✅ SOLVED Trench Art, but what is it?

[vhs07]

I have what I first thought was a letter opener marked Verdun with a shell casing date of 1916.
But after looking at it, the blade part is rather flimsy and easily bent. I don't think it would of
survived long as a letter opener.
Any thoughts?











Thanks,
Charles

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Unicorn ~

Thanks for the kind words and sharing the scrimshaw picture. It amazes me, especially after reading articles regarding how terrible the Battle of Verdun was, that the soldiers had a minute of spare time to create their memorable works of art. But I suppose there is a lot more to know about what went on there than we may ever realize.

Another thing I discovered about letter openers in particular, and why so many were made, is because they were symbolic of the battle itself, and in many instances, sad reminders of letters never sent or received. The openers were like a letter home, especially those that had the soldier's name etched on it.

SBB

 

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PS ~

It might require a real expert to answer this, but one question I have is how to distinguish the difference between a true piece of trench art made on the battlefield versus one made after the war by a private citizen? I do know that most, if not all of it, was made from actual battlefield surplus, like spent shell casings, etc; but not whether it was made during the war or afterwards. I suspect one way to tell would be if it has a soldier's name on it or other specifics. I imagine those are the types that are most sought after by collectors.

Here's a link to an interesting read about trench art in general and "Button Hooks" in particular. It will give you some insight as to what I was saying about items made during the war vs those made later, some of which were made well into the 1920s and 30s. The article also mentions examples of trench art inscribed with names and other specifics, plus touches on how-when-where the soldiers had time to create such items. Check it out.

Link: http://www.thebuttonhooksociety.com/trenchart.html

SBB

 

[Unicorn]

My apologies SBB, I got your initials wrong in my last post When I watch the antigue programmes on T.V. The experts always know if an object is Trench art or Scrimshaw. I think it is as you say, either specifics, or the type of material that is used. Many thanks for an interesting link.

Unicorn

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Unicorn ~

No problemo regarding the initials. It's nothing a little editing can't fix.

But mainly I'm replying again to mention I am still researching several aspects of this topic, which are ...

1. The ability to identify trench art that was actually made by a soldier in the trenches vs the later souvenirs.

2. To try and find a letter opener/knife exactly like the one in question. So far I have not been able to find one that is an exact match, but I have seen at least 100 different examples of other types, some of which match one another but not the one in question.

3. To try and find an explanation regarding the flimsy aspect of the one in question.


Although there was no explanation regarding how the one pictured below got bent, it does illustrate that some of them were quite flimsy. This particular one is inscribed with ... "Souvenir Du Front 1918" which is obviously a French souvenir. I'm not certain, but I suspect the words "Du Front" mean that whatever it was made from, likely a shell casing, was probably found on the "Front Line" of a battle zone.


SBB

This particular letter opener is not from Verdun - and shown merely as an example regarding its apparent flimsiness. By the way, is "flimsiness" a real word? Lol

 

[Unicorn]

SBB. yes I do know that flimsiness is a real word.. we use the word over here too.. I am not trying to detract from the thread, and your obvious research on this subject. I can only add that there seems to be a link between what the object is made from. ie: If it is made from an old shell casing or a whale tooth, or whatever, I am just presuming, probably quite wrongly, it is made as trench art or scrimshaw. Of course I haven't done the research as you have. But it is an interesting subject none the less. Of course the age of the shell casing and/or whale tooth can help in dating it.

Unicorn

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

That bullet looks to be .303 British, can you get some measurements of the slug and the shell? I know Remington made Enfield pattern rifles for WW1 (P-17 Enfield Rifle) but I didn't know they made .303 ammo for the war. The crown might be from a German match safe.

The bullet guys should be able to tell us more about this cartrige. Here are a few links on .303 Remington is listed as RA or REM-UMC but Im not a bullet guy. Headstamps of the .303 British Calibre Service Ammunition Round .303 Headstamp Cartridge Identification





Union Metallic Cartridge (UMC) produced cartridges and was combined with Remington Arms Company in 1912 (RA). The headstamp changed from UMC to REM-UMC. I dont know when REMINGTON was used. Where you able to positively ID the headstamp as 1916? Like I said, Im not a bullet person.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The crown on the cartridge is eerily familiar.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

The crown on the cartridge is eerily familiar.

I first thought the crown may have been from a German match safe, but it's definitely not the same as the German crown, so possibly French or more likely English, although hopefully one of our British members might be able to id it. I can't find a match to that headstamp anywhere, and I have no idea what "ART D" means off hand, but the numbers SHOULD mean manufactured in January 1916. Of course I'm still working on my assumption that it's a .303 round, but I can't think of what else it could be, since the Americans were using 30-06 and the cartridges look very different.

German match safe crown:

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I'm curious about the crown myself ... I'm guessing British. Are Four Leaf Clovers strictly Irish or ... ?

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Speaking of the Irish, it appears they were involved in the Battle of the Somme River, but I cannot find a reference to them being at Verdun. The map below will help put things in perspective.

Irish Link:

Department of Taoiseach - Irish Soldiers in the Battle of the Somme Map of World War I Battlefields ... Including Somme ~ Verdun ~ Ypres. Left Click to enlarge.

[TD="width: 100%"]

[/TD]

 

[Unicorn]

The four leaf clover usually means Irish, but then Northern Ireland is British. Southern Ireland is not, but the four leaf clover is still used as an emblem of all of Ireland.
I must just add something to the thread. Our family made a visit to the war graves cemetary and trenches in Ypres and the Somme, many years ago The museums hold so many objects of interest, including trench art, it was a sad place to visit but none the less very interesting.

Unicorn

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

What's confusing me now (which isn't hard to do these days) is that I cannot find a solid connection to the British being at Verdun. However, the British were definitely involved in the Battle of Somme along with the Irish. If it is a British Crown on the bullet, then where's the connection to the British being at Verdun?

In answer to my own question, I think it would help if we were able to determine whether the crown is British - French - or German?

SBB

British Links:

HSC Online - World War I: an overview 1914-1918

The Battle of the Somme

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I'm beginning to think it might be a German Crown. Especially if it has a Cross on top of it. I'm just not sure. What do y'all think?

SBB

German Crown Trench Art Ring Link: Flying Tiger Antiques Online Store: SOLD!!! WWI German Trench Art Ring Featuring Imperial Crown

 

[NOLA_Ken]

In WW1 the U.S. 88th Infantry Division, Artillery Regiment used a four leaf clover as their insignia, but there's no mention of them at Verdun that I can find. EDIT: SODABOTTLEBOB I think has it on the crown, either German or Prussian, just not off of a match safe as I thought at first.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The numbers should mean 1916 but I cannot find a cartridge anywhere that says REMINGTON let alone ART D. Im beginning to wonder if REMINGTON and ART D. was added by the artist along with the crown. We need a bullet person could explain this in a miliosecond. Calling all bullet people. (help icon)

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Here's a typical British Crown. About 99% of them have the "Fleur de Lis" on them, which is that flower looking symbol. But it too has a cross on top.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

And here's a typical French Crown with a "Fleur de Lis" on top. At this point I think its necessary for vhs07 to tell us which of the crowns his resembles the most. Thanks.

SBB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

On the old TN forum I could post quickly and easily. I could zip from one to the next and knock them out. Its frustrating now for me when it takes 5 trimes longer to post. I havent even read most of them. I dont even bother posting icons and I cringe every time I have to go to "advanced" and "manage my attachments" and "upload" before I can post a simple image. Way too many steps and too many unnecessary choices for me. I just cant get used to it. Sorry I just dont have that much free time.


That being said, and remember Im not a bullet guy, but I found this on how to identify WW1 cartridges. How to Identify Shell Cartridges From WWI | eHow.co.uk It says:

The copper cylinders which holds the projectiles produced during this era all have the similarity of not having an extraction groove. A WWI casing will have a case rim, which is essentially the wider base of the cartridge, but no indention above it, which is an extraction groove.

Read more: How to Identify Shell Cartridges From WWI | eHow.co.uk How to Identify Shell Cartridges From WWI | eHow.co.uk


So it is definitely a WWI or earlier cartridge (without extraction groove) but I cant find the headstamp.​

 

[NOLA_Ken]

BigCy, I have it! French 8mm, made by Remington under contract during the first world war. I'm still not sure if that particular one is for the Lebel, or Berthier rifle, I will do a bit more research when I get home tonight.

 

[drbecker]

Looks like a 8MM Lebel as in French shell. Remington made lot of ammo for the French and gusn as well.

8mm Lebel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia