Using a sluice for flat nuggets

[63bkpkr]

I've been working a site in the Sierras here in California, its just a bank side along a river with lots of boulders and is shown in the following picture.


The first time there I'd just barely prepared the site for prospecting before I had to leave. I would collect a bucket of material, presort the heavies and fines, lay each out on the "beach" and checked them with a Whites GMT and when the machine beeped I panned that pile. Here is what I got the first time I was there, the GMT never missed or was wrong as I checked some no beep piles. Notice the likely 45 caliber slug and the smaller maybe 25 caliber slug along with the rocks which are all magnetic rocks. If lead of this size has settled here then possibly larger gold pieces would also have settled here.


The second time there I could not bring the detector so I gathered the material, presorted and panned the heavies first as they go faster and then the fines which takes longer as there is just more of it and I'm slower at the fines. I was getting into a more productive section of the site as can be seen in the next picture of the amount I collected on the second time.


Presorting and panning were taking far too long especially as for panning I usually sit in the water as this is easier on my back but the water is 54 degrees F and with the weather cooling so I wanted to speed up the process. I bought and carried in a Keen A52 sluice. I prepared a location in the river by stacking rocks in a "V" pattern to help funnel the water into the flume at the top of the sluice. I then palyed with the angle of the sluice for the volume of water I had at that time. My first test was a fines pile that the GMT had said to sort but I'd not done it yet. The GMT was right as there was gold there and some nice gold at that, more flat nuggets. Alas, I've not had time to take pictures of the results of the third trip but there's more than from the second trip and the first trip combined.

So now we come to my question for all of you - Seeing the type of gold I'm going for, flat nuggets along with smaller to fine pieces, is the Keen sluice the best unit for this type of gold? Why I ask this question is that during the third trip, early one morning I started with a cleanup bucket of the material on the "floor" of the trench I had dug. After several scoops of roughly sorted material, the large stones had been removed, the riffles were starting to fill up and as I was about to dump another scoop I noticed a nice 1/4" diameter flat nugget had come to rest just before the black matting. I was trying to decide to dump the scoop or put the scoop back and do something about the nugget when the current fluctuated in the sluice and the nugget shot out the end of the sluice. I decreased the angle of the sluice but the riffles filled up even faster. I went to a more severe presorting method, taxing may back, but the riffles still filled up quickly which meant I was doing more sluice cleanups than I wanted or liked to do. So, am I using the right type of sluice? Am I doing something wrong to cause the riffles to fill up quickly with fines and lighter material (the big rocks just roll right on through the sluice even at the reduced angle)? I am NEW to the sluicing process and really do not know for sure how to properly work with a sluice, the current, the angle and other variables that I've not even thought of. I would appreciate your help and experience.

Thank you ahead of time for your assistance. Regards, 63bkpkr

 

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[63bkpkr]

Sorry, the first picture doubled up so just enjoy the rocks a second time. Oh, you may note in the second picture that there is a redish "8" shaped thing on the dime. That is two nuggets cemented together with rust. It was in the bottom of the pan when I finshed panning the fines and I just brought it home for the dickens of it. When I scraped it the rust came off and the gold shone through like a beacon. The moral here is that if you find a bunch of rocks with rust on them break the rust up with another rock and let the broken off particles go through the sluice and who knows you may find some nuggets this way.

Also, on the second trip the quantity of the large flat nuggets increased as well as did their size. Then the site began to fade out as the gold quantity and size diminished with each bucket. However I suspect there could be more there but the floor or bottom of the trench floods and I can not see to move boulders with a four foot long "wrecking bar", an old thing that came from the SP Co. (Southern Pacific?) So if I could get the water stopped or at least drained I might be able to work the floor. But first, what sluice is best and or how to use the A52 properly.

Again, thanks.

 

[AU Seeker]

Flat flakes are very hard to deal with as they tend to "kite" in the water flow no matter what sluice you are using, you may want to try using different sizes of raised expanded metal over carpet or miner's moss (if you use miner's moss use ribbed rubber matting under it if the moss is unbacked) starting with large expanded and smaller expanded further down the sluice and doing away with the riffles, which will give the flakes more area to get caught in and it will also let you slow the flow even more, riffles need a lot of flow to clear effectively, keep the v ribbed rubber matting in the top of your sluice, use 2 strips of wood and spring clamps on the sides of your sluice to hold down the expanded metal and carpet or miner's moss, this setup will also get a lot of the finer gold that I'm seeing in your picture, as I'm sure a lot of fine gold is blowing out of your sluice, even the small gold will add up fast if a lot of it is present.

To help with getting the material that is getting flooded with water as you dig down you need to make or buy a PVC sucker tube to suck up the material in the water, if you haven't used a sucker tube you will be pleased with the results, it will also help you gather material that is in the stream, as I'm sure with the gold you are finding there is very good gold in the stream as well directly be,ow the area you are working.


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[Goldwasher]

flat pieces and fine small stuff are gonna be the ones that might get blown through any sluice. this piece you saw in front of the vmat are you sure it made it all the way out the end? if so you may have to much flow....gold will hit the vmat and move down alot but normally just into the riffles. in my opinion based on alot of experience the size gold your showing is gonna be recovered by your sluice....wich is some pretty good lookin stuff by the way... i have the same sluice you do and it is very modified so i dont have to spend the time bucket classifying...and to make sure it catches the flood gold so prevelant in the overbuden in the local streams and rivers...........way to sample with the GMT i had one on loan for a while very close to my gm4 i miss the follow the black sand feature though. keep it up...your recovering more than most.

 

[TerryC]

You probably already know what I am learning of the GMT. It is a very good machine! I have just over 4 hours on mine. Still logging the results of playing with the SAT functions. I will have other things to work on before I feel confidant to "hit the creeks" with it. It is plain you've got it down AND got it right! I can't wait for my turn! Good work! One question... some say to hunt with the threshold just below audible. What are your thoughts on that? TNX TTC

 

[Goldwasher]

hey terry the gmy i was using had a much more stable threshhold yhan my gm/4...ive heard it commented that they are loud machines , ive only used whites im new to detecting so i have no comparison.last time out with my gm/4 it seemed like my thresh was more stable as i turned it uop and my earphones down a little.....does turning up the thresh lose depth....anyone?

 

[AU Seeker]

hey terry the gmy i was using had a much more stable threshhold yhan my gm/4...ive heard it commented that they are loud machines , ive only used whites im new to detecting so i have no comparison.last time out with my gm/4 it seemed like my thresh was more stable as i turned it uop and my earphones down a little.....does turning up the thresh lose depth....anyone?

Turning your threshold down until you can't hear anything will lose you depth, the best setting for your threshold is where you can barely hear it, you will get better depth by turning up the threshold, but with all of the "ground noise" at a higher threshold setting you will miss targets by not being able to tell the difference in the target and the ground noise, adjust your headphone volume as high as you can and still be comfortable.


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[Goldwasher]

lol my t key turned into a y key..... .... once i start finding targets i"ll adjust my settings several different ways, mainly gain and vsat, locally i can rarely run my vsat on its lowest setting. if i run my vsat all the way i can up my gain a bit but, its usually at 4 or i get alot of ground noise alot of iron mineralization here.after any hunt i walk back out to my car with my gain up at like seven and vsat all the way walking and scanning pretty fast and i still find targets mostly pretty shallow though. i found a spot that where some one had been plinkink with a .22 that way i'd found the bullets 50 yrds down hill and on my way out i hit where whoever was standing and shooting cause i found a patch of .22 cases......so if vsat up loses some depth does the increase in gain with higher vsat gain alittle bit of that depth back?

 

[strickman]

nice looking stuff ,that has some meat to it . should catch it in your sluice fine with the right flow . most of that should stay on the ribbed matting . sometimes the flat ones can be a problem ,feed your sluice a little slower so you don't load up .

 

[AU Seeker]

Pville,

Do you have an owner's manual for your GM/4?

It may be able to answer your question better than I can, I have a little experience with the GMT but I haven't operated the GM/4.

In my experience you need to set the gain as high as possible without overloading the detector or being unstable, your ground conditions will be the determining factor here, the Vsat is for maintaining your threshold the higher you have it set the slower you will need too sweep your coil so that the Vsat can maintain your threshold, again your ground conditions will determine your Vsat setting.

Using a test nugget or a small piece of lead in the actual area you are detecting will help get these settings right for that area's ground conditions, and the ground can change as you move around the area so you may need to reset/adjust your settings from time to time.

If you don't have a manual, here is a link to download a PDF manual for your detector.

http://media.whiteselectronics.com/manuals/Goldmaster Manuals/GM 4B Instruction Manual.pdf


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[Goldwasher]

yep have the manual next to my downstairs readin throne....it is well studied i actually wish it was a little more technical i have found one nice flake in a trshy little ravine near me.i have found alot i mean alot of small non ferrous stuff shot, copper bullet jackets very very very tiny little pieces of degraded beer bottle foil(those r screamers)pull tabs etc im only on my second set of batteries so i havnt been at it long boot nails bb's tons of square nails.i can find square nails at 6 plus inches i found an old shovel head down by the american more than a foot deep.i always have test targets with me.some of the tertiary channels here have so much iron in the sand its hard as steel and orange with oxidization, and that is why i cant go much higher than four on my gain when i can i do. i dont want to steal the original thread as my main source of gold is sniping and sluicing, i just rarely get informative responses in my md posts so thanx for that one last thing i would love to find a copy of ZIP ZIP never even seen one....who has experience with a bigfoot coil or sierra max? ..... done sidetrackin now.

 

[AU Seeker]

Mike C at this link had 2 different Zip Zip books for sale, neither were the latest book "The Complete Unabridged Zip Zip" which is the one to have if you can find it, one did sell but I think the other is still up for grabs.

http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17930


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[63bkpkr]

Hi All,
I've been holding back on responding as: 1) I was dead tired from hiking out a 90 lb backpack 2) I wanted the right conditions for a picture of the gold from the 3rd trip to my spot 3) I wanted to receive the most replys possible before responding.

First, thank you everyone for responding with your inputs, they are all worthwhile as they require me to think about what I've been doing versus your experiences.

Terry C of Murphys: I always run the GMT with threshold sound very low but there. My experience with this machine is limited, the 1st trip of this year in July saw more use and adjusting than ever before. In the GMT manual under Field Use and Tips and any place they talk about Gain & VSat (salt & pepper) pay close attention to those comments, like at greater than 6 in VSat it begins to do some special evaluations! I carried most of the paper manual in with me and refered to it often and this really helped me gain some insight to using the machine. I was pleased to find that my "target chip" could still be seen by the machine even after I'd blocked most of the readings from the beach, remember I was sorting out the heavies and fines and dumping them on the beach to check them with the GMT. This allowed me to know that when the GMT said there was a target I KNEW there was. pvillehunter's comments on the GMT are right on and pville the nugget was GONE from the sluice as nothing like it was panned(a true disappointment!). So Terry, in my opinion and limited experience the Gain & VSat settings are very important and useful in pushing the machine to excell at its job and, to use a worn out but true phrase, practice practice to learn the machine. I'm still learning.

I will install a type of Grizzly on the flume of my A52. This will allow me to presort the materials somewhat with less effort and back ache. I will have to pour water over the mixture but "I think" it will be a better method than bucket sifting as that really does my back in AS I just can't seem to stop shoveling More sample into the bucket to be sifted, "gold fever"? I Might even go back in one more time this year to evaluate the site further. As I've mentioned the site has a water leakage problem that hampers being able to see the large rocks when they are under water. Its very hard to move a rock when you can't see to get a bite on it with the pry bar especially when your back is sore. The first trip to the spot was in July of this year and the water was very high while for my third trip (Aug-Sept) I noticed the water was much lower but still a problem. So maybe by the end of September the water will be more manageable though the temperatures of both air and water are going to be lower.

Here are a few more pictures: The first is the site before I touched it - Oh possibly knowing why I started there will be interesting to some. The large VW Bug size boulder has a crack all the way through it on "the down river side of the water flow" where heavier particles are most likely to fall out of the water. The first and only item on my to do list was to drop that cracked section off to see what was in the crack. To do that I had to move another boulder out of the way then once in the crack I found one single flat nugget but it was a nice one so I kinda just kept digging and Moving Lots more rocks.

,

The second picture is of the 1st boulder just having been moved out of its location and Before lots more work was done to get it out of the way of the granite section being dropped.

The third picture shows where the first nugget came from, see the bucket with the rotten section of root in it, yes the nugget had hung up on the rotten root



The fourth picture shows the gold from this last trip (Aug-Sept) and it shows the "Gold Target" I use in the field. I used a section of a mangled up gold ring I'd found while coin shooting and glued it to a Poker chip so I could keep track of it while in the field. It is amazing how quickly things in the field wander off if you do not make them visible or tie them to something that does not get lost.



And the fifth picture gives you an idea of the country I go into. That's me but look over "my" left shoulder and you will see a 500' waterfall in the background. There are pools of water back there that may never have been touched by human toes. Fish?? The pools may be sterile though I have another spot backed by a 200' waterfall where the pools (yes thats more than one pool) are Filled with Native Rainbow Trout that are 18" to 24" long and of course other smaller ones. Places like these are not often visited by humans as they are just too hard to get to, thank goodness! Oh and just incase you are wondering what I do for protection "out there", I carry a 454 Casull (you can just barely see it in the picture of me and the 500' falls, its in the lower left corner in the black shoulder holster on top of the black pack). The Bears are Big in this place and unfortunately the Parks have been dumping their bad bears in this area for many years so the cubs are being taught by the Sow to go to humans for food.



I was very thankful for the tip on how flat nuggets are known to "kite" in the water, doesn't stop the problem but at least I know why. It is odd that that One nugget did it as others had not but it is also possible that nuggets I'd not noticed also zipped right out of the sluice. It will be important for me to keep the sluice low in solids and that means more work.

Happy hunting, Herb

 

[63bkpkr]

Sorry for no pictures, I guess I need more sleep. Here they are.

 

[TerryC]

Got your PM and responded. Tnx. if you are moving around with a 90# pack, Your hired! Tnx for the posts and pics. TTC

 

[63bkpkr]

Hey Terry, I did not say I LIKED carrying a 90 lb pack I just did it. Back in 89 I brought in a 115 lb pack as we were going to be moving boulders with come-alongs however, I was in top shape at that time and currently I'm not. Though at 66.5 years of age I'm still doing ok for myself and as long as I can I will go out in the wilderness to "PLAY". When people suggest that I should get a donkey I tell them I already have a jack ass, me.

 

[TerryC]

I'm 61. At my state of health, shooting for 66.5 would be just fine with me! lol. Tnx. TTC

 

[kuger]

Nice gold and nice country,but I must tell you....it is a common myth about the parks dumping bears in certain areas.....I worked for the Gov. service that trapped "problem" bears and will tell you they all died.State parks do not do there own trapping