three to sleuth

tesorobandit · May 30, 2012

Hi All ,
I have three puzzlers. First, the short nose bullet-not the impact one- has a peculiar base that I eludes identification. There is a primary ring then a conical impression thoughts? Next is a bras "B" . Seems too big for a kepi. next is a copper bullet shaped container with what seems a cap that I dare not pry off because when I shake I hear a grainy shake sound. 2 1/2 " long. Rather light to hold.
Thanks
TB

tennessee digger · May 30, 2012

Your bullet could be a Tom Greene. We would need to know the measurements to correctly I.D. it. What general area was it found? A lot of them come out of Texas and La. Tennessee digger

tesorobandit · May 30, 2012

some comparisons

tennessee digger said:
Your bullet could be a Tom Greene. We would need to know the measurements to correctly I.D. it. What general area was it found? A lot of them come out of Texas and La. Tennessee digger

I live in rich, rich, richmond va.
I have submitted one more pic to compare sizes. The find is to the left of the 3 ring minie (north w/ star int.) The two smaller are just other finds. I think they are older, but around here, you never know: a lot of holiday (4th and new years) firearms.
I found a 10 in saber fragment yesterday- quite rusty, but a good find.
TB

DCMatt · May 30, 2012

The copper "bullet" shaped tube is lipstick.

DCMatt

tesorobandit · May 30, 2012

DCMatt said:
The copper "bullet" shaped tube is lipstick.

DCMatt

you are kidding about the lipstick-right?
This was found 8" deep.

Roger Mn. · May 30, 2012

Clean the flat side of the lipstik. Might have a date like 1898.

DCMatt · May 30, 2012

tesorobandit said:
you are kidding about the lipstick-right?
This was found 8" deep.

Not kidding. Deeper doesn't always mean older.

DCMatt

TheCannonballGuy · May 30, 2012

About your 2.5"-long brass tube:
It does resemble a Lipstick tube, and that's what it might be. But it also looks like a "Match-Safe." Before the invention of waterproof matches, a Match-Safe was a small (pocket-sized) tightly-closing brass container for soldiers (and "pioneers," etc) to keep a supply of matches dry. The sound you say you hear when you shake it may be some loose matches still inside it.

About your letter B:
Despite its resemblance to the stamped-brass US Army company letters, the unusually large cast-brass letters with tack-like pins on the back are now known to not be a Military insignia. They have been found on civilian leather horsegear, and there is no match-up for them in Army Regulations.

About your mystery-bullet:
It appears to be a .577/.58-caliber Enfield minie-ball which has been "pulled" from the back end, by what is called a Double-Helix bulletwork. I'll attach a couple of photos, showing a Double-Helix bulletworm, and some other minie-balls which were backwards-pulled. Sometimes a soldier erroneously loaded a minie backwards into the rifle barrel, and tried to "pull" it with a Double-Helix bulletworm. But the spiral pointed arms of the Double-Helix worm tended to just dig a circular trench into the minie's base-rim. You'll see what I mean in the photo.

tesorobandit · May 30, 2012

TheCannonballGuy said:
About your 2.5"-long brass tube:
It does resemble a Lipstick tube, and that's what it might be. But it also looks like a "Match-Safe." Before the invention of waterprrof matches, a Match-Safe was a small (pocket-sized) tightly-closing brass container for soldiers (and "pioneers," etc) to keep a supply of matches dry. The sound you say you hear when you shake it may be some loose matches still inside it.

About your letter B:
Despite its resemblance to the stamped-brass US Army company letters, the large cast-brass letters with tack-like pins on the back are now known to not be a Military insignia. They have been found on civilian leather horsegear, and there is no match-up for them in Army Regulations.

About your mystery-bullet:
It appears to be a .577/.58-caliber Enfield minie-ball which has been "pulled" from the back end, by what is called a Double-Helix bulletwork. I'll attach a couple of photos, showing a Double-Helix bulletworm, and some other minie-balls which were ackwards-pulled. Sometimes a soldier erroneously loaded a minie backwards into the rifle barrel, and tried to "pull" it with a Double-Helix bulletworm. But the spiral pointed arms of the Double-Helix worm tended to just dig a circular trench into the minie's base-rim. You'll see what I mean in the photo.

Great sleuthing all around!
The pulled bullet theory is beyond sound-spot on IMO. The "B" was too large for to be a kepi, but was the font was quite similar, so not military. I guess I have to tinker with the Lipstick/Match holder a bit. BOOOOOMMM!
Thanks all.
Bandito

timekiller · May 30, 2012

DCMatt said:
The copper "bullet" shaped tube is lipstick.

DCMatt

I would agree,see no worry about boom, :laughing7:

Most likely dried up lip stick I've got quite a few over the years some are neat with cool figures & such on them,but below is one much like yours.As said check the end most are marked with Co.Names.

TheCannonballGuy · May 30, 2012

Here's a photo which shows how a Double-Helix bulletworm was intended to work. Its spiral "double corkscrew" shape worked pretty well on a minie-ball's nose ...but it had difficulty getting a grip on a minie's base.

Please note, one of the two spiraling iron arms is broken off the Double-Helix bulletworm in the photo. But it shows how the pointed arms dug into the minie's conical nose.