Trasure... South Atlantic Island 700 mile East of Brazil "Trindade Island" ?

[Marcos Juliano]

Hello Kanacki,


I am so thankful to be able to talk to you and share this information.

This finding of the pirates being captured and executed in Havana in 1832 confirms the story that Pirate Zulmiro told in 1880 that the Pirate Zarolho was captured by the Spanish and taken to hang in Havana.


They were carrying pirates at that time to be executed in Havana, very cool this confirmation.

According to Pirate Zulmiro, pirate José Sancho had his ship sunk by a Spanish frigate and he died along with his entire crew.

He thought that the Russian pirate Zarolho had been executed in Havana, but the Zarolho managed to escape and died in India in Bombay in the year 1850 and before dying handed over the treasure map.


Interesting, the treasure map was delivered by the pirate Zarolho without anyone knowing his name, only knew that he was a Russian pirate with a large scar on his face.

It was the pirate Zulmiro who spoke the name of the 3 pirates who hid the great treasure on Trindad Island:

Zulmiro, Zarolho and José Sancho.

Most intriguing, the map that was leaked to the Brazilian press in January 1940 by a Brazilian naval lieutenant who had the map in his file shows exactly the initials in the upper right corner, after the name TRINDADE:

Z.Z.J.S



A map that appeared in India in 1850 converges with an account of a pirate hiding in southern Brazil in 1880.

This Map was in the possession of the captain of the English opium trading ship in 1850 and received from the hands of pirate Zarolho.

After the 3 English expeditions that were made to Trindad Island with this map, and due to the collapse of land right on top of the treasury deposit, the map was handed to the British Admiralty who occupied the island in 1894 until 1896 and returned the island to Brazil, and delivered the mapara to the Brazilian Navy.

This lieutenant of the Brazilian Navy leaked the map to the press in 1940.

A friend of mine, a biologist teacher, was on the island last year and took a picture of the landslide right on top of the treasure spot on Southwest Bay Beach.

Take a Look, he is pointing to the landslide








Best Regards


Marcos Juliano

 

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[KANACKI]

Hello Marco Juliano

I am not sure about the claims E F Knight about the claims of Captain John Painter. Especially the story of his son going on a voyage to Santos with coal from Sunderland Newcastle.Were you able to confirm that the ship :John sailed to Santos in Brazilian port records?

Another thing Captain John painter did not become a captain until...after well after 1850 here is his masters Certificate dated 1861..



Another factor in searching through crew lists in 1850 we found no painter on any ship in India that year. However we did find John Painter on a ship in 1848 visiting Bombay and Calcutta.



We searched the times of India birth death marriages records, national archive in London deaths and marriage records. Crew lists etc and no record of any such pirate dying in 1850. By law in 1850 all ships captains had to legally record deaths on their ships of passengers and crew.

So if the source of story of the pirate dying in India was via E F Knight telling of "Captain John Painter"

So what year Edward Stammers Young started posting letters to the newspaper?


feliz Natal

Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

Oh I should mention this information was collected by tireless efforts of others that used to post on this website and I thank them in advance for their hardwork.



Merry Christmas

Kanacki

 

[Marcos Juliano]

Hello Kanacki,

First of all, merry christmas my friend.

In E.F.Knight's book he does not mention the name of the captain who met the Russian pirate in India, he just calls him with the capital letter P.

The name of the captain was mentioned by a man named Carl Badendick, who according to a report in the 1895 Toledo Blade newspaper claimed to be part of the crew of the sailing ship "JOHN" of a Newcastle company that visited Trindad Island in the year. 1880 with Captain P's son on board.



According to this report, he says that the name of the captain who met the Russian pirate was POLLY, and that the name of the Newcastle company that made the crossing to the port of Santos in Brazil and then back to England stopped at Trindad Island. The name of the company was J.TULLY, the captain of this trip according to Carl Badendick, was called PYPER.



I was able to find a record that right in this window of time there was a Newcastle shipping company called J.TULLY that owned a sailboat named JOHN.




John 1874

About the Russian Pirate who died in India, see that he did not reveal to anyone that he was a pirate, only Captain Polly, and he died in a hospital in Bombay, was no longer part of the crew of Captain Polly's ship, so there should be no record of his death as a Pirate or even as a crew member, as he was no longer part of the crew.

At the hospital in Bombay there may be, but I think it will be very difficult to find him.

Here in Santos, Brazil, it will also be difficult to find the list of ships that docked in 1880, perhaps in the English archives it may be easier to find the record of this voyage, they say that they took off on June 15, 1880 on the island of Trindade.

Edward Young Stammers began writing the letters in April 1896, wrote 8 letters over a 4 month period and was murdered one month after the last letter was published.




Feliz Natal!

 

[KANACKI]

Hello Marco Juliano

Yes that is correct In E.F.Knight's book he does not mention the name of the captain who met the Russian pirate in India, he just calls him with the capital letter P.

And it is an alleged crew member on the John claimed captain P. as you said below.

According to this report, he says that the name of the captain who met the Russian pirate was POLLY, and that the name of the Newcastle company that made the crossing to the port of Santos in Brazil and then back to England stopped at Trindad Island. The name of the company was J.TULLY, the captain of this trip according to Carl Badendick, was called PYPER.

But it is not the only claim and that is the problem.

Here is an example of relying to much on newspapers. The reporters and even sometimes the interviewee forget exact details and some times add them.

You can see yourself below the following newspaper story below...









This version clearly gives the name Captain "Painter" Was the man who met the alleged Russian pirate in 1850.

Now we have also two versions of the story?
Was the captains name who met this pirate in 1850 captain Polly or John Painter?

In searching the in the UK and Ireland, Masters and Mates Certificates, 1850-1927. There was only one sea captain with the last name Polly and that was a William Polly as you can see below.



In the Glasgow, Scotland, Crew Lists, 1863-1901 in 1874 there is record of him being listed as crew in 1874.

Yet he too was never a sea captain in 1850.

And searching in the records in Families in British India data base turned up nothing either.

So regardless if the identity of this alleged sea captain that met this alleged pirate? John Painter or William Polly both was never a sea captain in 1850. Regardless of which newspaper version you believe.

I have much much more......

Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

Hamburg Passenger Lists, 1850-1934 for Carl Bodendieck Was actually a German who immigrated to the united states from Hamburg in 1882

He was never a crew member on the "John" Here is his bio below.....

Name: Carl Bodendieck
Gender: männlich (Male)
Departure Age: 22
Birth Date: abt 1860
Residence Place: Groß Kadenberge, Pommern
Departure Date: 8 Nov 1882
Departure Place: Hamburg, Deutschland (Germany)
Arrival Place: New York
Occupation: Landmann
Ship Name: Suevia
Captain: Franzen
Shipping Clerk: Aug. Bolten Wm. Miller's Nachfolger
Shipping Line: Hamburg-Amerikanische Packetfahrt-Actien-Gesellschaft

View attachment 1783075

Its late I will show more later...

Kanacki

 

[Marcos Juliano]

Hello Kanacki,

You are right.

These newspapers are not really 100% reliable.

But it should be noted that the article you posted is from 1930 that talks about John Painter.

Carl Badendick's report is from 1895, where he mentions Newcastle's J.TULLY Company, which actually owned a ship called JOHN, and that company was engaged in maritime trade with South American ports.

There is even another 1913 report by Carl Badendick that he says he wants to organize a new expedition to Trindad Island in search of the Treasure, from USA, an expedition that never got off the ground.

But note that the immigration form you posted says that he immigrated from Germany in 1882 to the United States.

The expedition he claims to have participated in was 1880, which left Newcastle and went to Brazil and returned in the same year 1880, there is no proof that he was not aboard the ship JOHN, unless the ship was found. Ship's log book.


He may well have participated in this trip while working in England in 1880, and after that returned to Germany and in 1882 immigrated to the USA.

The immigration card just proves that there was someone with that name.


I believe a search in the local English archives might be more accurate.

In May 2020 we will be launching the book I wrote in England with the support of the British Consulate, and I believe Newcastle journalists will dig through this story and be able to reveal more information.

 

[KANACKI]

Hello Marco Juliano

Yes it is correct the John was owned by Newcastle's J.TULLY Company. There is no issue there that ship did exist.

I really wish you well with that quest. My associate and old friend of mine Hardluck was contacted by probably people you know or met have met down in Santos looking for help in exactly the same thing. Hardluck too busy with another project referred them to my esteemed pirate buddy Crow. Crow engaged the services of researchers with access The National Archives, Kew. However as you, I and Crow Knows that groups conclusions that the treasure is somewhere on Ilhabela is purely wishful thinking. However nice people they are they are convinced with some thing is just not there.

I Crow and others if this alleged treasure exists it was or still on Trindade. So in effect there is many points we are in agreement.




In the PRO the national archives there registers of crew agreements they are compulsory by law before a ship can engage sailors to go on a voyage. My apologies I did not elaborate further. the only year we found a record of ship John was for 1881. There was no record of a voyage of a ship called the John in 1880.

You can see for yourself as I elaborate further. As you can see I found the official registration number of the ship John.


Reference:
BT 99/1326/14
Description:
Ship: John; Official number: 73709.
Thomas Chalk; rank/rating, Master; year of birth, 1836; place of birth, Barking; previous ship, Wasp.
James Clark; rank/rating, Mate; year of birth, 1853; place of birth, Yarmouth; previous ship, Ann.
William Thompson; rank/rating, 3 H; year of birth, 1859; place of birth, Caster; previous ship, Kingfisher.
Samuel Warner; rank/rating, 4 H; year of birth, 1861; place of birth, Gorleston; previous ship, Goodintent.
Alfred Grange; rank/rating, 5 H; year of birth, 1860; place of birth, London; previous ship, Greyhound.
Albert Knights; rank/rating, Apprentice; age, 15; place of birth, Yarmouth; indentured 6 July 1881 in Yarmouth.
Date:
1881
Held by:
The National Archives, Kew
Legal status:
Public Record(s)
Language:
English
Closure status:
Open Document, Open Description
Access conditions:
Open Immediately

The key is the official ship reference number 73709.which is used throughout that registered ships life. You can trace documents to that ship

So in effect you can search the 1880 card catalog looking for the John using the above OFFICAL reference number of the Ship: John; Official number: 73709

All shipping records are numerically grouped as you can see for yourself below the the file grouping below does not have John; Official number: 73709 for 1880 below.

BT 99/1288 1880
Official Nos: 73420, 73421, 73423, 73425, 73427, 73428, 73429, 73431, 73433, 73435, 73461, 73462, 73463, 73464, 73466, 73467, 73468, 73469, 73470, 73471, 73472, 73473, 73474, 73475, 73476, 73478, 73479, 73480, 73481, 73482, 73483, 73487, 73489, 73490, 73496, 73497, 73498, 73499, 73500, 73501, 73502, 73503, 73504, 73505, 73526, 73527, 73528, 73529, 73530, 73531, 73532, 73533, 73534, 73535, 73536, 73538, 73539, 73540, 73541, 73542, 73543, 73544, 73545, 73546, 73548, 73550, 73551, 73553, 73554, 73556, 73558

Details
BT 99/1289 1880
Official Nos: 74560, 74611, 74617, 74618, 74619, 74620, 74621, 74623, 74624, 74625, 74626, 74627, 74628, 74630, 74634, 74635, 74686, 74687, 74688, 74690, 74691, 74692, 74693, 74694, 74695, 74696, 74697, 74698, 74701, 74702, 74703, 74704, 74705, 74706, 74707, 74709, 74710, 74711, 74712, 74713, 74714, 74715, 74716, 74717, 74718, 74719, 74720,...

Therefore we can conclude there was no records of The John being active in 1880.

Sadly you cannot make a ship be some where its wanted to be simply to fit a theory. One must go where the facts take you. you can see part of original document



In 1881 the ship was fishing in the north sea.

Now to confirm for 1880 you can try 1880 Lloyds registers. Lloyds register is clearing house and ship rating reference for insurance for ship owners. In registers for each year you can find Ships name, Tonnage years built, type, Captain, Owners and what ports visiting.

Most of registers are online except for sadly 1880 so you have to manually search the register. That is a time consuming search.

Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

Hello Marco Juliano

There might be some thing else with William Polly. He might of been the disgruntled expedition member that was dumped in Bahia. The following document relates to crew member by the name of William Polly mariner released from service from a ship from Parra to New York in 1893. It is not for certain but possible that William Polly met Carl Badendick who could been possibly living in New York at the time. And told the story of the John and the Trinidad treasure story. Carl Badendick retelling of the story he said the captain who met the pirate 1850 was Captain Polly.



E F Knight mentions in his book he had trouble with crew member with his Alerte expedition. Was it Captain Polly one of the deserters?

Kanacki

 

[Marcos Juliano]

Hello Kanacki,

Please try to search for this Ship JOHN:

Name: JOHN
Type: Sailing Vessel
Launched: 09/12/1874
Completed: 12/1874
Builder: Cole Bros
Yard: Willington Quay
Yard Number: 27
Dimensions: 370grt, 355nrt, 147.5 x 26.9 x 14.0ft
Engines: None
Engines by: n/a
Propulsion: Sail, rigged as a 3 masted schooner; (1892: Barquentine)
Construction: Iron
Reg Number: 68914

History:
16/01/1875 J Tully & Co, Sunderland

1891 Oliver SS Piper, Port Talbot

1895 Jack Sutcliffe, Grimsby

1913 Ernest Sutcliffe, Grimsby

1915 Walter B Grieve, St John's, New Foundland

22/01/1919 Abandoned
Comments: 1892: Re-rigged as a Barquentine
22/01/1919: Abandoned in mid-North Atlantic
On a voyage from Cadiz to Newfoundland


The registration Number is 68914

I Guess this is the Ship John that was on Trindad Island in 1880.

Maybe you can find more information about.

 

[KANACKI]

The 1889 Lloyds shipping records dated 1889 below lists the "John"



Whats is interests a J Pyper was listed as a a captain.

This in theory we could trace this captain an he might turn up a connection to Santos Brazil in 1880. through other records and shipping indexes.

Gravesite Details Pyper, John buried on: 28 April 1910 recorded at: Rosehill Cemetery (Angus) date of death 26 April 1910.

In the 1891 census he is listed as being in country of Durham and listed as a mariner.



We know he became a captain in 1864 as his certificate shows....



Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

Crew lists for official number

jOHN 68914 Grimsby, 22/1895 Shipping registers, NELA, Shipping register, 1893-1898
Built: 1875, Register closed: 1919 TNA catalogue, BT 110/794/11
[No port shown], Log books, 1904-1916 TNA catalogue, BT 165
Sunderland, 1/1875, Sail, 355 tons Appropriation Books, RSS
Sunderland, Sail, Brigantine MNL, 1880
Sunderland, Sail, Brigantine MNL, 1890
Grimsby, Sail, Brigantine MNL, 1900
Grimsby, Sail, Brigantine MNL, 1910
Grimsby, Sail, Brigantine MNL, 1915 .


Searching further....

Ship John , official number: 68914. When built: 1875. Registry closed: 1919.
Registry of Shipping and Seamen: Transcripts and Transactions, Series IV, Closed Registries. COLONIAL PORTS. NAME OF SHIP: JOA - JOS. (Described at item level). Ship John , official number: 68914. When built: 1875. Registry closed: 1919.

Held by: The National Archives, Kew - Board of Trade and successors
Date: 1911 - 1920
Reference: BT 110/794/11
Subjects: Merchant seaman

As you can see a bewildering arrays of documents to search but all manually visiting the archives in person.

Kanacki

 

[BillA]

sorting the wheat from the chaff
most interesting fellows

 

[KANACKI]

Hello Bill there is a lot a chaff my friend of unanswered questions.

E F Knight was not much help either......That is the only documents he left after he died.



Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

Here is another 1914 account.

With as always some different details.





Kanacki

 

[Marcos Juliano]

Hello Kanacki and Bill,

Congratulations.

Excellent this discovery of Captain John Pyper, it shows that he really existed, is another small indication that this trip to the port of Santos may actually have happened.

As you said, each newspaper report brings a different version of the story.

I couldn't find much about E.F. Knight either, just his book and the stories that came out about it.


Who brought a few more confirmations was the Portuguese Consul Jaime Batalha Reis, who was at the Nwecastle Consulate between 1882 and 1886 and was aware of the first 2 expeditions and after the last 1889 of E.F.Knight.

The most amazing thing about this story is that it unfolded so greatly in England with this treasure map and the English expeditions and suddenly this 1896 highlight of the letters written by the Englishman Edwrad Young Stammers telling of the Pirate Zulmiro hiding here in southern Brazil, confirming all the history that happened in England.

And pointing to the same island in the middle of the ocean, and telling details about all the pirates.

And based on these letters I was able to find Pirate Zulmiro here in my town.

So the story he told is true.

I think this is one of the most amazing treasure and pirate stories out there today.

Marcos Juliano

 

[BillA]

. . . .
I think this is one of the most amazing treasure and pirate stories out there today.

Marcos Juliano

best of luck Marcos, it is amazing but . . . .

 

[KANACKI]

Hello Marco Juliano

Could you be so kind to elaborate more on what was allegedly found in bottle below.





Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

Hello Marco Juliano

Is there a record anyone else in Curitiba meeting Zulmiro before Edward Stammers Young?



Thanking you in advance.

Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

In regards to the "John "

Here is a document Sunderland Merchant navy books for 1880 just to confirm the owner of the vessel and where berthed in 1880.



While as yet we have not confirmed the voyage have or have not taken place in 1880. But my friend there might be a way?

I recommend the following.....

If you get the chance with reporters from New Castle to research a little more is the guildhall library...

Micro reproduction of original manuscripts in the Guildhall Library, London (Mss. 18,567-71). Compiled from the record of Certificates of Competency issued to masters. This was kept by the Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen from 1851 in accordance with the Mercantile Marine Act, 1850.

Lists the name of each master or mate; the place and year of birth; the date, number and place of issue of the master's certificate (from 1851); the name and number of each ship; the dates of engagement and discharge as master; the destination of each voyage; casualties; and special awards. Records cover the entire British Empire.

No circulation to Family History Centers.

Arranged in alphabetical order by captain's surname within the various time periods and sets of manuscripts.

Library's copy lacks reels 7-12 (1880-1888) of the first series Mss. 18567 but the microfilm company told us that they were incorporated into the next two series #18568-18569.

Guildhall Library: Mss. 18,567-71

Kanacki