WARNING!! Florida law changes

[wreckdiver1715]

Now that the 2005 summer dive season is in full swing down along the Florida coast (well, when the rain finally ends anyway). The comments of another Florida scuba diver on this site caused me to revisit the Florida Historical Commission, the Bureau of Archaeological Research, and the Division of Historical Resources web site. Wow! I am shocked at some of the changes that are posted since my last visit to the site. This does not appear to be good news for all us scuba diving relic/treasure hunters.
Effective 1 June 2005, the division has discontinued the isolated finds program. Removal of artifacts from sovereign submerged lands will no longer be allowed after that date; removal of artifacts from river bottoms and other sovereign submerged lands will be a first degree misdemeanor under ? 267.13(1)(a), Florida Statutes.
I am not entirely sure of the implications that we are now faced with. However, I will be doing more research and contacting Dr. Wheeler, the State Archaeologist and Chief of the Bureau of Archaeological Research next week for more details, and will post them as soon as I get a response from his office.

Stay tuned for more information

Q

 

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[Amona]

Wreckdiver

Can you send me the link where you found that inf.? I think all treasure hunter(water or land) here in florida should do something.

Thank you

Amona

 

[wreckdiver1715]

May 25, 2005

Dear Friends of Florida Archaeology:

The Florida Historical Commission, at its May 21, 2005 meeting, considered three options regarding the Isolated Finds Program currently operated by the Division of Historical Resources. The Commission reviewed input received since its last meeting on April 7, 2005 and heard testimony from interested parties. The options considered were identified by the Bureau of Archaeological Research, namely: 1) discontinue the Isolated Finds Program, with no substitute program to take its place; 2) formalize the existing Isolated Finds Program guidelines as an agency rule with little or no modification; 3) develop a new permit-based program for river collecting formalized by the rule making process. The Commission, acting in its statutorily constituted role to provide assistance, advice, and recommendations to the Division in establishing priorities for the identification, acquisition, protection, and preservation of historic and archaeological sites and properties (? 267.0612, Florida Statutes), unanimously supported Option 1, and recommended that the Division discontinue the Isolated Finds Program.
The Division and Bureau of Archaeological Research have reviewed and accepted the recommendation of the Florida Historical Commission. Beginning June 1, 2005, the Division will discontinue the Isolated Finds Program (see ? 267.115(9), Florida Statutes, which states that ?the division may implement a program to administer finds of isolated historic artifacts from state-owned river bottoms whereby the division may transfer ownership of such artifacts to the finder in exchange for information about the artifacts and the circumstances and location of their discovery?). Removal of artifacts from sovereign submerged lands will no longer be allowed after that date; removal of artifacts from river bottoms and other sovereign submerged lands will be a first degree misdemeanor under ? 267.13(1)(a), Florida Statutes. The Division will accept Isolated Finds reporting forms through July 1, 2005. For additional information visit the Isolated Finds Program website at: http://www.flheritage.com/archaeology/underwater/finds/.
Please note that all data reported through the Isolated Finds Program since 1996 is open to scholars and other interested individuals for public inspection. Further, the Division encourages artifact collectors to work with interested scholars to record their collections in lieu of the Isolated Finds Program.
Please feel free to submit any comments or questions in writing or by e-mail.

Sincerely,


Ryan J. Wheeler, Ph.D.
State Archaeologist and Chief,
Bureau of Archaeological Research

E-mail: rjwheeler@dos.state.fl.us

http://dhr.dos.state.fl.us/archaeology/underwater/finds/

 

[diggummup]

I figure this is too important,so I bumped it back up. -it's happening everywhere,and thier making it harder to know what's going on beforehand and then it's too late to do something to prevent it from happening.Ain't that nice.....

 

[Waterbug]

As far as I'm concerned,many of the so called archaeologist are a bunch of hypocritical,GREEDY, self-serving a$$hs.I did some volunteer work with archaeologists back in the 60s.You would be surprised at what finds do not get reported by them.That is THEIR world and NO ONE else has any business digging up any of their artifacts.Millions of these artifacts are never seen by the public, only by the" Professionals".
My 2 cents.
Waterbug

 

[DugHoles]

In my opinion, you find it, its yours. Obviously staying away from marked "historical" sites.

Best of luck to you. I wish you Floridians the best of luck in getting that law changed

GL & HH,

DugHoles
Upstate NY

 

[aquanut]

Yesterday, I e-mailed Dr. Wheeler my thoughts on the recent State rulings. In a nice way, I made some suggestions and requested his response. I'm waiting to hear from him... I'll keep you informed if he does respond,,, I'd put my letter on, but the copy & paste didn't work. If you want a copy, e-mail me at john@addesignservices.net

aquanut

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Yesterday, I e-mailed Dr. Wheeler my thoughts on the recent State rulings. In a nice way, I made some suggestions and requested his response. I'm waiting to hear from him... I'll keep you informed if he does respond,,, I'd put my letter on, but the copy & paste didn't work. If you want a copy, e-mail me at john@addesignservices.net

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A) I frankly believe that Florida has just lost more reports and recoveries of historical /archaeological finds than would ever be lost by the original? law from "both" the Amatuer and Archaeological worlds. Under this law, most will eventually just complete the process of normal disintegration, a total loss to all.

Where is there any incentative?? Just how many professionals are there that quailfy for field "research", either physically, or have access to the budgiting for it?

Result,? loss of most artifacts? eventually.? This is sound economy or reasoning?? Far better, a way to encourage co-operation between? both to their mutual benefit, and to the states..? Possibly a short state sponsered course similar to your drivers licence..............


JOSE de La Mancha? ( I tilt windmills)

 

[aquanut]

Here is a copy of Dr. Wheeler's reply to my inquiry followed by my letter to him. I hope it helps.


Dear Mr. Redman,

Thank you for your email and your interest in Florida's submerged
prehistoric heritage. I will try to answer your questions about the
Isolated Finds Policy and clarify some misconceptions. First, no law was
passed. Collecting artifacts from Florida rivers was always against the law
according to Chapter 267 of the Florida Statutes (the Florida Historical
Resources Act) which states that all archaeological and historical items
located on state owned or controlled lands, including submerged bottomlands,
are property of the people of the State of Florida with management
responsibility vested in the Division of Historical Resources. The Isolated
Finds Policy was an informal attempt by the Bureau of Archaeological
Research to allow river divers to legally keep artifacts they found in
exchange for information about the artifact and where it came from.
Although some divers were very conscientious in reporting their finds, it
became apparent that most artifacts recovered from rivers were never
reported and there was wide-spread disregard for the Policy. Additionally,
because the Policy was never codified in law, law enforcement personnel had
no way to enforce the Policy.

In 2003, the Florida Historical Commission, the advising body to the
Division, recommended abolishment of the Isolated Finds Policy based on
non-compliance. At that time the Bureau began a series of public meetings
asking for public input regarding the Policy, suggestions for changes, and
recommendations for future directions. In 2004, open public meetings were
held in Tallahassee and Gainesville. Each meeting was advertised in
newspapers, was announced on the Isolated Finds website, and notification
was sent out to everyone in the IF database. A search of the database
indicates that we never received an IF report from you, so you probably did
not receive a personal notification. Minutes from the meetings are
available on the website:
http://dhr.dos.state.fl.us/archaeology/underwater/finds/

The Policy was discontinued as of June 1. However, the Bureau does not want
to sever its relations with those river divers who complied with the Policy
and who have, over the years, assisted the Bureau in reporting sites and
artifact concentrations. We will keep your email on file for future
discussions regarding river collecting.

Ryan J. Wheeler, Ph.D.
State Archaeologist and Chief,
Bureau of Archaeological Research
Rm. 308, R.A. Gray Building
500 S. Bronough Street
Tallahassee, FL 32399-0250
Phone: 850.245.6301
FAX: 850.245.6436
E-mail: rjwheeler@dos.state.fl.us

-----Original Message-----
From: john redman [mailto:john@addesignservices.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 5:03 PM
To: rjwheeler@dos.state.fl.us
Subject: underwater finds

Dr. Wheeler,

I know you have heard all the arguments about how very little in the
way of historical significance would have been found under the water
were it not for the efforts of
us so called "Treasure Hunters". However, I'm at a loss over your new
legislation to criminalize even the act of recovering isolated
artifacts from our waters. The state will never find all the isolated
artifacts nor will they even attempt a search. They simply wait for us
to find it at our expense, then claim it for themselves. By instituting
this legislation, you will lose the benefit you reap from thousands of
us who enjoy the search. Time is not on our side. The artifacts you so
dearly want to protect are just about to the end of their existence
under the water and I doubt they will last another hundred years. Don't
you think we would all benefit from a mutual understanding of what
needs to be done in order to reap the long time benefits of our
efforts. I know one concern is that the state thinks we don't know how
to preserve the finds, much less clean and present them. Well, some of
us do. Those that do not can be taught. The ones who wish to remain
ignorant will also remain ignorant of the law and my belief is that law
enforcement won't stop them anyway. I personally think education and
not the introduction of criminal legislation would be the better
alternative. Could you explain your reasoning and I'll pass it on to
several interested forums and websites.

Sincerely,

John Redman
Amateur Archaeologist

 

[Ocaliman]

This may be answered somewhere else in either the forums, or possibly in the state lawbooks, but what, exactly constitutes a historic or archeological artifact? Is there a cut-off date or a series of guidelines that one can use to determine if what has been found is legal or illegal to possess? I guess what I am saying, is that if I pull a Mercury dime or Barber quarter off of the bottom of a lake or beach, do I need to worry about some misguided archeologist telling some state law enforcement officer to slap me in handcuffs because the item is 100 years old?

 

[Amona]

Ocaliman said

I guess what I am saying, is that if I pull a Mercury dime or Barber quarter off of the bottom of a lake or beach, do I need to worry about some misguided archaeologist telling some state law enforcement officer to slap me in handcuffs because the item is 100 years old?

That is exactly what I'd posted here before in this forum. The issue is the most time who find or discover an archaeology item or site is anybody "BUT" an "ARCHAEOLOGIST", I said the most time.

if that is the pattern, "WHAT THEY ARE DOING FOR THE FLORIDA HISTORICAL HERITAGE?

Amona

 

[deepsix47]

Ho Hum...., why is it that every time I find something that is fun and makes me a little money occasionally, some do gooder comes along and makes it illegal. Kinda makes ya think back to when the railroads drove Frank and Jesse into fighting back....lol. Be safe and good luck to all!!!!
Deepsix