✅ SOLVED Tools or Rocks??

[rockheadhunter421]

Here's some pieces of rhyolite I found. They look like they were used as simple tools for a survival situation. Are these tools or just rocks?

 

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[GatorBoy]

I think you would really benefit from watching somebody knap flint.
Those shapes are just the way it naturally separates from itself when struck.... its just how the shockwave spreads and diminishes in the stone when a flake is removed its not a form in any man made or purposely made sense of the word.
The reason you find them in many places it's because they exist absolutely everywhere any knapping was done.
There will be hundreds of these at the feet of anyone who just broke down a spall to create a nice point or blade.
With your logic there would be hundreds of tools at the feet of someone knapping stone... That's just simply not the case.. Its called debris the reason you don't see any other flaking is because its just debris from making something else.. A lot of the people who are trying to help you have quite a lot of experience its not that they just don't understand North Carolina or these particular pieces you're finding believe me we've seen them all before. To suggest anything that you're talking about is going over our heads and personally my own is disrespectful and frankly I've heard it from you several times and it's starting to bother me.
If you want to have your own imaginary collection go right ahead but please don't disrespect people who use real logic

 

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[rockheadhunter421]

Ok you win bud. If I had your email I would send you pictures personally of what I found today. I worked for 13 hrs on a 90 degree day with a weed eater in my hands yesterday. Today, I was surface hunting and digging for about 8 hrs. I got a box full of debris, flakes, scrapers, tools, and broken arrowheads; forms of archaeological evidence. I'm going to clean them up like another member here suggested and post 'em tomorrow. I'll share them with y'all to show you what I'm workin on. These are fresh from the farm. I actually collected some nice points/tools today. One I took a picture of before I picked it up. It looks like a jacks reef corner made of black chert I think.

 

[GatorBoy]

Even broken ones are cool ... That is when they were something more at one time.

 

[yakker]

It's not like there was a law against them using debitage. I collected that longer flake b/c there is a pattern to that form. I have a few more pieces just like it but with more patina. They are were all found at different sites. That form/pattern I believe was made when they broke down the raw material. It is a simple cutting edge like your pocket knife would have. You all are expecting to see the micro-flaking/secondary flaking that is the indicator of human alteration. I still think y'all are right about that one being debitage but I see a pattern with that form that was created unintentionally. Then, it does seem like it would be smart of them to use such a flake without having to put time into micro-flaking it. What I'm talking about might go over your heads but I don't care. I found the ancient "Indian-apolis" of NC today. I'll post them artifacts tomorrow.

Not 'over my head'. You keep coming off as though we are all dense, a bunch of school kids w/o a clue- and that you know this topic better than all the rest of us. And that's not a fair assumption. Of COURSE there's no 'rule' about what was used and what was not used. Where you fail to understand us- what seems to consistently go over your head is that one sharp edge w/o secondary work does not make an artifact. It is- or can be- evidence of manufacture. (and I can say from my professional knowledge that it's nothing at all like the blade of a pocket knife). So, while we're happy for you when you find artifacts, (and we do understand the amount of effort it takes, BTW), we cannot (or will not necessarily)cheer as you haul broken rocks home, clean them up and post them. I think we all understand the amount of time and effort it takes to research and locate artifacts. And many/most of us hold down full-time jobs to boot. You are not alone in your pursuit of historically relevant artifacts. They are all hard-earned.

And if you had a hard time getting through one of my longer posts on another thread without getting distracted- how in the world are you going to get through an article of 10 pages or more, written by an archaeologist? Research is not easy. The reading is complicated and long- and technical. Far from entertaining. But worth it.

While I applaud your hard work- and successes in locating/recovering artifacts, I would caution you to temper your ego when it comes to your personal opinion concerning certain finds. Humility goes a long way. Everyone (besides seasoned professionals) has a learning curve. And that includes you too.

I apologize for coming off a bit 'short' here, but the effects of head-desk are becoming severe. Yakker

 

[rockheadhunter421]

Thanks for everyone's input on my thread. I believe this one was very well debated. I knew what I was doing posting this thread. It's a simple theory and it's nothing I imagined by myself. These ancient people liked taking short and simple paths every once in a while. I have my own theories of them. For example, how they were like ancient Macguyvers, how they could make use of every natural thing and how they could make expedient tools. Not everything they done is known. Some of the things they done were lost in time. All evidence that reminds us of them are these artifacts we see and collect. I appreciate all who took the time to contribute. Happy huntin' and may God bless!

 

[GatorBoy]

??.. Of course one of those guys grabbed a flake and used it to cut something many many times in history... That's a no brainer... It's not something we don't agree with or don't understand... I think it doesn't matter what anybody writes.. you just seem to "hear" what you want... And yes it is your imagination if you think every flake with a sharp edge you pick up was used as a tool there's no getting around that ...You just don't seem to get it... Nobody is debating anything with you.
What you're talking about is not some new theory or something that you came up with before someone else... It's even more Lehman then artifacts 101.... I'm signing off of this useless conversation good luck to you,....... Yikes

 

[yakker]

 

[mainejman]

And not to mention all the cobble trees you'll have if you keep saving everything.My Toyota corolla has hauled more rock than most trucks I've seen...mjm

 

[rockheadhunter421]

Some artifacts really look like just plain rocks but some can be very significant, from an archaeological standpoint. Here is a very large flake or preform from Stokes County. I saw it at the local Antique Store. They had this stone priced at $175 but 50% off, so they wanted about $90 for it. There was another rock in that collection, but I should have took a picture of it too. It really looked natural, the material was a metasandstone/quartzite. It was shaped like a small baseball bat (a handheld club maybe?) and it was smooth all over. That one was $50. Also, I saw an exceptional Dalton for $135 and an exceptional Hardaway for $195. They had celts, chipped axes, grooved axes, game stones, grinding stones and small mill stones for sale there too. I have see many collections around here and if I posted some pictures of what they had displayed, some here would definitely see one that is assumed to be natural. You really have to hunt in NC to see what I'm talking about. Yea you guys can say I'm a rookie on here but I hunt with experience. I find stones all the time and make use of them. Heck, I make tomhawks and sell them like crazy. I am a Macguyver myself. I've even gave one I made to my buddy for nothing. At first, I thought these tomahawks were going to be dead soldiers, but with some time and patience they actually sell better than the true artifacts I have. All together, some people know what they want for their collection, whether it's natural or not. Yes, artifacts have value to a collector but then there are some buyers that know they're collecting something unique and buy it. I never mislead anyone. One rock I posted here a while back, I was told it was natural here. I had a buyer on it for $25 so I let him have it. He thought it was a grinding stone so I feel like the customer is always right. With all this said, this all depends on what you want to collect. If your area has a lot of debris, then I should have no right to tell them they can't collect it. I just tell them nice finds and say that they're in the right spot to find something better.

 

[rockheadhunter421]

Here's what I saw in the antique store today.

 

[wetfly]

Ty Webb: A flute without holes, is not a flute. A donut without a hole, is a Danish. CADDYSHACK

 

[rockheadhunter421]

Ty Webb: A flute without holes, is not a flute. A donut without a hole, is a Danish. CADDYSHACK

Great movie! The guy who cleaned the pool and took a bite outta that Baby Ruth candy bar is like my arrowhead huntin' buddy. We have hunted at a very productive golf course before too. There was artifacts laying all over the outside perimeter of the course. My buddy found a 6" long ovoid-shaped, bi-pointed blade and he freaking dropped it and it broke in half. Needless to say, that made me feel sick to my stomach when I saw that.

 

[yakker]

It's not about what people will buy. It's not about what people want to think- or imagine they know. It's about what is. This is like arguing w/ a fence post.

 

[GatorBoy]

Just grin and nod... just grin and nod..

 

[rockheadhunter421]

My nickname is Rockhead. When I think and see rocks, I think of the primitive lifestyle I could have had if I lived 1000s of years ago. Don't you see a connection here? Instead, of me watching someone knap stone, I'm learning by myself using the hammerstone and antler method. I can imagine myself now, sitting on a rock at the edge of Pilot Mountain, overlooking the Piedmont of NC to the south. There is actually many good places to sit like that there; this mountain is known as "The Great Guide." Here's my quote for this thread from the FIELD OF DREAMS, "If you build it, they will come."

 

[GatorBoy]

The thing is we're not talking about an alien species we're talking about people who thought it was very important to teach each other one generation after the other deepening their understanding and streamlining the way they utilize the environment in which they live.
You sitting by yourself coming up with your own ideas is just that...
They would say the same thing I'm about to say you're doing yourself a disservice by ignoring your elders and others who have information that would deepen your knowledgebase..
And to be honest I was starting to get the impression that you got the nickname Rockhead for a completely different reason.

 

[Charl]

rockheadhunter421wrote:

"Here's my quote for this thread from the FIELD OF DREAMS, "If you build it, they will come."

You mean, "if you sling it, we will come"?

 

[rockheadhunter421]

Here's a picture of the gang here. You want to talk about elders and sorority, then here's my comparison. Gatorboy must be the fraternity leader of the Lamdbas too. How's Lewis, Gilbert, Booger, Lamar and the rest of the gang?

 

[rockheadhunter421]

I'm not a big, rude jerk. I have much Southern hospitality. So if you come bring your scuba gear. There is gold and artifacts in the Yadkin and Rocky Rivers here in NC. You want to be a hardcore artifact hunter that is where it's at. I have heard of gold Native American jewelry being found in the rivers here. You know NC had the first gold discovery in the 13 colonies also? There are many artifacts and treasures in the rivers here. I am basically a guide. Also, I am very passive until someone wants to try to belittle me. I have already received PM from a few other users here that has told me what they thought about Gatorboy. He's just the antagonist here. I can see right through him. Or better yet, I'll place him on the ignore list. If I could, I would have blocked this thread two pages ago.

 

[wetfly]

Dude....... Feel like a fish biting a baited hook here but c'mon man give it a rest already! If ya wanna blow yur own horn ,go to band camp, otherwise post your finds and carry on please- HUA??