Victorioso

[Goldminer]

Does anyone remember when this ship went down off Key Largo? I worked it back in 1964, found great artifacts, but can't remember when she sank. The wreck is directly off Caesars Creek, very close to a twenty foot deep reef. I am quite sure the ship did not sink by hitting the reef. I found lots of ash covered artifacts in the bottom planking. One artifact was a broken sliding bar shot that had rigging rope still wrapped around it. Like a dummy, I gave it away when i sold my dive shop. Mendel Peterson from the Smithsonian Inst. came to my home to take it back to DC, but it was gone.

 

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[sphillips]

Interesting Goldminer, I lived in the keys thru out the 80's and early 90's and never heard of that wreck.

 

[Blak bart]

Does anyone remember when this ship went down off Key Largo? I worked it back in 1964, found great artifacts, but can't remember when she sank. The wreck is directly off Caesars Creek, very close to a twenty foot deep reef. I am quite sure the ship did not sink by hitting the reef. I found lots of ash covered artifacts in the bottom planking. One artifact was a broken sliding bar shot that had rigging rope still wrapped around it. Like a dummy, I gave it away when i sold my dive shop. Mendel Peterson from the Smithsonian Inst. came to my home to take it back to DC, but it was gone.

Goldminer...you once a few years back told me to look inshore.....I did....you were right. I go to the site a few times a year, and take my guests there to dive. The inshore site is unbelievable, and there are piles of cannon balls,and barshot.....including the retractable type. Of coarse its in a national park now so its look don't touch, but there is also a large amount of coins still there in the sand ...... Marty meylach also gave me some great tips on this massive treasure wreck....even the ballast can sometimes contain fire opal from mexico.....in the words of Marty meylach...."a genuine treasure galleon in every respect"

 

[Blak bart]

Date of sinking would be 1770s....ill have to check my notes but I think 1771....."La nuevo victorioso" the new victory !!

 

[Blak bart]

Its giant anchor i belive is located at caloosa cove resort !!

 

[Blak bart]

I believe your bar shot was the "smoking gun" that could prove that the ship sank in a running battle.....recently the Archie's worked it for a couple summers, and were disappointed by a lack of artifacts.....they were in the original spot and not at the secondary spot where tons of wreckage still lies !! But you know they know far more about it than this born and bred conch that has dove it his whole life....such smarty pants they are !!

 

[Blak bart]

Also known as the pillar dollar wreck.....from all the pillar dollars on the wreck !! One legand that dates to the 90s is that a local cattle boat dive master stumbled onto hundreds...if not thousands of these pillar dollars while on the job with 20 +paying divers.....he quit his job on that day, and returned that night and recovered a massive hoard of clumped coins......he was gone and never herd from again, and is thought to be far from the state of florida.....keep in mind that this is a national park, and they would crucify him publicly if that could be proven.....sometimes the little guy does win...and get away with it.....many other stories like this up and down the keys !!

 

[Blak bart]

My own theory on this one is that it was under attack from English or American privateers.....they were in a long protracted battle that started in the bahamas side of the Gulfstream. I think they crossed the stream and in an effort to elude there pursuers they ran headlong into the reef you talk of.....the impact was brutal and she bilged badly....many cannon and shot were thrown overboard in an effort to refloat her....as they attempted to free themselves from the reef....they were lit up with flaming retractable bar shot !! As the boat floated off the reef she was burning and had no steering.....a large section of bottom dropped out of here with ballast and she rolled.....all this wreckage (about 2/3rds of here ended up father inshore where it was ground to pieces on the jagged inshore ledge/reef over successive storms and hurricanes. Im also convinced that her attackers ran headlong into the reef about 3/4 of a mile south and also perished.....I've seen the English guns there on the reef....many of these guns were salvaged, but a couple remain on this spot !!

The archies, and the treasure salvors of the past don't always agree with me, but I have put it all together because I have the stories of each and every one who worked it. They did not communicate with each other, and there was great competition on this wreck between salvors....even gun play...right goldminer ?? I've been able to piece it all together by interviewing these rivals and getting all the puzzle pieces together !! Including all the archie work and papers !!

 

[Goldminer]

My own theory on this one is that it was under attack from English or American privateers.....they were in a long protracted battle that started in the bahamas side of the Gulfstream. I think they crossed the stream and in an effort to elude there pursuers they ran headlong into the reef you talk of.....the impact was brutal and she bilged badly....many cannon and shot were thrown overboard in an effort to refloat her....as they attempted to free themselves from the reef....they were lit up with flaming retractable bar shot !! As the boat floated off the reef she was burning and had no steering.....a large section of bottom dropped out of here with ballast and she rolled.....all this wreckage (about 2/3rds of here ended up father inshore where it was ground to pieces on the jagged inshore ledge/reef over successive storms and hurricanes. Im also convinced that her attackers ran headlong into the reef about 3/4 of a mile south and also perished.....I've seen the English guns there on the reef....many of these guns were salvaged, but a couple remain on this spot !!

The archies, and the treasure salvors of the past don't always agree with me, but I have put it all together because I have the stories of each and every one who worked it. They did not communicate with each other, and there was great competition on this wreck between salvors....even gun play...right goldminer ?? I've been able to piece it all together by interviewing these rivals and getting all the puzzle pieces together !! Including all the archie work and papers !!

My own theory on this one is that it was under attack from English or American privateers.....they were in a long protracted battle that started in the bahamas side of the Gulfstream. I think they crossed the stream and in an effort to elude there pursuers they ran headlong into the reef you talk of.....the impact was brutal and she bilged badly....many cannon and shot were thrown overboard in an effort to refloat her....as they attempted to free themselves from the reef....they were lit up with flaming retractable bar shot !! As the boat floated off the reef she was burning and had no steering.....a large section of bottom dropped out of here with ballast and she rolled.....all this wreckage (about 2/3rds of here ended up father inshore where it was ground to pieces on the jagged inshore ledge/reef over successive storms and hurricanes. Im also convinced that her attackers ran headlong into the reef about 3/4 of a mile south and also perished.....I've seen the English guns there on the reef....many of these guns were salvaged, but a couple remain on this spot !!

The archies, and the treasure salvors of the past don't always agree with me, but I have put it all together because I have the stories of each and every one who worked it. They did not communicate with each other, and there was great competition on this wreck between salvors....even gun play...right goldminer ?? I've been able to piece it all together by interviewing these rivals and getting all the puzzle pieces together !! Including all the archie work and papers !!

BB, I found nice pieces of Mexican Fire Opal in the ash, along with Port. copper coins. How do you know about the gun play? Since I found that iron ring attached to coral rock in Caesars Creek, I am thinking maybe Black Caesar might have been the one firing at Victorioso.

 

[Blak bart]

Talked to more than a few people who poked around on that wreck....almost all worked off the end of the reef in the sand...archies too !! People waving guns at each other and threatening each other happend on more than one site down here in those no permit,... gold rush days of keys treasurehunting. Apparently more than once here at this site...up to 3 boats at once. Also I know after it became a park a group was caught here with buckets of artifacts, and they had everything confiscated and got heavy fines....they even took there cars and boat trailers !! The paper that east Carolina wrote on this wreck was titled "the effects of treasure hunting and looting on spanish colonial shipwrecks" ....or something close to that...it was a chop piece on treasurehunting. I went to the site for a snorkel one day and was shocked to see all the timbers exposed !! On closer inspection I could see the timber tags the archies use...they hadn't bothered to re sand it as per there agreement with the national park.....I found that pretty ironic.....blow it open and leave it.....and then write a hit piece on treasurehunting!!

 

[Blak bart]

My grandfather had land at ocean reef in its very early days...57 58 ? It was a small fish camp then not the mega country club it is now....he treasure hunted there in the 60s and 70s right up till it became park. I have a ring also and know of another thats still there !! Black ceaser if he exsited was actually in broad creek....there is a site there that dates to the 1700s.....also several people have found caches of coins on Elliott key !! One was 450 pieces of eight....none later than 1680.....so activity on this island overlaps !! My ring is nice and was not in rock but found as a pair in an old black mangrove.....that tree is still there....the other ring should be too !! I believe more than one group used these rings to careen, by hauling there masts over to roll the boats bottom over for cleaning. The story of black ceaser hauling his mast head over to hide his vessel is less likely than this spot was a known careening spot.....but its not out of the realm of possibility !! More likely privateer battle....enforcing English law !! traditional stories of black ceaser exsit in more than one version.....one says he hung with blackbeards crew many years before la nuevo victorioso wrecked ?? Its all a mystery until the archies choose to work these sites....they wont...it would bring to much publicity and pressure to the national park....in the form of tourists !!