The Two Soldiers

[Hal Croves]

Think Hal came up with some good indication that Holmes was not at the death bed.

EarnieP,
The Waltz/Holmes deathbed confession simply could not have taken place, a fact confirmed by J. Bark years ago.

 

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[cactusjumper]

But the big question Joe, after all those years of serious discussions, study and postings;
Did you find the Dutchman's mine?

(If so, a map would be nice, carved in stone if you think it appropriate.)

Ernie,

As I have mentioned before, I never searched for the LDM.....On my own. I have researched the legend seven ways from Sunday, but have long believed the mine has been found. I started out believing in Jesuit treasures, buried in the Superstitions. Once I dissuaded myself of the Jesuit notion, I had become interested in the LaFrance cave of gold bars. My Uncle, Chuck Ribaudo and his partners had all held one of the bars in their hands. They were all involved in the search with Harry LaFrance. Chuck and his partner Ernie Provence are the ones who hauled Harry out of the mountains and took him to the VA Hospital in Prescott.

I think I know where the LDM is, but it is empty now.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Hal Croves]

Ernie,

As I have mentioned before, I never searched for the LDM.....On my own. I have researched the legend seven ways from Sunday, but have long believed the mine has been found. I started out believing in Jesuit treasures, buried in the Superstitions. Once I dissuaded myself of the Jesuit notion, I had become interested in the LaFrance cave of gold bars. My Uncle, Chuck Ribaudo and his partners had all held one of the bars in their hands. They were all involved in the search with Harry LaFrance. Chuck and his partner Ernie Provence are the ones who hauled Harry out of the mountains and took him to the VA Hospital in Prescott.

I think I know where the LDM is, but it is empty now.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

cactusjumper,
Did the partners leave a description of the bar, enough to create a sketch?

 

[sgtfda]

Years ago I found a photo of it. It was in a California museum at the time.

 

[EarnieP]

EarnieP,
The Waltz/Holmes deathbed confession simply could not have taken place, a fact confirmed by J. Bark years ago.

Hello Hal,

Yes, you have provided some good strong evidence here in support of that 'fact'.
I used the word 'indication' so not to bruise the toes of those who continue to venerate the original deathbed legend.

Hope all is well with you.
EarnieP

 

[EarnieP]

Ernie,

As I have mentioned before, I never searched for the LDM.....On my own. I have researched the legend seven ways from Sunday, but have long believed the mine has been found. I started out believing in Jesuit treasures, buried in the Superstitions. Once I dissuaded myself of the Jesuit notion, I had become interested in the LaFrance cave of gold bars. My Uncle, Chuck Ribaudo and his partners had all held one of the bars in their hands. They were all involved in the search with Harry LaFrance. Chuck and his partner Ernie Provence are the ones who hauled Harry out of the mountains and took him to the VA Hospital in Prescott.

I think I know where the LDM is, but it is empty now.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

Joe, since it's empty do you have any objection to divulging where you believe that empty mine to be located? A general area would be fine. Hopefully something a little smaller than "in the Superstition", or "south of the Salt".

I now lean towards the Pit Mine after the string of interesting comments we had concerning that area. Before that I thought maybe the Indian Paint Mine, but I understand that is a common newbie mistake? Even earlier, Ramsey (sp?) had me convinced it was over on Red Mountain.
Apparently I am easily swayed.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hello Hal,

Yes, you have provided some good strong evidence here in support of that 'fact'.
I used the word 'indication' so not to bruise the toes of those who continue to venerate the original deathbed legend.

Hope all is well with you.
EarnieP

I have convinced myself and struggled here to explain why.
Most objective people will understand it.



Yes, an amazing August.

 

[EarnieP]

I have convinced myself and struggled here to explain why.
Most objective people will understand it.



Yes, an amazing August.

No struggle, you showed it clearly.

 

[markmar]

Hal

Also the Waltz deathbed cofession was published before the " manuscript " was made public . Jim Bark saw only elder Holmes breaking ore . This is not a fact that Holmes was not at the deathbed confession .

Read this at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...wnie Holmes vs James McCarthy - LDM Story.pdf

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal

Also the Waltz deathbed cofession was published before the " manuscript " were made public . Jim Bark saw only elder Holmes breaking ore . This is not a fact that Holmes was not at the deathbed confession .

Read this at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...wnie Holmes vs James McCarthy - LDM Story.pdf

markmar,

You are arguing against fact and not very well.
Holmes was not in Phoenix that day to hear Waltz's deathbed confession.
Anyone, yourself included, who disagrees with this fact (taken from several historical sources) should be able to explain why.
Intelligently.

Personally, I don't think that you or anyone else can.


Those who continue to publicly promote the Waltz/Homes confession as fact, should expect to be challenged.

 

[markmar]

Hal

You have nothing as fact but only a journalist statement based maybe in gossip . You are free to believe what you want .
You promote your theories as facts without strong proofs/documents .

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal

You have nothing as fact but only a journalist statement based maybe in gossip . You are free to believe what you want .
You promote your theories as facts without strong proofs/documents .

Newspaper reports and a story confirmed by J. Bark.
What can you offer?

 

[sgtfda]

Hal is a great researcher. I have no problem accepting his opinion on this subject.

 

[nobodie]

Hal,
You make a good argument about Dick Holmes not being at J.W. Death bed. It does make me think about it. I may have missed it somewhere, but where did Dick get the information ( clues ) that he passed down to Brownie. All those years he searched Then Brownie passed the clues to Clay and Clay passed them down to his people who are now looking for it . Did I miss it?

 

[sgtfda]

No they did.

 

[cactusjumper]

Hal,
You make a good argument about Dick Holmes not being at J.W. Death bed. It does make me think about it. I may have missed it somewhere, but where did Dick get the information ( clues ) that he passed down to Brownie. All those years he searched Then Brownie passed the clues to Clay and Clay passed them down to his people who are now looking for it . Did I miss it?

nobodie,

From what I have heard, Clay does not pass anything along that he thinks is important.......even to his "partners". I'm sure they have all believed they were hearing everything he knows, but I doubt it.

Gook luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[azdave35]

nobodie,

From what I have heard, Clay does not pass anything along that he thinks is important.......even to his "partners". I'm sure they have all believed they were hearing everything he knows, but I doubt it.

Gook luck,

Joe Ribaudo

very true joe....most of the dutch hunters have a spewl that they tell the tourists but they never reveal anything of importance to anyone

 

[coazon de oro]

markmar,

You are arguing against fact and not very well.
Holmes was not in Phoenix that day to hear Waltz's deathbed confession.
Anyone, yourself included, who disagrees with this fact (taken from several historical sources) should be able to explain why.
Intelligently.

Personally, I don't think that you or anyone else can.


Those who continue to publicly promote the Waltz/Homes confession as fact, should expect to be challenged.

Howdy Hermano,

How can you say it is a fact when Jim Bark also wrote this:

"Hunting the Dutchman in not for old men. Nor for old prospectors who sit on park benches in all our western towns - still filled with hope, exaggeration, specimens and nicotine. They must step aside and let the younger generation hunt the Dutchman, chew their own tobacco, tell their own lies and buy or steal their own specimens. Someone, some day will fit the parts together more successfully than we have done. Good luck to him!"

That's his own admission of not being truthful.

Homar

 

[cactusjumper]

Howdy Hermano,

How can you say it is a fact when Jim Bark also wrote this:

"Hunting the Dutchman in not for old men. Nor for old prospectors who sit on park benches in all our western towns - still filled with hope, exaggeration, specimens and nicotine. They must step aside and let the younger generation hunt the Dutchman, chew their own tobacco, tell their own lies and buy or steal their own specimens. Someone, some day will fit the parts together more successfully than we have done. Good luck to him!"

That's his own admission of not being truthful.

Homar

Homar,

Interesting that someone who, by "his own admission" doesn't read, explains the meaning of Jim Bark's quote to someone like Hal, who's obviously very well read. IMHO, Bark is not saying he's not truthful, only making an observation of what he had observed in that era.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Hal Croves]

nobodie,

From what I have heard, Clay does not pass anything along that he thinks is important.......even to his "partners". I'm sure they have all believed they were hearing everything he knows, but I doubt it.

Gook luck,

Joe Ribaudo

The published Salizar Survey story might be the exception.