The Square Round Table

[L.C. BAKER]

I have started this thread to aid in the discussion of any topic that concerns the K.G.C. and the O.A.K. that anyone wants to discuss for any reason. I would only ask that we all try and follow tnet rules and regulations and remain on a subject until we reach a conclusion or conclusions on that subject(s) of discussion. One step at a time in the right direction, no insults, no B.S.

Thanks for your time and participation in advance
L.C. Baker


I will start the discussion with this widely accepted fact:

The first confirmed bank robbery involving Jesse James occurred on December 7, 1869, at the Daviess County Savings Association in Gallatin Missouri.



and I would add these conclusions:

The first bank Jesse James robbed was a bank in his home state of Missouri

1) Jesse did not have any concerns about living in Missouri as a free man after Dec. 9th, 1869 because from that day forward he was considered an outlaw in his home state, and a fugitive from justice in all states.


Question: What or who do you think led Jesse James to Gallatin Mo. that day, a robbery or other motive (s)?

Another widely accepted fact: The Gallatin bank acted as a branch office for a larger bank in Chillicothe operated by another of Clingan’s brothers-in-law, Judge James F. McFerran. As most of the money transactions were made in Chillicothe, there was little cash on hand at the time of the robbery. Only a few dollars were involved in the crime that cost Sheets his life.

A questionable eyewitness account from an 89-year-old man who claimed to be a witness when he was 16.
Eye-Witness Account of 1869 Bank Robbery? Daviess County Historical Society

another account: Gallatin, Missouri Bank Robbery

another account: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_James

Do you believe that Jesse James really made a split second decision as the robbery was taking place, that the banker at Gallatin that day just happened to be Samual P. Cox the man that had supposedly killed Bloody Bill Anderson? Was it really just a case of poor planning and mistaken identity by the James boys or something entirely different taking place that day in 1869??

Look-Alikes?

 

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[Crosse De Sign]

I have started this thread to aid in the discussion of any topic that concerns the K.G.C. and the O.A.K. that anyone wants to discuss for any reason. I would only ask that we all try and follow tnet rules and regulations and remain on a subject until we reach a conclusion or conclusions on that subject(s) of discussion. One step at a time in the right direction, no insults, no B.S.

Thanks for your time and participation in advance
L.C. Baker


I will start the discussion with this widely accepted fact:

The first confirmed bank robbery involving Jesse James occurred on December 7, 1869, at the Daviess County Savings Association in Gallatin Missouri.



and I would add these conclusions:

The first bank Jesse James robbed was a bank in his home state of Missouri

1) Jesse did not have any concerns about living in Missouri as a free man after Dec. 9th, 1869 because from that day forward he was considered an outlaw in his home state, and a fugitive from justice in all states.


Question: What or who do you think led Jesse James to Gallatin Mo. that day, a robbery or other motive (s)?

Another widely accepted fact: The Gallatin bank acted as a branch office for a larger bank in Chillicothe operated by another of Clingan’s brothers-in-law, Judge James F. McFerran. As most of the money transactions were made in Chillicothe, there was little cash on hand at the time of the robbery. Only a few dollars were involved in the crime that cost Sheets his life.

A questionable eyewitness account from an 89-year-old man who claimed to be a witness when he was 16.
Eye-Witness Account of 1869 Bank Robbery? Daviess County Historical Society

another account: Gallatin, Missouri Bank Robbery

another account: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_James

Do you believe that Jesse James really made a split second decision as the robbery was taking place, that the banker at Gallatin that day just happened to be Samual P. Cox the man that had supposedly killed Bloody Bill Anderson? Was it really just a case of poor planning and mistaken identity by the James boys or something entirely different taking place that day in 1869??

Look-Alikes? View attachment 1552629

Very glad to see you doing this L.C., & looking forward to many good discussions.
Interesting info & questions to kick it off, Best Regards!
Thanks,

 

[Crosse De Sign]

The way you pose your questions, it sounds like the answers are possibly, that there was
some pre-planning, & potentially not just for the loot that was available on hand?

If not, then the research on the possible money there looks thin, and maybe it was instead some split second kind of recognition, or possibly masked decision to do a
follow up retaliation.

But L.C., I'm sure you must have some very interesting lights to shed on these questions...
Thanks, & please do continue...

 

[barnhse]

Okay, I have a question.

Are there any references when/if Jefferson Davis visited Texas after he was released from prison, prior to 1872?

 

[Albertaclipper]

Didn't the James Brothers deny committing that robbery, let alone the murder? The James bros claim that they were not in the area when this happened. ( I read this at home in my books, at work right now, I cannot validate my claim atm)

 

[franklin]

Didn't the James Brothers deny committing that robbery, let alone the murder? The James bros claim that they were not in the area when this happened. ( I read this at home in my books, at work right now, I cannot validate my claim atm)

They also refused credit for the Huntington, W.Va. robbery and several others. Anyone coming in to town shooting and robbing a bank everyone said it was Frank and Jesse James.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Home - Knights of the Golden Circle

Thoughts?

 

[franklin]

Home - Knights of the Golden Circle

Thoughts?

I have thought about it a lot and I love it.

 

[orangeman]

From what I’ve read and understand the James gang didn’t make dry runs. They accomplished what they where sent to do or what they intended

 

[Crosse De Sign]

From what I’ve read and understand the James gang didn’t make dry runs. They accomplished what they where sent to do or what they intended

That may be a perfect scenario, for 99%...
But, what about planning the Northfield?

 

[orangeman]

Thing is, did they do it.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Yeah, Cole never did say, but who was he & the rest,
whoever lived or died, well known to only ride with?

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Okay, I have a question.

Are there any references when/if Jefferson Davis visited Texas after he was released from prison, prior to 1872?

I have archived this question and it will be the next that we discuss to its end. Considering that Feb 15, 1869, Charges of Treason against Jefferson Davis were dropped, we are only talking about three years in question. Right now we are discussing the Gallatin Missouri bank robbery that took place Dec. 7th, 1869. ten months before Davis was freed.

Thanks for the question, L.C.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Didn't the James Brothers deny committing that robbery, let alone the murder? The James bros claim that they were not in the area when this happened. ( I read this at home in my books, at work right now, I cannot validate my claim atm)

Yes, they did deny it in a letter, but they have denied many things they did because they felt like the blame for them doing it was on their oppressors. In this case, I personally believe it was them in Gallatin that day but they were not there to rob the bank as much as they were there to get even and make a stand. I do not believe that mistaken identity is what killed the banker Sheets. He was double tapped, one between the eyes and one in the heart. There were other witnesses there that did not mention any accusations before the shots were fired. I think the "evidence" supporting that claim is very flimsy, to say the least. If you look at the days and months leading up to that day in Gallatin there was some very bad news in the papers which we know Jesse read. Nothing specific to discuss here, but this will give you and others the idea of what was happening in the period one year from the robbery taking place. When I say "get even" it was not for any of the following, it is just to establish what was going on in their heads before the robbery took place on Dec. 7th, 1869.

Sep 6 1st westbound train arrives in San Francisco

Jan 13 Colored National Labor Union, 1st Black labor convention meets in Washington, D.C.

Feb 27 John Menard is 1st African American to make a speech in the US Congress

Feb 23 Louisiana governor signs public accommodations law

Feb 20 Tennessee Governor W C Brownlow declares martial law in Ku Klux Klan crisis

Feb 15 Charges of Treason against Jefferson Davis are dropped

Mar 16 Hiram R. Revels makes 1st official speech by an African American in the Senate

Mar 13 Arkansas legislature passes anti-Ku Klux Klan law

Those are headlines of the year 1869 which were front page news of the day, not put together by me to be significant, but the actual events reported as they happened.

Is my first question concerning the Gallatin robbery is: was Jesse W. James affiliated with the KKK? I have never heard or read it discussed. The link between Albert Pike and the two societies of the K.G.C. and the K.K.K. has been the topic most, but Jesse is never mentioned in those discussions.

L.C. Thanks for your participation!

 

[L.C. BAKER]

From what I’ve read and understood the James gang didn’t make dry runs. They accomplished what they were sent to do or what they intended

I agree 100% Sir, they were well planned and had a lot of inside information to keep them on track.



Thanks for the input Sr! L.C.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

possibly, that there was some pre-planning, & potentially not just for the loot that was available on hand?

Yes, I believe that there was always preplanning involved in every robbery that Jesse did commit even in the ill-fated Minnesota failure. I don't believe the gang had the same motives or help planning on Sept. 6th, 1876 as they had on Dec. 7th, 1869 just four years after the War had been declared over but seemed to be still smoldering and smoking.

L.C.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

They also refused credit for the Huntington, W.Va. robbery and several others. Anyone coming into town shooting and robbing a bank everyone said it was Frank and Jesse James.

The evidence in the Gallatin case is flimsy when it comes to the reason why they shot Sheets and got little or no money. It becomes flimsier after this:
" Frank James was tried from August 20-September 6, 1883. Interest was so intense that the trial was moved to the Gallatin Opera House to accommodate the crowds. James was found not guilty of involvement in both crimes"

BUT, again it was long after the event took place at Gallatin. Has anyone got access to the minutes of that trial?

Thanks for your input Franklin! L.C.

 

[orangeman]

If the James brothers done it, sheets would’ve been the mission. It just seems kinda thrown together to be the James boys. But then again they may have just decided to go make a example on the fly so to speak. Sheets was executed one in the head has always been a execution sign. They get one in the even if they’re dead.

 

[Benjamin Gates]

Yes, they did deny it in a letter, but they have denied many things they did because they felt like the blame for them doing it was on their oppressors. In this case, I personally believe it was them in Gallatin that day but they were not there to rob the bank as much as they were there to get even and make a stand. I do not believe that mistaken identity is what killed the banker Sheets. He was double tapped, one between the eyes and one in the heart. There were other witnesses there that did not mention any accusations before the shots were fired. I think the "evidence" supporting that claim is very flimsy, to say the least. If you look at the days and months leading up to that day in Gallatin there was some very bad news in the papers which we know Jesse read. Nothing specific to discuss here, but this will give you and others the idea of what was happening in the period one year from the robbery taking place. When I say "get even" it was not for any of the following, it is just to establish what was going on in their heads before the robbery took place on Dec. 7th, 1869.

Sep 6 1st westbound train arrives in San Francisco

Jan 13 Colored National Labor Union, 1st Black labor convention meets in Washington, D.C.

Feb 27 John Menard is 1st African American to make a speech in the US Congress

Feb 23 Louisiana governor signs public accommodations law

Feb 20 Tennessee Governor W C Brownlow declares martial law in Ku Klux Klan crisis

Feb 15 Charges of Treason against Jefferson Davis are dropped

Mar 16 Hiram R. Revels makes 1st official speech by an African American in the Senate

Mar 13 Arkansas legislature passes anti-Ku Klux Klan law

Those are headlines of the year 1869 which were front page news of the day, not put together by me to be significant, but the actual events reported as they happened.

Is my first question concerning the Gallatin robbery is: was Jesse W. James affiliated with the KKK? I have never heard or read it discussed. The link between Albert Pike and the two societies of the K.G.C. and the K.K.K. has been the topic most, but Jesse is never mentioned in those discussions.

L.C. Thanks for your participation!

I believe Jesse was a member of the K.K.K. along with every member of the K.G.C. I also believe they were all masons. So as a prerequisite of being a member of the K.G.C. you were also a mason and a member of the K.K.K. But that is my opinion only. The prerequisite could involve more than these 2 organizations ... so everyone is on the same page, so to speak.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

If the James brothers done it, sheets would’ve been the mission. It just seems kinda thrown together to be the James boys. But then again they may have just decided to go make a example on the fly so to speak. Sheets was executed one in the head has always been a execution sign. They get one in the even if they’re dead.

Agree 100% Sheets or the bank or Judge James F McFarran perhaps? https://books.google.com/books?id=p...ge&q=Judge James F. McFerran gallatin&f=false