The Hopefully OK Shark Pit Cookie Experiment

[ClonedSIM]

Hi all! Well, as you might have seen, I managed to pester Rob into letting me try my hand with cleaning a couple of the shark pit cookie coins. They arrived today and I just wanted to say thanks to Rob. Getting a new camera to use tomorrow, so all I have right now is a kinds cruddy before image. I received two coins, one I'm sure is a quarter and the other which is probably a penny, put possibly a heavily encrusted dime. I am planning a bath in the electrolysis tank for them, but am trying several pre-soaks before them ever see it. So far, I have not touched the quarter, saving it to see what works on the cent. The penny had been through several baths in a baking soda/isopropyl alcohol mix, and I did start to see some improvements almost immediately. The first bath through, nothing happened. After 30 minutes, I changed out the solution and cleaned all residue off the coin, then in it went for 30 more minutes. This time, however, I did see a slight yellowing of the solution and saw several grains of sand that bubbles up to the top. Keeping a close eye on the mixture and examining the coin each time I remove it, and it has started to take on a semi-smooth appearance, but appears to have the bulk of the crust still firmly in place. I'm going to sty this several more times before anything else, but only under supervision. When I'm not working with the coin it'll be soaking in an olive oil bath. FURTHER BULLETINS AS EVENTS WARRANT!!!

 

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[mattjd]

The corrosion has eaten away at the accually coin inside the encrustment. Even if you get the encrustment off the coins, you can not save the coins.

Matt

 

[ClonedSIM]

I think the point here is to try and identify the coins rather that preserve them. Did you have a look at Floater's posts? I'll consider myself lucky if I can get those types of results.

 

[mattjd]

Yes, I see what you mean. Although myself would rather have them in their original condition as which they were found.

Matt

 

[ClonedSIM]

I'm sure Rob has plenty of the original condition coins, but you just have to be curious about what's under that crust. I hope to take a tiny amount of the corrosion off at a time, hopefully to leave enough of the original surface of the coin to get a date and identity. Which reminds me, I have started to work the electrolysis on the small cookie, while the larger one is still soaking in olive oil. So far, the coin has a smooth surface, but no detail to speak of. I'm running each cycle at 15 minutes, at which point I replace the solution with a new batch. I'm trying a variety of different solutions; water with salt, water with baking soda, water with baking powder. Just trying to get a feel for which solution will work the best. Slowly but surely. I'll have a new pic up as soon as there is some discernible change in the surface. Happy Hunting!

 

[Floater]

Yes, I see what you mean. Although myself would rather have them in their original condition as which they were found.

Matt

Matt, The cookies as they are from the pit of are no value except to Rob who counts them among his finds. Unfortunately I am back in NY on a family emergency, but in my conclusion to the first experiment you should read the part about, what is the point at which we consider our attempts a success and at what point we stop restoration and go into conservation. Until the technology becomes available to turn corrosion back into its original state we are only going after an identification and as much of it per coin or cookie as we can. I cant speak for Rob but If I was the finder of all these cookies I would want to identify and conserve everyone I had.
If you have ever visited or looked into the Atocha finds you would see piles of silver Reales that have turned to Sulfide Clumps. They have stabilized these and displayed them since their is no way to further ther appearance or defintion by restoration.We are trying the same thing but at a different level. Also if you look at the majority of Silver Reales that have come out of the ocean they are not near a whole state or original at all. They have recovered a good amount in excellent condition but those are not the common finds. AF is attempting this and we should all encourage him in this effort.I for one am encouraged by the fact that his chemical composition approach seems to be having some effect so quickly. We will eventually find a way to treat these coins and preserve them but it is a long way away and will take a few trys at all levels. Lets keep this more in the positive and have fun with it. AF looking forward to more news and get some decent pics for us.

PS. I do have something cool to look at when I get back to Florida and will get back to my Post at that time and post the pics . Probably not untill Weds. Night. HH

 

[ClonedSIM]

Floater, I just want to say that I hope everything goes well with your family, and thanks for the support. It was your posts here that inspired me to even try something like this.? And I want to say that tonight I've had a BREAKTHROUGH!? After two more electrolysis sessions this evening, I was removing the smaller cookie to rinse it and change my solution and I noticed a small portion of the crust had begun to flake off.? Curious, I used a small pick to pull this section away and about a quarter of the crust on the back of the coin fell away, allowing me to see the word ONE and a branch of leaves!? ? Obviously excited, but trying to keep this in check, I kept up with this process by slowly allowing the crust to flake away and swabbing the coin with isopropyl alcohol.? After about an hour of tedious flaking and swabbing, I had uncovered the entire back of the coin, a Barber Dime!? I left my camera at work today, so I'll have pictures to post tomorrow morning.? Before moving on to the front, and just out of sheer curiosity, I carefully flaked away the crust above where the date should be, and I got it!? 1904!? Unfortunately, there was some delamination on the lower rim of the back, so I have no way of telling if the mintmark was an S or not, but progress is a beautiful thing!?? ? Check back for pics!

 

[mattjd]

Sounds great! Very curious as to what the coin looks like!

Keep us posted!

Matt

 

[ClonedSIM]

Oh, will do. Bit of a delay on the pics, my office buddy took the camera home with him last night to shoot some family pics and forgot to bring it back today, so I'll have them tomorrow. Also going to start with the larger cookie this evening, with the same process of soaks in the alcohol and baking soda before electrolysis. Hopefully I can get the same results as with the dime. Also going to be working on revealing more of the front of the dime this evening, see if I can get the same results as the back of the dime which, except for a little delamination around the edges, is clearly visible. Happy Hunting!

 

[Ilovetodig]

Great job AF. Be careful and I can't wait to see those pics.

 

[Vrent]

Sorry to hear about your family emergency Floater hopefully it will all come ok

perhaps Floater AF has hit upon part of what we talking about a point to stop electrolisis and start in with another procedure. I think that the electro all by it's self, while, removing the crud will eventually destroy the patient. I know we also were talking about at what point do you decide that the coin is conserved and stop. AF has a back, I think he will find any more electro and he will have dust. Perhaps a muric or flouric acid soluton painted on the front slowly will help to release the front side. Flouric acid may eat silver I am not sure, I know it will not eat gold. I would start with a 1 percent solution of muric, that would eat any calcium type materials and paint a coating on the front and let it sit for 15 minutes or so and see is it softens the surface. The cookies are like trying to get the fossil out of the rock matrix. What was there orginally has been replaced.

you did hit uon something to turn the "corrosion" back ito the orginal. hmmm let me think on that it may not be so far fetched

HH Vrent

 

[ClonedSIM]

The acid idea is actually a plausible one. I'm finding that the trick, at least on my end, is to try and get a portion of the encrustation to release before going in with the electrolysis, so the coin can be exposed to just a bit less time in the tank. I'll have pics of the Barber dime up shortly.

 

[cavtrooper]

I posted a link yesterday on Floater's site. It is http://nautarch.tamu.edu/class/anth605/file13.htm . I think anyone following the cookie coin experiment would enjoy reading it. It describes what happens with silver coins that have been in salt water containing nitrates. It also lists different methods for cleaning/conserving these coins.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Thanks Cav!

 

[Floater]

OK I'm back. AF your killin us man. I'm on the edge of my chair here waiting for these pics of yours. LOL

Thanks for the kind words Vrent and everyone. My stepfater passed on. We were expecting it, but none the less a little hard on everyone. Life is good though and we must all move on.

Cav that is a great site. Excellent work.

Come on AF we want Pics :P

Matt I didnt mean to single you out or say you werent having fun with this stuff. I know you are and I was just a little cranky when I posted. (its been a long couple of weeks.)
HH

 

[ClonedSIM]

Jeeze, Floater, I'm sorry to hear about your stepfather. No one blames you for getting cranky, man. Perfectly understandable.

Okay, well, I know there's been a delay with the pics, and I apologize to anyone who's been waiting. for some reason my office buddy decided not to come in today, so I stil have no camera. Did get hold of him this evening, though, and made him promise at the threat of gluing everything he uses to his desk that he'll bring it in tomorrow. The one thing I truly regret is not being able to photo the whole process like you did, Floater. I can tell you your post was a joy. I'll get some shots of my cleaning suppleis along with both of the cleaned coins tomorrow.

Both, you ask?!? Yes, I say! The large cookie is a 1900-O Barber Quarter! I discovered that just a few moments ago. I know, I should have waited for the camera, but my impatience got the best of me. Let me tell you, this quarter is as beautiful as you can expect something to be that's been coated in a thick layer of sand and silt for 100 years. You can clearly see the date, the mintmark is a bit tougher but is very much there. On top of this, the coin still has most of the hashmarks on the outside of the coin! I was amazed when those came out.

 

[mchamby]

Great work floater and AF it is amazing that you are identifing some of these coins as I have seen one and the coating on them is very thick and really makes you wonder what you have. I bet some people would pick them up out of the water and toss them thinking they are a rock or something. I love your scientific experiments and look forward to more and I thank Rob for giving you the coins for the experiment so we can all share in his discovery.
Mchamby

 

[ClonedSIM]

Anyone interested, please refer to The Hopefully OK Shark Pit Cookie Coin *PICTURES*.