trespassing

[EggHunters]

I have a couple of questions for the group. 1) If you go to hunt at a school (i.e. elementary,middle, high), and the gates are not locked with no signs about "no trespassing" can you still hunt there w/o permission? The schools around here are pretty much locked up on the weekends, but ive found a couple of them open and feel like im trespassing. I dont want m/ders to get a bad rep. about trespassing plus dont really feel like getting arrested. 2) I have found an old movie theater that looks like its been closed for decades. There are no "no trespassing" signs there except for where the snack bar still stands(there is a fence surrounding it also). I would like to think that there could be some great finds there but no sure who owns the land.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

How can you trespass at a public school? If others go there after hours to jog the track, fly a kite, etc.... then why is detecting any different? If someone has an issue, they're welcome to tell you. No doubt, someone will come on this thread telling you to ask even at public schools (and parks, etc...), but the funny thing, you may get a "no", when in fact, no one cares! I've seen that happen. A newbie in my town took it upon himself to ask at city hall if he could detect at our central park. Some bureaucrat told him "no". So when he attended our club, and saw some guys displaying stuff in the find-of-the-month display, that had "come from central park", he raises his hand and says "I thought central park was off-limits?" We all look at him and say "since when? who told you that?" We'd detected it for years up till then, in full view of anyone and everyone, and no one (even gardeners, etc...) ever said "boo" to us! It's still wide open for detecting to this day. So the moral of that story is: sometimes no one cares till you ask!

As for the drive-in, now you're talking possible private property (unless it's been taken over by eminent domain or something). But I would still no hesitate to hit that, especially if it's not fenced or posted. But that's just me

 

[SwampHunter]

1) In my town there is no MDing on the schools property even though it is a public school.

2) That drive-in would be private ground around here.

 

[IndianaSmith]

All property is owned by someone. I'd always find out who owns it, and ask permission, unless I'm certain it's publicly owned. Call the school during business hours for permission, offer to speak with someone in person & make sure they're aware you won't destroy the grass, nor leave any unfilled holes.

Something to think about......do you have NO TRESSPASSING signs posted in your yard? No? So anyone should be able to tresspass on your property? I had a recent run-in with a jerkwad neighbor who learned what the meaning of private property is.

Just my opinion, but if it isn't yours, publicly owned, or you haven't gained permission from the actual landowner.......stay off the property. You'll be a tresspasser, which will benefit no one, nor the reputation of any sport or hobby.

Smitty

 

[teverly]

go to the county recorder and see who owns it...there are a lot of abondones drive ins and i have heard from guys that hunt them they are good places to hunt.....

 

[RON (PA)]

Two different places and two different ways to get permission (at least in my mind).

1). You should always ask permission for a school, even though it is a public institution.
Going there without permission is one good way to give our hobby a black eye and to
look bad in the eyes of the public. Call the school and ask permission from the
superintendant or building principal. Write down their name and carry it with you, that
way if the someone asks, you can say "Yes, I have permission from Mr. Carson the
building principal".
2). Drive In Theatres can be very good places to hunt. Depending on the age of the Drive
in (some are making a come back) you can find silver coins and clad. Every property is
registered with the county recorder of deeds (or some other similar sounding named
office). You should just be able to take the street address of the drive in to the
recorder of deeds office and they can look up who owns the property for you. Hope it
helps.

 

[oldplacesnofinds]

I wonder if all those people playing in the playground, playing basketball, using the track and playing football asked permission. I say if other people are using the school, so can we. I have detected plenty of schools and nobody ever bothered me. I always made sure other people were using the school too. If nobody else uses the school after hours, neither do I. I agree with some of the posts, asking sometimes just makes things worse. About the drive-in, I would not go there without permission but thats me.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hey oldplacesnofinds, you say: "I have detected plenty of schools and nobody ever bothered me." I bet that if you took those very same schools where you've never been bothered, and started asking, you'd probably get a few "no's" from a place like the district office, across town. Yet you can hunt till you're blue in the face and no one will say a thing. It was the same thing in our town's central park where no one had ever been bothered. It never occured to us you needed to "ask" to detect a public park or school. So I'm with you on this one: why start asking now? Just to risk a "no"?

Swamp Hunter, you say: "In my town there is no MDing on the schools property even though it is a public school" How did that information enter into the detecting community? I mean, did someone go ask, and get a "no"?

When I first got into detecting in the 1970s, my detecting buddy told me that at a nearby town, all the schools were "off-limits." Years later, I hunted them anyways, and was never bothered. One day I bumped into my old detecting buddy, and asked him where he got his earlier information. He said that he had been detecting at a school there, and got booted by a janitor. When he asked "why?", the janitor told him it wasn't allowed at the schools. My friend asked him "all schools?" and the guy said "yup". My friend just acceptted that as fact, when it was probably just an isolated incident, or a janitor having a bad day, etc.... But my friend just started passing around that information, and before long, it's just accepted as fact in the md'ing community. That's why, when I hear someone say "you can't detect such & such parks or schools" I sometimes wonder if it's just similar situations to the one I cite. I'm sure that there may be, in some cities, actual rules, don't get me wrong. But there are others where it just gets started by someone asking and getting a "no", from a busy secretary at a desk who's image was geeks with shovels.

 

[SC_hunter]

My opinion is the school would be open for detection. In our area, certain portions are fenced in and locked in the afternoons and weekends....This is an "invitation" to STAY OUT...and I do. The open areas I hunt and never had any problems...the local police drop in on occasion and just wanted to chat....
The Drive In is another story...It is private property and you best ask permission on that one...HH and GL

 

[greywolf]

When it comes to schools do be sure that classes are not in session and the school is closed for the day. If other activities are going on like ball games with just normal people then by all means use the open areas..With the present situation at schools around the country having a a sharp digging tool may be viewed as a weapon by some person who will over react to what he/she are seeing. Kids have been expelled for having a plastic knife from a family picnic in there car.."BIG BROTHER" is always watching.

If the drive-in is posted stay off. Try to get permission! If not posted still try to get permission!

 

[SwampHunter]

Swamp Hunter, you say: "In my town there is no MDing on the schools property even though it is a public school" How did that information enter into the detecting community? I mean, did someone go ask, and get a "no"?

My brother in law is the Chief of Police in town. I was with him one day back before I got into MDing. We got a call from the superintendent that someone was MDing at the school and he had been asked to leave and wouldn't. Like others the guy thought since it was a public school that he could and should be able to MD there. He wasn't very friendly about the whole ordeal and it lead to a bit of a stink. Long story short the school board then took a vote on it and now there is no MDing on school property. The superintendent told us that he told the guy he should have asked for permission first and then everything would have been fine. Now no one can MD the school property because someone didn't have the desency to ask before doing something.
So no, it wasn't about someone asking and getting a no.... it was about someone doing something that they should have asked permission for in the first place.
The thing is it might be public property, but that doesn't mean that we can use it. My brother in law's car is public property as well but that doesn't mean I can drive it.

Ya'll do what you want to do, but I always ask permission in person before MDing on any ground that doesn't belong solely to me.

 

[stefen]

I have a couple of questions for the group. 1) If you go to hunt at a school (i.e. elementary,middle, high), and the gates are not locked with no signs about "no trespassing" can you still hunt there w/o permission? The schools around here are pretty much locked up on the weekends, but ive found a couple of them open and feel like im trespassing. I dont want m/ders to get a bad rep. about trespassing plus dont really feel like getting arrested. 2) I have found an old movie theater that looks like its been closed for decades. There are no "no trespassing" signs there except for where the snack bar still stands(there is a fence surrounding it also). I would like to think that there could be some great finds there but no sure who owns the land.

Always ask yourself, 'What if someone barged into your home and started rooting around and then stated there were no "No Trespassing" signs?'

Does that make it right? No.

Simply find oujt who owns the property then ask for permission to MD...if refused, tghen thats the end of it.

 

[LadyDigger]

I did ask the principal at my son's middle school and my other son's elementary school if I would be able to metal detect the property. I did tell them both that it is public land, but out of respect, I just wanted to ask. I received very happy "Of Course You May!" I DO NOT DETECT DURING SCHOOL HOURS!

I did however, have restrictions (at the middle school)....they asked me if I would not detect on the ball fields. There concern was a safety issue, which I can understand. Making holes and covering them up...may cause a depression in the ground, which in turn may cause a student to trip during a game with possible injury. So, I agreed to that. I told them I wouldn't detect around the landscaped areas around the building and the middle school principal told me..."Oh, that's ok....go for it." (I was like OMG!!! REALLY?)..and I have too!!!

Those are the only two schools I have done so far. I have a high school up the road that I plan to detect soon.

And I was one of those people who called the CITY OFFICE to ask about my cities metal detecting laws. I was told that there are NO LAWS against metal detecting in my city, all city owned/public property was open for detecting, just respect the land and cover your holes. That includes doing the sidewalks, even the mediums in the road (which they recommend I don't do, as the cops may stop me for safety issues!)

I had one problem at a CITY PARK/COMMUNITY PARK (which is in my own neighborhood, I can see the park right now out my window...that's how close it is!! I'm 3 houses from the park!)...so I called both my city and another cities person in charge of all the parks and both have given their blessings. I told them that I do genealogy of the area and am currently writing a book on the people of Hampton Roads up to 31 December 1999. That I metal detect in hopes to finding history of the people that worked and lived on these lands. Both of these individuals thanked me for asking and wished me luck. They asked me to let them know if I find anything interesting. I told them I would, which I have called them back several times on finds. I am trying to find one location of a poor house, which is now a city park. Infact, the man in charge of another cities parks even told me of all the wonderful finds others find at one of his parks. And they both have told me that if I should run into any problems, to please tell the individual to call them! Infact, the lady incharge I spoke with for my cities parks...even told her grounds folks that if they see a lady metal detecting (me )...that it was ok!

So, it's that MURPHY'S LAW thing, "Dang if you do and dang if you don't". I think also, it's how you approach the individual. I don't know if my writing a book had anything to do with it (which I am writing...that is very true!)....but I relate all my metal detecting to genealogy, because that is why I metal detect!!! And I have conteplated....going back to school for archealogy classes, not so much the degree....but just to take courses to get a better understanding of the field.

Also, I personnally don't care to hold on to items that may be related to these particular schools, i.e., like the horseshoe I found, etc...so I am making shadow boxes for each school and putting in the items and also writing a paper on the items, where and when they were found....and if any history pertains to any of these items. So far, not really much on the history part, but some interesting items ...and I am even including a bit of trash ... yes....to teach the kids why they shouldn't be litter bugs!

As for that old drive in...you can go to the court house and see if they can look up who owns the land now. Also, try going to your local library and see if your newspaper is on reels. You may even want to search the newspaper on the movie theater...it's a tedious and time consuming process, but you may also find other wonderful history tidbits that may open new avenues to detect!!!

Good luck to you...and as I said, it's that Murphy's Law thing....Dang if we askand dang if we don't!!!

Happy Hunting,
Annmarie

 

[seinohio]

By all means, try to get permission--even from a public school. However, don't ever call when you can appear in person to request permission. It is very easy to "blow-off" someone on the phone, but it can be another matter to tell someone "no" when face-to-face.

 

[diggummup]

Swamp Hunter, you say: "In my town there is no MDing on the schools property even though it is a public school" How did that information enter into the detecting community? I mean, did someone go ask, and get a "no"?

My brother in law is the Chief of Police in town. I was with him one day back before I got into MDing. We got a call from the superintendent that someone was MDing at the school and he had been asked to leave and wouldn't. Like others the guy thought since it was a public school that he could and should be able to MD there. He wasn't very friendly about the whole ordeal and it lead to a bit of a stink. Long story short the school board then took a vote on it and now there is no MDing on school property. The superintendent told us that he told the guy he should have asked for permission first and then everything would have been fine. Now no one can MD the school property because someone didn't have the desency to ask before doing something. This link may help- http://publicrecords.netronline.com/
So no, it wasn't about someone asking and getting a no.... it was about someone doing something that they should have asked permission for in the first place.
The thing is it might be public property, but that doesn't mean that we can use it. My brother in law's car is public property as well but that doesn't mean I can drive it.

Ya'll do what you want to do, but I always ask permission in person before MDing on any ground that doesn't belong solely to me.

Thanks for the sober response Swamphunter. Somepeople have been detecting so long they forget there are actually laws against trespassing on property that isn't owned by "you". Schools in my area are all posted "no trespassing" and surrounded by fences with locked gates,welcome to the new U.S. of A.! . As for the drive-inn, you should be able to check the county tax assessors website or office for information regarding who owns that particular piece of land. This link may help-http://publicrecords.netronline.com/

 

[re-tek]

readers digest version...

hunt schools, yes.
hunt "private property" without permission, maybe. (example, empty lot with no fence)
hunt abandoned private property without permission, very likely. (once again, no fence)

here's some reasoning nobody has touched...

i own some land and there's possibilities that someone could get hurt (read as lawsuit) if they trip, fall, etc. i really dont care if people go on it as long as they dont dump crap or anything like that. you come along and have an accident on my land. you were trespassing. you were'nt supposed to be there. i didnt give you permission to be there.

now the flip side. i give you permission to go on my unused land that im gonna bulldoze, let overgrow, or otherwise lay waste to. you get hurt. i gave you permission to be on the land. i allowed you to be on my "dangerous" land. now you will sue me since i knowlingly allowed you to put yourself in danger.

in this day an age of nonchalant lawsuits, you cant blame folks for not wanting to give permission. in reality they may not care if youre on there but by giving you permission, they have entered in a verbal agreement with you. sure, some may argue that they bring a hold harmless agreement with them. did you hear about the lady that sued because she tripped on the painted line on the street? did you hear about the guy that sued mcdonalds because he got burned with hot coffee? the point is a lawyer will find a loop in that hold harmless agreement and screw the guy that was nice enough to let the MD'er on his land.

if the land is vacant, theres no fence, theres no sign. i'll take my chance. i'd rather be asked to leave than not take a chance and watch a bulldozer scrape it away.

 

[teverly]

well in either circumstance you will get sued....even if your land is not posted and you dont give someone permissin to be on it and the get hurt they could sue you for not marking it...
You think not? 20 yrs ago when my friends dad put in a farm pond to fish and swim in he put up an 8' fence and posted it every 10' along the outside.
His home owners insurance went way up..the reason:they said that even though the fence was up and posted if someone came in and drowned or got hurt, even if they were trespassing they or there family could sue him.....when he contacted his attorney to check this out he was told that is correct.
Do you believe that even having it fenced and posted they could still say it was his responsibility to look out for anyone on his property,even if they were breaking the law!!!!
That is a bunch of crap..and that was 20 yrs ago.....the main reason for not trepassing as has been said in several threads on here in the last few months is respect for the person who owns the property and if you get caught it makes it bad for all of us...
if it is not yours then you should not be on it without permission.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I know this post was primarily about the abandoned drive-in, but the public schools and parks issue has been the bigger discussion. Anytime this comes up (whether or not to ask for public schools and parks), invariably, someone will post about the success they've had in their town, in asking. As if, this is proof positive that .... ergo, we SHOULD all ask for permission at such places ("afterall, it worked for me most times").

Here's my reply to that: The fact that you got permission, to me only shows that the person giving you that permission, simply doesn't know all that is at stake. In other words, I can simply go to that same person, and get your permission revoked just as quickly. All I have to do is bring up any of a number of points:

1) You know, he says he's going to cover his holes, but the grass can still die. Or he may not be thorough about it to begin with.

2) You are merely opening up a pandoras box where, now everyone will think they can detect there. We simply can't have that!

3) How can you let this one person enrich himself at the city's expense, and other's misfortune? Like, what if he finds something extremely valuable? CERTAINLY that is city property, not his!

4) What if your city runs afoul of ARPA? Oh no! You may get sued by an archaeologist or indian!

5) What if that md'r tangles in his headphone chord, trips, falls and sues the city? You've opened yourself up to a lawsuit by your "yes"

The list goes on. The reasons given for the "no's" you sometimes get, no doubt come from this list, or some variation of them. And the times you do get "permission", the granting person has obviously not thought it through well enough. The only reason I bring this up, is that the sometimes successes of permission asking do not fully justify the rationale that, "therefore, we can and must always ask". I am referring to innocous non-historic monuments, like run-of-the-mill regular parks and schools. Places where, anyone can go recreate (play ball, skip stones, fly a kite, jog the track, etc....). The minute we think something is inherently wrong with us, or our hobby, that we had to "ask", is the minute we've already lost the battle.