also I agree with RGINN when he said the owner could have spent all that time making it
so he could impress others. especially the girls
with all the ornaments and jewelry etc I find it tells me that looking good must have been pretty important to the Mandans
I wonder how many members agree with this?

You bet looking good was a sign of wealth. Towards the end of their ways of life they were in this area anyway more and more elaborate to the point of being similiar to the Aztecs in ceremonial goods and beleifs. They loved to wear beads. All the bone items you find are functional art work.
I agree with your thoughts on this.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

There is a post on the AACA board about this piece and they are questioning it's authenticity as well. I have tried my best to convince them other wise, but to no avail. Like I have told them, why would a man who has found tons of authentic artifacts of Bone, Shell, Flint, Stone, and Pottery all of a sudden decide to fake a piece just to show to people he has never met and probably never will. It just doesn't make sense. He's not showing it to us to try to sell it, so why would he fake a piece just to show to people.

I always thought that we were innocent until proven guilty, but unfortunately our society is too quick to jump to conclusions and cry foul anymore if something doesn't comform to the "norm".

Personally, I have no doubt in my mind that the piece larson found is a good artifact and I would be proud to have it my collection if I had found it.

 

[coteau]

Dorkfish,
I want to know why they are doubting its authenticity. Is it because the notches look fresher than the rest of the piece? It looks to me that the preform was smoothed using leather and sand, then the notches were added. The "patina" people are refering to could be polish from the final stage (wet sanding) of the manufacturing process. Polish can occur from usage too, but larsons appears to be from sanding. And as I stated earlier you can clearly see brown deposits in the notches.

The fresh look of the notches could also be because the notches are rougher and therefore have some white deposits stuck in the tiny holes. I have a grooved axe that looks like the groove is fresh, but it's actually because there are white deposits in the rough, unsmoothed, porous areas.

I can't believe this authenticity issue was even brought up, but I guess that's how people learn.....

I'm not a member of the AACA because I'm not a buyer or seller, so I don't go to their forum. There will always be people who claim to authenticity experts, I've seen it thousands of times on these discussion forums. All you can do is ignore them and hope they learn something....

 

[creek astronaut]

i am in the camp that it is authentic. i questioned the notches very early in this thread but in no way did i think it wasnt authentic,just not what we are accustomed to seeing.It is what it is and if people want to discredit his find that is their choice,maybe some are just jealous??used to hang out on the aaca forum a lot before i found this site and i have to say that on the most part I really liked the people there,but there were a few members there that i thought were toxic and to quick to critisize someone and I would bet I know who is bashn this find.there will always be skeptics and i guess we couldnt have the debates we so enjoy without having opposing point of views.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

runtee, yes they think it's fake because of the notches not having the same patina as the rest of the piece, but I don't agree. I think it's a good piece.

 

[Th3rty7]

Send it to an authenticator. Let an expert examine the piece, there's only so much you can tell from a photograph.

 

[GL]

I wouldn't send it to anyone and I darned sure wouldn't care what "the Internet" thought about it. I'm no expert but I have zero doubts as to Larsons integrity. Patina snobs can get bent as far as I'm concerned. He isn't selling it and he knows where it came from so there is no reason to spend money to have some guy somewhere stare at it through a loupe and pass judgment over it.

Larsons hands are awesome by the way. Very manly and rough like a mans hands should be. I have seen blood in a couple of them and that strikes me as a fella that works hard and is a no nonsense solid citizen. I highly doubt that with all the pictures of all the things he finds that he would take hours or days making something just to fake finding it to impress people he has never met. I know some do, but not Larson. Sounds like sour grapes to me. We have all seen photographs of his fields dirt and the bone and artifact saturation that it contains. There seems to be flakes and bone shards over every inch of it like maybe it was the center of a long standing Mandan village.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I completely agree GL and that's what I've been trying to get through to some of the guys on the AACA. Not everyone over there thinks that way and there are a few that agree with us and we are actually the majority.

 

[GL]

Look at the first two pictures. There are bone and chips all over the ground in both of them.

 

[larson1951]

What is the AACA?

 

[GL]

Authentic Artifacts Collectors Association

 

[yo6oej]

awesome...congratulations

 

[Neogeo]

http://www.theaaca.com/aaca/index.php?name=ForumsPro

 

[johnfile]

Just looking at this again....man, of all the people I know, you are the one who most deserves to find such a spectacular artifact....your kindness is truly boundless! Many more years of hunting and happiness, to you and your dear wife and family...thanks, again for your undeserved kindness!

 

[flintdigger]

That is a fantastic piece !!! Look's good to me.

 

[Get-the-point]

runtee, yes they think it's fake because of the notches not having the same patina as the rest of the piece, but I don't agree. I think it's a good piece.

That is because they obviously are clueless on how things patinate out west. I had 2 Anasazi Axes that looked like that once. The pecking in the grooves looked fresh. After reading Coteau's explanation, it truly makes sense.

Steve.....another beauty man!!! That axe is nice.......... keep those beauties coming......You have a winner of a field man!!!.....................GTP(Chris)

 

[Get-the-point]

Just looking at this again....man, of all the people I know, you are the one who most deserves to find such a spectacular artifact....your kindness is truly boundless! Many more years of hunting and happiness, to you and your dear wife and family...thanks, again for your undeserved kindness!

Nicely said John......................To all of you I wish you all the happiness in the world!!!!..................GTP(Chris)