Ville de Lyon, Harve France to New York City

Idahodutch

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Yep, you got it right. It was done in April. Have you looked at all the censuses he's on? I think you'll find it pretty consistent. I don't know how the census takers asked the question, but for some reason I've found this happened all the time, not just for Waltz. Take a look at others on the census whose age/DOB is known.

I think my wife has always filled out the census stuff, so I don't know how the question is asked . . today, . . . let alone back in the mid/late 1800's.
Maybe it was "how old you gonna be this year mister_? but that is pure speculation. . . I tried to look it up online, but unsuccessful so far.
Idaho Dutch
 

PotBelly Jim

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You win the "paying attention" prize ;) When you look at a census record, say on Ancestry.com, it will always say something like: "Birth (est/abt) 1810, Wurttemburg". While I'm all thumbs with genealogy stuff, this indicates to me they ask your age vice date of birth.

This is the single biggest question I have with Abstatt Waltz being the Dutchman. On pretty much all the censuses and records (like the Great Register), they're usually done in some month before November, but his age is always seems a year too old (because he wouldn't turn that age until a few months later). About the only thing I've found that makes sense is Ville de Lyon Waltz's age. Now don't take my word on any of this, as I can be a bit dense when it comes to understanding genealogy and all the ins/outs. I have to think this has occurred to Dr. Oertel, who proposed Abstatt Waltz.
 

Idahodutch

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You win the "paying attention" prize ;) When you look at a census record, say on Ancestry.com, it will always say something like: "Birth (est/abt) 1810, Wurttemburg". While I'm all thumbs with genealogy stuff, this indicates to me they ask your age vice date of birth.

This is the single biggest question I have with Abstatt Waltz being the Dutchman. On pretty much all the censuses and records (like the Great Register), they're usually done in some month before November, but his age is always seems a year too old (because he wouldn't turn that age until a few months later). About the only thing I've found that makes sense is Ville de Lyon Waltz's age. Now don't take my word on any of this, as I can be a bit dense when it comes to understanding genealogy and all the ins/outs. I have to think this has occurred to Dr. Oertel, who proposed Abstatt Waltz.

Jim,
More speculation on my part here, but I would lay odds that at least back in the frontier days, it was decided to just draw a line at "How old this year". I would think that even back then, it could get pretty confusing have to always try to be on top of what month that particular census registry was entered, for any particular portion of a territory, for what year, . . terrible for anyone trying to do just what we are doing.

I say lay odds, but not really the betting type, just a speculating type. It doesn't make sense to me to have random census by month and year. Much simpler to track by "Age that Year". Perhaps it was common knowledge back then as far as this was understood . . . I really don't know.
It seems like something that should be common knowledge today. :icon_scratch:
 

PotBelly Jim

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Jim,
More speculation on my part here, but I would lay odds that at least back in the frontier days, it was decided to just draw a line at "How old this year". I would think that even back then, it could get pretty confusing have to always try to be on top of what month that particular census registry was entered, for any particular portion of a territory, for what year, . . terrible for anyone trying to do just what we are doing.

I say lay odds, but not really the betting type, just a speculating type. It doesn't make sense to me to have random census by month and year. Much simpler to track by "Age that Year". Perhaps it was common knowledge back then as far as this was understood . . . I really don't know.
It seems like something that should be common knowledge today. :icon_scratch:

Well, now you know why I suggested when you first brought this up a few pages ago, to get a free account on Family Search, look at all the censuses and come to your own conclusions:laughing7:

I have no idea what is going on here. As far as my own age, it always surprises me on my birthday that I'm turning an age I thought I already was...in other words, at the beginning of a new year, in my mind I'm a year older even though my birthday is a few months off. I routinely give that age when asked, without thinking about it and realizing I actually won't tunr that age for a few months yet. Is that what Waltz did? Don't know. It just seems like I'm not getting something.
 

Idahodutch

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Well, now you know why I suggested when you first brought this up a few pages ago, to get a free account on Family Search, look at all the censuses and come to your own conclusions:laughing7:

I have no idea what is going on here. As far as my own age, it always surprises me on my birthday that I'm turning an age I thought I already was...in other words, at the beginning of a new year, in my mind I'm a year older even though my birthday is a few months off. I routinely give that age when asked, without thinking about it and realizing I actually won't tunr that age for a few months yet. Is that what Waltz did? Don't know. It just seems like I'm not getting something.

:laughing7: Since a few pages ago, it has been nagging me. I couldn't find anything explaining the "AGE" box. Seemed and still seems dumb to me not to have some explanation for that box, but perhaps that was left up to the census takers?
So finally decided to ask the question, that seemed like maybe I was the only one who was in the dark on, what the box "AGE" actually means.

It's the detail side of our personalities. My wife get irritated at times, because I have a tendency to interrupt in attempt to get more detail. . . . I'm working on waiting till the end to ask questions. . . :tongue3:
even when sometimes waiting till the end, I still get an elbow, and her saying "It doesn't matter". (it sort of did to me :dontknow:)
 

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coazon de oro

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found this,but had to cut and paste the column headers
as copying whole pg was either to big or to small for
a jpg/png file. links below to the pgs i copied
i red lined the waltz ifno
my 6month membership has ran out @ ancestry, i think
i can still access the indexes, maybe ill have a look
in a few days.ancestry may have a copy of this too.

a copy of The 1864 census of the territory of Arizona.
The Historical records survey, Division of women's and
professional projects, Works progress administration.
1938
pg links to imgs
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015086976902&view=1up&seq=220

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015086976902&view=1up&seq=221

full record
https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/001306853

View attachment 1808335 View attachment 1808336

The comma does change the question. Seems Mr. Davis had it right, apparently Waltz did show his naturalization papers. Thanks cw0909.
 

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musician

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Even today we sometimes only use the year of birth and don't calculate the actual age. In sport-competition for young and old people for example.

Early in the 19th century the private celebration of the birthday was still rare, for catholics completely not common, they celebrated the namesday, for protestants it started in the 19th century. So maybe the exact age and exact birthdate was not so important as it is today and just the easy calculation with the birth-year was used in such lists.

@ Matthew Additionally you should think like a person from first half of 19th century and not apply only our rules and concepts. If the spelling rule was to match a certain sound by whatever combination of letters you like as appropriate, a difference in spelling was not as important as in our days. Spelling rules for whole Germany came in 1901.

A waltz was one of the most popular dances in the 19th century, written in german with "z". The dance is not the root of the name in the language, because the name is much older than the dance. But in practice the problem for a Walz could have been that everyone in USA wrote his name as a waltz. So why not add a letter, which doesn't change the sound. You have numerous examples, like Müller - Miller - Muller or even other examples where people seem to have used a senseless wrong written name after immigration, may be just because it was somewhere on a official paper.

I saw a list with other Walz from Abstatt immigrating. In such a small village very likely relatives. Would be interesting how they did it.
 

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