Treasure hunting becoming banned in all states???

[ivan salis]

keep the poor working classes poor and working hard to survive ( also tax their "income" heavily as they work for the ruling class and politicans benefit)--- heavily tax all means of making any income ( do you do scrap metal recycling for a few extra bucks -- now its uh you gotta record all sales --and now that the govt has "records" --uh IRS van now ask via those "records" did you declare that "income" buddy ? --- CRHing for silver to earn a bit of extra cash ? -- now metal transactions well be kept "track of" come Jan 1 , 2011--- uh sell more than $600 (in total-- all sales count no matter how small) per year of coins? -- and did you declare that as "income" buddy ?

with the offical govt money "grabbers" in place ans in charge and "impowered" and the govt debit ridden --- any chance that the govt can have to grab "found money" they will try -- because with found money is often hard to settle ownership of it ----so the govt often will often step in and figger out a way to screw the finders of it --- out of a huge chunk or all of it from them using some sort of flim flam reasoning.

and if it works offshore with treasure wrecks --well why not try it on land as well for lost caches ?---govt reasoning at its finest.

 

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[Galactic-Stone]

If treasure hunting or metal detecting is now illegal in Florida, I see no sign of it. Every time I go to the beach (any beach), I see several people metal detecting out in the open. Nobody says anything and nobody tries to stop them.

 

[ivan salis]

well this is a old post

--treasure folks thru a good fight beat back a lot of what the state wanted to do * i was there at 2 meetings slugging away for metal detectorist and salvors rights --- the state wanted to out law -- all metal detecting with 400 yards of many inlets and other "public" places -- which if they had put it in place wound have cut off a lot of public beach areas and such for detecting --

i got that "rule section" repealed when --i "publicly on the record" noted that the impact on tourism would possibly be quite profound -- and that metal detecting tourist might go to more "freindly" places to spend their money -- once that issue was brought up --a "rapid rethink"--was quickly done and they said that that section would be repealed -- (the state asst sec. was at the meeting and upon hearing "possible loss of tourism dollars" ( the sacred cow of florida politicans ) --she hustled over to the state head archie there at the meeting and bent over and whispered in his ear )-- right afterwards --he said that that section would be "removed" -- (she most likely told him something like --you fool that will never fly -- lose tourism money are you crazy? )

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Galactic-stone, you're right: it's not banned on FL beaches, or other such casual hobbyist coin-hunting just about anywhere. You probably just read the title of the post, and the first lines or two of this thread. But if you read through, it's just people worrying that there is nothing to stop the logic (of the mel fisher treasure-salvor type laws) from applying to single coins and such (ie.: where's the magic value or date cutoff? )

I too see lots of md'rs on my beaches here, particularly after storm erosion, all us hardcore folks are down there in the wind and the rain But if I looked deep enough in the minutia of rules governing our central CA coast-line, and if I were to ask enough interpretive questions of enough bureaucrats, I could find that our activity is prohibited (d/t perhaps we find coins older than a certain # of years old, etc...). Yet NOTICE: there is no lack of md'rs hunting, and no one looking over their shoulders at the dates on their coins. Ie.; NO ONE CARES!!

So the moral of the story? Why make waves? To simply "fight" such supposed encroaching rules, will merely bring enlightenment, "no's", etc... to desk-bound bureaucrats. It's the old game of "no one cares, till you ask. So why ask?"

So let's leave the laws that are only applied to gold bars and mother lodes, right where it is: at gold bars and mother loads. If no one cares about loose change on the parks and beaches, then let's keep it at "no one caring about loose change at the parks and beaches". Why would we want it any different? Sheesk, sometimes we can be our own worst enemy. :P

 

[lay385]

IT MAKES ME MAD ABOUT THE FOLKS THAT PUSH THIS BILL FORWARD TO PUT SO MANY PEOPLE OUT OF THERE
BUSINESS OF SELL METAL DETECTORS AND THE OTHER SUPPLIES. ITS JUST STUPID!!!!!!


2-29-2012
[email protected]
LAY385

 

[seeker41]

here is a letter/statement from senator hays(i still say the way the bill is written is to broad and should be corrected.

from Jerry Hitson (FMDAC):

Update from Alan Hayes:

The effects of SB 868 have been misunderstood. This bill simply extends current law to areas in which the State currently does not have jurisdiction. The extension is very small in scope in order to cover areas such as those depict. These are pictures of land owned by Lake County Water Authority, a political subdivision/special taxing district created by the legislature within my district. As current law is written, when this type of damage is done to the property, law enforcement’s hands are tied and they cannot take action to enforce preservation of the land or the artifacts recovered. As you can see from the pictures, the bill is addressing unauthorized excavation and exploration on these types of lands.

This bill does not impact private lands, the ability of individuals to use a metal detector on our beaches, or any of the activities these hobby enthusiasts legally enjoy now.

My office has been in contact with staff from detectingrights.com. and clarified what the bill actually addresses. Hopefully, if you belong to that organization, you will be receiving an email soon. I would also encourage you to visit the updated post on their website at detectingrights.com and look at the tab which states items requiring immediate attention.

I understand where some of the confusion on this bill may have originated. The original language of the bill had a drafting error that was caught and corrected during the first committee stop. The bill originally read “any lands” when it should have read “any state owned lands”, so it was never my intent to prohibit anyone from doing anything on their own land. It was never my intention to create overly burdensome regulations, and I do believe in keeping government small, but when I see in my own district where our shorelines are being washed away by someone with a “borrowed” garden hose, or holes are being dug deep enough for someone to stand in, and all this damage must be repaired, I need to take action.

I do appreciate the posts and your letting me know this concern was out there and that word was spreading regarding the potential impact of this bill. Hopefully, I have been able to address your concerns and create a better understanding of what this legislation is all about.


Staff Analysis for SB 868
[www.flsenate.gov]
/Fc8PqfZE=PL=7glAi5D5WcObC2RU74=%7C11/Public/Bills/
0800-0899/0868/Analysis/2012s0868.pre.bta.PDF
News updates from Task Force For Metal Detecting Rights Foundation

 

[whiskeyjack]

Clarification please.

So, I'm planning a trip to Cocoa Beach area next January/February. 'Seems like it's ok for me to be on that beach with a detector. But, it also seems like it would NOT be ok for me to be under the pier with a detector since it's a historical landmark?

Thank you.

 

[DigHunter]

I went to site. Still trying to figure out how it affects land MD's.

The point is, that it affects us alllll, it takes away another right, and if you keep letting them they will soon take away your land right as well, seriously bro, think before you speak!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Dig-hunter, What you are saying is true ... ONLY if you make a big stink and thus "beg them for clarification". So let's not do, or encourage that .

 

[DigHunter]

Dig-hunter, What you are saying is true ... ONLY if you make a big stink and thus "beg them for clarification". So let's not do, or encourage that .

Tom, I'm sorry you are obviously living in fear of your own government and are the sit back and let them do as they will. If you read the original draft that says ANY LAND'S, YES that includes your local park as well as your own backyard and if we all just sit back and not "make a big stink" about it, it would have "accidentally " been the end of our great hobby. It's about demanding not begging Tom. Any state land's is WAY different than any land's and yes that needed to be clarified.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

dig-hunter, whether you call it "demand" or "beg", no neither is a good idea. Asking for clarifications (ie.: can I detect? or I demand that I can detect" etc...) is NOT a good idea.

Dig-hunter, I don't know how long you've been at this hobby, but let me tell you first-hand, from 35+ yrs in this, and as past president of a club, and seeing many sites and detecting many states, I've seen the whole evolution of off-limits places. And no, it's not like you think of md'rs sitting around and doing nothing, while rules magically appear. You would be shocked to know and realize how many of these off-limits places ONLY became so, BECAUSE of people waltzing in to desk-bound bureaucrats asking and/or demanding sanctions.

I'll just give you one small example, and ..... please ...... don't get "lost in the example", but see it as an indication of the over-all psychology of how this works: Ok, here goes: In my town, back when I first got into this hobby in the mid to late 1970s, the parks here were just fair game. It's simply where my mentors went, and why would I question that? None of us ever had a problem, nor had any reason to think there should be one. Afterall we would have reasoned "it's a public park". Oh sure, we had the "presence of mind" not to digging holes in front of busy-bodies, and so forth. And so long as we weren't being a nuisance, it was ok.

The one day, in the early 1980s, at one of our club meetings, a visitor was in the audience. As the show-&-tell portion of the meeting progressed, a fellow held up an old silver coin, and said "... found in Central park". The newbie visitor's hand went up. He asked "I thought detecting was off-limits in the parks here?". Several of us turned around, looked at him, and asked "since when? who told you this?" etc... Turns out he'd just moved to our town, and taken it upon himself to go down to city hall, ... AND ASK. Apparently he'd found someone there to tell him "no".

As you can suspect, this caused confusion in the room of attendees that night. Because naturally some folks were skittish, thinking "oh no, the parks are off-limits now". While others were like "that's nonsense, no one cares, you must've gotten some desk-bound bureaucrat who conjured up images of geeks with shovels". So certain people simply dismissed what the newbie said, and had no intention of stopping detecting the parks (since obviously no one cared), while others (the more skittish "let's fight it" types) insisted that we need to go down to "get this clarified" and "demand our rights", etc...

Nothing ever became of it, and the matter was dropped. But I can tell you this: that was about 30 yrs. ago, and to this day, you can still go to our city's parks, and detect (so long as you're not being a nuisance sticking out or making a mess), and no one cares.

So what does that tel you dig-hunter? Is making a stink, asking question, seeking clarifications, a GOOD thing? Or merely make you/us a bullseye "pressing issue" that needs their princely say-so? (of which, we know what the easy answer is going to be).

Sure, if something is truly already off-limits, sure, go ahead and form solidarities and fight that. But NO, it is NOT a good idea to go pre-empting things, asking "can I?" and so forth. Look up the rules for yourself (and if it doesn't expressly say "no metal detecting", then presto, it must not be prohibited). And "more visibility" is the LAST thing we need. Because no matter how you slice it dig-hunter, we're in an odd hobby, that draws connotations. And if you keep going up the chain-of-command, you will just find more and more "no's", where ....... quite frankly ..... perhaps no one cared or would have notice .... UNTIL you asked.

 

[doubloonhunter]

who do these elected officials think they are? or state appointed officers? this is disgusting

 

[0121stockpicker]

dig-hunter, whether you call it "demand" or "beg", no neither is a good idea. Asking for clarifications (ie.: can I detect? or I demand that I can detect" etc...) is NOT a good idea.

Dig-hunter, I don't know how long you've been at this hobby, but let me tell you first-hand, from 35+ yrs in this, and as past president of a club, and seeing many sites and detecting many states, I've seen the whole evolution of off-limits places. And no, it's not like you think of md'rs sitting around and doing nothing, while rules magically appear. You would be shocked to know and realize how many of these off-limits places ONLY became so, BECAUSE of people waltzing in to desk-bound bureaucrats asking and/or demanding sanctions.

I'll just give you one small example, and ..... please ...... don't get "lost in the example", but see it as an indication of the over-all psychology of how this works: Ok, here goes: In my town, back when I first got into this hobby in the mid to late 1970s, the parks here were just fair game. It's simply where my mentors went, and why would I question that? None of us ever had a problem, nor had any reason to think there should be one. Afterall we would have reasoned "it's a public park". Oh sure, we had the "presence of mind" not to digging holes in front of busy-bodies, and so forth. And so long as we weren't being a nuisance, it was ok.

The one day, in the early 1980s, at one of our club meetings, a visitor was in the audience. As the show-&-tell portion of the meeting progressed, a fellow held up an old silver coin, and said "... found in Central park". The newbie visitor's hand went up. He asked "I thought detecting was off-limits in the parks here?". Several of us turned around, looked at him, and asked "since when? who told you this?" etc... Turns out he'd just moved to our town, and taken it upon himself to go down to city hall, ... AND ASK. Apparently he'd found someone there to tell him "no".

As you can suspect, this caused confusion in the room of attendees that night. Because naturally some folks were skittish, thinking "oh no, the parks are off-limits now". While others were like "that's nonsense, no one cares, you must've gotten some desk-bound bureaucrat who conjured up images of geeks with shovels". So certain people simply dismissed what the newbie said, and had no intention of stopping detecting the parks (since obviously no one cared), while others (the more skittish "let's fight it" types) insisted that we need to go down to "get this clarified" and "demand our rights", etc...

Nothing ever became of it, and the matter was dropped. But I can tell you this: that was about 30 yrs. ago, and to this day, you can still go to our city's parks, and detect (so long as you're not being a nuisance sticking out or making a mess), and no one cares.

So what does that tel you dig-hunter? Is making a stink, asking question, seeking clarifications, a GOOD thing? Or merely make you/us a bullseye "pressing issue" that needs their princely say-so? (of which, we know what the easy answer is going to be).

Sure, if something is truly already off-limits, sure, go ahead and form solidarities and fight that. But NO, it is NOT a good idea to go pre-empting things, asking "can I?" and so forth. Look up the rules for yourself (and if it doesn't expressly say "no metal detecting", then presto, it must not be prohibited). And "more visibility" is the LAST thing we need. Because no matter how you slice it dig-hunter, we're in an odd hobby, that draws connotations. And if you keep going up the chain-of-command, you will just find more and more "no's", where ....... quite frankly ..... perhaps no one cared or would have notice .... UNTIL you asked.

Completely agree. Always best to ask for forgiveness instead of permission. The canned response of any bureaucrat is "no". When I'm hunting in a questionable place and an official hassles me i always use the "I lost my wedding band here the other day and am looking for it" excuse. Worst I ever get is a little talking to. That's it. Best of luck.

 

[nickcoin]

The legal issue:

http://lawreview.wustl.edu/inprint/86/1/Curfman.pdf

This PDF is also helpful.

SM

 

[Tazobx]

Darren, just wondering how far off the beach ,in the ocean, at NC or Federal parks does the no metal detectors law cover?

 

[tcscivic12]

Done 5/7/13 1:28 PM

 

[twoauers]

Done

 

[chazman]

dig-hunter, whether you call it "demand" or "beg", no neither is a good idea. Asking for clarifications (ie.: can I detect? or I demand that I can detect" etc...) is NOT a good idea.

Dig-hunter, I don't know how long you've been at this hobby, but let me tell you first-hand, from 35+ yrs in this, and as past president of a club, and seeing many sites and detecting many states, I've seen the whole evolution of off-limits places. And no, it's not like you think of md'rs sitting around and doing nothing, while rules magically appear. You would be shocked to know and realize how many of these off-limits places ONLY became so, BECAUSE of people waltzing in to desk-bound bureaucrats asking and/or demanding sanctions.

I'll just give you one small example, and ..... please ...... don't get "lost in the example", but see it as an indication of the over-all psychology of how this works: Ok, here goes: In my town, back when I first got into this hobby in the mid to late 1970s, the parks here were just fair game. It's simply where my mentors went, and why would I question that? None of us ever had a problem, nor had any reason to think there should be one. Afterall we would have reasoned "it's a public park". Oh sure, we had the "presence of mind" not to digging holes in front of busy-bodies, and so forth. And so long as we weren't being a nuisance, it was ok.

The one day, in the early 1980s, at one of our club meetings, a visitor was in the audience. As the show-&-tell portion of the meeting progressed, a fellow held up an old silver coin, and said "... found in Central park". The newbie visitor's hand went up. He asked "I thought detecting was off-limits in the parks here?". Several of us turned around, looked at him, and asked "since when? who told you this?" etc... Turns out he'd just moved to our town, and taken it upon himself to go down to city hall, ... AND ASK. Apparently he'd found someone there to tell him "no".

As you can suspect, this caused confusion in the room of attendees that night. Because naturally some folks were skittish, thinking "oh no, the parks are off-limits now". While others were like "that's nonsense, no one cares, you must've gotten some desk-bound bureaucrat who conjured up images of geeks with shovels". So certain people simply dismissed what the newbie said, and had no intention of stopping detecting the parks (since obviously no one cared), while others (the more skittish "let's fight it" types) insisted that we need to go down to "get this clarified" and "demand our rights", etc...

Nothing ever became of it, and the matter was dropped. But I can tell you this: that was about 30 yrs. ago, and to this day, you can still go to our city's parks, and detect (so long as you're not being a nuisance sticking out or making a mess), and no one cares.

So what does that tel you dig-hunter? Is making a stink, asking question, seeking clarifications, a GOOD thing? Or merely make you/us a bullseye "pressing issue" that needs their princely say-so? (of which, we know what the easy answer is going to be).

Sure, if something is truly already off-limits, sure, go ahead and form solidarities and fight that. But NO, it is NOT a good idea to go pre-empting things, asking "can I?" and so forth. Look up the rules for yourself (and if it doesn't expressly say "no metal detecting", then presto, it must not be prohibited). And "more visibility" is the LAST thing we need. Because no matter how you slice it dig-hunter, we're in an odd hobby, that draws connotations. And if you keep going up the chain-of-command, you will just find more and more "no's", where ....... quite frankly ..... perhaps no one cared or would have notice .... UNTIL you asked.

just be careful and don't be an ass and do as you wish. always better to ask forgiveness after the fact (and you've found and stashed the goods) than beg for permission.
the worst you'd get would be a cop saying, "don't do that any more bucko!"

just my 2 cents.

 

[sailoffwithme]

MD is not treasure hunting

 

[kayakpat]

This bill does not impact private lands, the ability of individuals to use a metal detector on our beaches, or any of the activities these hobby enthusiasts legally enjoy now