Video link to my new device.....

[Jim in Idaho]

Here's a link to a video I did last fall at Bonanza Bar on the Snake. The prototype was built using a cutoff 55 gallon drum. Diameter is about 22". The units I'm selling are 18". They weigh about 11lbs. Made of painted mild steel, with some moving parts made of stainless. Time to let this cat out of the bag...LOL. Looking forward to comments, good or bad. It doesn't look like much, does it? Hard to believe how well it recovers the ultra-fine gold, even fed nearly bank-run material. And very little water for it's size. The bed is 254 sq.inches.
Jim

 

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[Jim in Idaho]

I think the best system for the lifting plates would be some sort of carpet on the edges. The problem is it's added labor, and materials, and would add to the cost, without making a really large difference in diaphragm life. IMHO the duration of the diaphragm, because they're so cheap, is a non-issue. Not saying I'm right...that's just how I look at it.
Jim

 

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[johnedoe]

Thanks, John. I do round, and smooth the edges, of course.

Actually Jim I figured you did that... I just didn't get that added to my post.....

 

[Jim in Idaho]

No problem at all, John. :-) In fact, I appreciate everybody's input....makes me go back through everything in my mind, and my reasoning for what I'm doing.
Jim

 

[CyHawkGold]

It got down to 19° last night and a couple inches of snow today so will be a couple more weeks before I really want to be playing in the water.

The glacial gold is definitely a fine flour -100 to -300 or so.

I am definitely leaning towards getting one.

Use it wet here, to learn all the idiosyncrasies, then use it both wet and dry when we get out west.

Also determine what membrane we like and have access to and get a stockpile together.

 

[CyHawkGold]

I also wondered how much water is too much water?

If I put together a small 2-2 1/2" dredge to suck up the sand in the creek , feed it to a crash box mounted over the funnel you show, do you think it would work?

Thank you

 

[Jim in Idaho]

The water amount isn't critical, like most things with this unit. But, you don't want so much that there is visible flow across the diaphragm. If there's enough to run a sluice, it may be too much. No way to tell without trying it. I know the 22" model (54% more surface area), in the video, didn't require much water, as shown, but I didn't test it to see how much it would tolerate, and still recover the flour. One benefit of a round design is that the material movement slows the farther from the center it gets. So, what Looks like a lot of water at the center is actually a very thin amount going over the rim.
My theory on the water flow is the water going in at the center sinks down through the pile, and tries to maintain a level with the outside edge. The gold can't go out, without working it's way through all the gravel on it's way to the edge. By the time it does that, it has sunken down to the diaphragm surface, and "swept" towards the center. It would require a lot of water to have water flowing over the top of the gravel, carrying the gold with it.
Got down to 20* here this morning, and the wind has been howling for a week, with cloudy weather. Not much fun being outdoors.:-(
Jim

 

[CyHawkGold]

Thanks Jim,

For all the extra details.

I hate to handle the material 5 or 6 times before I have the gold separated.

I'm just trying to come up with ways to cut out some of the grunt work.

I don't have the strength or stamina I had 40 years ago.
I'm not going to pick up a full 5gal bucket, hold it waist high and shake it out very many times in a day.
Especially not after digging out the material and carrying the buckets any distance at all.

I'll come up with some way to reduce the amount of water and get the material above the funnel without alot of manual labor.

I have a few solar panels and 12v equipment already.

Time to sharpen the pencils and do some tinkering.

Later

 

[Jim in Idaho]

These jigs are only about 15" tall. Feed funnel adds about 10" more, depending. I just feed mine with a shovel. I'm not into hoisting loaded 5 gallon buckets either...69 years old, and 44 years of concrete work behind me, my back is shot, and my right hip started giving me trouble a month ago. Going to try and get through the summer without surgery. Probably have a replacement this coming winter. It has calmed down the last week.
Not much classification needed on these units. I'm not sure that the larger gravel doesn't help the recovery on the flour.....greater grinding, and agitation action than pure sand would have. Ideally, I would shoot for about 1" minus gravel...along with the typical mud, etc.
If you can come up with a way to get the water into the center, you can forego the funnel. You just need to put the new feed roughly in the center.....not a big deal. It was cheaper, and easier for me to build these with the funnels, rather than trying to come up with a water spray device at the center that didn't interfere with the shovel. Ideally, you want the water spray, and new feed going in together, or, if not pumping water, you could add a scoop of material, then a scoop of water, and so on, etc. Lots of ways to skin this cat.
Jim
Jim

 

[arizau]

The water amount isn't critical, like most things with this unit. But, you don't want so much that there is visible flow across the diaphragm. If there's enough to run a sluice, it may be too much. No way to tell without trying it. I know the 22" model (54% more surface area), in the video, didn't require much water, as shown, but I didn't test it to see how much it would tolerate, and still recover the flour. One benefit of a round design is that the material movement slows the farther from the center it gets. So, what Looks like a lot of water at the center is actually a very thin amount going over the rim.
My theory on the water flow is the water going in at the center sinks down through the pile, and tries to maintain a level with the outside edge. The gold can't go out, without working it's way through all the gravel on it's way to the edge. By the time it does that, it has sunken down to the diaphragm surface, and "swept" towards the center. It would require a lot of water to have water flowing over the top of the gravel, carrying the gold with it.
Got down to 20* here this morning, and the wind has been howling for a week, with cloudy weather. Not much fun being outdoors.:-(
Jim

The only way I can visualize your machine losing flour gold is when it is fed almost pure fine black sands as shown in post #55 by johnedoe or when they build up to lip level. That feed is almost 100% minus 100 mesh (much of it and the gold is much smaller!) and of course very dense. Those black sands instantly cake (lock up) when not in motion and the micron gold contained in new feed could just ride it's way out on or near the surface as it does when it is panned in overly large quantities. It is not likely that deposits like that will be found anywhere other than on ocean beaches. Keeping that in mind, aside from slowing down the feed rate, a possible way to defeat or minimize those special situations is to keep virtually everything in a fluid state by increasing the rpm of the sweep....just a thought, not a suggestion to modify the device since it obviously seems to work as is under more normal conditions.

Wish I had water where I usually prospect or could use motors when I beach mine in Oregon.

Good luck.

PS In addition to what you said about larger gravel, it creates space for settling if the surface is otherwise locked up with heavy fines.

 

[Jim in Idaho]

The only way I can visualize your machine losing flour gold is when it is fed almost pure fine black sands as shown in post #55 by johnedoe or when they build up to lip level. That feed is almost 100% minus 100 mesh (much of it and the gold is much smaller!) and of course very dense. Those black sands instantly cake (lock up) when not in motion and the micron gold contained in new feed could just ride it's way out on or near the surface as it does when it is panned in overly large quantities. It is not likely that deposits like that will be found anywhere other than on ocean beaches. Keeping that in mind, aside from slowing down the feed rate, a possible way to defeat or minimize those special situations is to keep virtually everything in a fluid state by increasing the rpm of the sweep....just a thought, not a suggestion to modify the device since it obviously seems to work as is under more normal conditions.

Wish I had water where I usually prospect or could use motors when I beach mine in Oregon.

Good luck.

PS In addition to what you said about larger gravel, it creates space for settling if the surface is otherwise locked up with heavy fines.

You have the theory down pat, AU. That's one of the reasons I recommend dumping the cons every hour, or so. Even the coarser gravel doesn't help break up the heavies, as it just floats out over the top. Down at Bonanza Bar, there is very fine, really heavy clay. In the jig it packs into a thin layer, like skin, that has to be peeled off the diaphragm. But, that layer has all the gold in it....LOL, which is a GOOD thing.
At some point, I may try adding steel shot ragging to the jig. Movement of that may prevent the clay from packing, but still trap the gold.
There's a downside to too much rotor speed....it starts flinging stuff off the table..;...not good. Optimal speed is about 275 feet/minute at the perimeter. For more action, more lifting arms are needed, but at some point, the number of arms causes a lessening of the up/down effect, too. As with all things, there are tradeoffs. I have some more ideas, but the problem is cost. The more things you add, the less able people are to afford the jigs. If they sell in decent numbers, I may offer add-ons for people that can afford to upgrade. But, I'm really happy with how well it works, as is.
Jim

 

[CyHawkGold]

-1", excellent, definitely have that mixed in the sand here.

That's why I was thinking about a 2 1/2" dredge nozzle with a slightly reduced tip and a bolt across.

Plenty of water here, too much actually, with the rains and snow melt.
Saturday we had 63° for a high then it dropped 47°, not normal for us.

One place in NM we want to go should have plenty of water but the other's won't have any but the ground might be damp once we dig down some, so a drywasher won't work.

Having a piece of equipment that can handle both conditions sounds ideal.

I'm 69 as well, done some kind of construction most of my life, beat up my body doing other things for fun. Take enteric coated aspirin and glucosamine/chondroitin for the joints, has made a huge difference.

I had my buddy that I help occasionally drop me off about 4 miles from home last night and carrying a small backpack hiked it on home. Took me 72 minutes. Just getting back in shape for the expedition this summer. Have lost 20-25 lbs, so feeling pretty good.

 

[WaProspecting]

Could you engineer something from the rotor to make the feeder shake? Could also put a removable classifier so it doesn't drop instantly on the table.

I was also thinking you could make a slope from the feeder where you start the wash process then it could wash it down through the shoot and have a longer wash process. Then if it is clay material you could break it up with your hands before it went on the table. That was pretty cool though and never seen that before.

 

[Jim in Idaho]

-1", excellent, definitely have that mixed in the sand here.

That's why I was thinking about a 2 1/2" dredge nozzle with a slightly reduced tip and a bolt across.

Plenty of water here, too much actually, with the rains and snow melt.
Saturday we had 63° for a high then it dropped 47°, not normal for us.

One place in NM we want to go should have plenty of water but the other's won't have any but the ground might be damp once we dig down some, so a drywasher won't work.

Having a piece of equipment that can handle both conditions sounds ideal.

I'm 69 as well, done some kind of construction most of my life, beat up my body doing other things for fun. Take enteric coated aspirin and glucosamine/chondroitin for the joints, has made a huge difference.

I had my buddy that I help occasionally drop me off about 4 miles from home last night and carrying a small backpack hiked it on home. Took me 72 minutes. Just getting back in shape for the expedition this summer. Have lost 20-25 lbs, so feeling pretty good.

LOL....I walk 39 miles/month, year-around. Miss occasionally when the winter weather is really bad. My typical walk, with the dog, is down the canal bank, twice/day...1,200 yards round trip. That equals 1.36 miles/day, or 40.9 miles/month. That's near 480 miles/year, and that doesn't count every day stuff, and all the time in the mountains. LOL...I guess that's why my hip is wearing out.
Jim

 

[Jim in Idaho]

Could you engineer something from the rotor to make the feeder shake? Could also put a removable classifier so it doesn't drop instantly on the table.

I was also thinking you could make a slope from the feeder where you start the wash process then it could wash it down through the shoot and have a longer wash process. Then if it is clay material you could break it up with your hands before it went on the table. That was pretty cool though and never seen that before.

LOL...could do a lot of things but they all make the cost higher. No sense making them so fancy nobody can afford them. I'll worry about adding frills when I see a decent market for the plain version.
Jim

 

[WaProspecting]

LOL...could do a lot of things but they all make the cost higher. No sense making them so fancy nobody can afford them. I'll worry about adding frills when I see a decent market for the plain version.
Jim

Have you tried buying left over sheet metal and scraps from HVAC companies, welding companies or commercial sites? I saved some money doing that. All you do is go through the scrap bins and take the measurements you need. Especially if you don't know it will sell.
Still good material but has random cuts and measurements they can't use for the project they are working on. Sometimes they give it out for free so then its just labor costs.

How much does it cost?

 

[arizau]

Have you tried buying left over sheet metal and scraps from HVAC companies, welding companies or commercial sites? I saved some money doing that. All you do is go through the scrap bins and take the measurements you need. Especially if you don't know it will sell.
Still good material but has random cuts and measurements they can't use for the project they are working on. Sometimes they give it out for free so then its just labor costs.

How much does it cost?

This thread is 5 pages long.....go back a page or two and you have your answer.

 

[WaProspecting]

Okay? Was actually interested after I watched the video but didn't get much from the first few pages and some of the information wasn't about the device. Sorry I'm new and just started reading the thread late. Thought I would ask the person who made the device before I start reading the things not associated with it and wasted my time doing so.

Are they still $250 plus shipping and what does it come with? Do you have a eBay store?

 

[Jim in Idaho]

Okay? Was actually interested after I watched the video but didn't get much from the first few pages and some of the information wasn't about the device. Sorry I'm new and just started reading the thread late. Thought I would ask the person who made the device before I start reading the things not associated with it and wasted my time doing so.

Are they still $250 plus shipping and what does it come with? Do you have a eBay store?

They are still $250, but I only have one available at that price. They come with 2 or 3 diaphragms, and the device, and that's it. No water pump, or hookup. I usually just use a cheap clamp to connect the water supply hose to the feed funnel. The funnel and mounts are included. The test offer is also still on. I'm changing the design to a solid body....no more skeletonized versions....too labor intensive. The price for the newer units is going to be somewhere in the $375 to $425 range. I'm still building fixtures and jigs to reduce the labor time, so am not sure where the labor costs are, yet.
One of the early purchasers said he found it difficult to get the elastic band on that holds the diaphragm in place, but finally managed it. I didn't have that problem, but thought you should know. The new units will have a different, and larger, groove for the elastic to fit into....should make that easier.
As far as an EBay store....don't have one. I'm not really into production yet. I need to set up an LLC before selling any numbers of units. Still looking into that.
Jim

 

[Jim in Idaho]

You're about 5 hours from here Jim, I'm at the LDMA Blue Bucket Mining Camp and we're going to have a GPAA outting here from May 23rd to the 28th. If you want to get some exposure and have a bunch of people check it out, then think about coming over for the outting. We'll set you up in your own area and there's no charge for venders if your an LDMA member. Karen and I are caretaking the camp this year and we have a ton of great looking hi-bar material already stacked by the ponds.

Reed, I have no idea how I missed this post! I would really like to come over there. I spent some time in LaGrand when I was a teenager, and have always liked that part of Oregon. Send me a PM with details, if it isn't too much trouble...and Thanks!
Jim

 

[arizau]

Reed, I have no idea how I missed this post! I would really like to come over there. I spent some time in LaGrand when I was a teenager, and have always liked that part of Oregon. Send me a PM with details, if it isn't too much trouble...and Thanks!
Jim

What a perfect opportunity to demonstrate your device. A previous post somewhere indicated that they stockpile some feed so that may also give you a chance to do an all dry test like you mentioned you wanted to do sometime in the past.

Good luck.

Edit: Actually the stockpile was mentioned in the post you responded to....just neglected to reread it before I responded to your reply. Not only that, but your original mention to do some additional testing for dry but that was from about a month ago....I can't remember what I had for breakfast either.