Warning To All Collectors-Please Read-Very Important Info

[The Grim Reaper]

Hey guys, I don't how many of you have collections of Bone and Shell items but if you do you need to heed this warning.

If you have Bone and Shell items in trays using the colored foam backing that comes in all different colors then get them out of there ASAP. I just found out the hard way that this foam eventually starts to deteriorate and as it does it adheres itself to the Bone and Shell artifacts. I was going to rearrange one of my older trays of Ft Ancient pieces from a site I haven't been able to hunt since 1996 because of a change in ownership and as I was trying to take things out to rearrange them the foam was ripping and coming up with the artifacts. I haven't taken everything out so far so I really don't know the extent of the damage and I hope beyond all hope that this stuff comes off these pieces without damaging them. I'm not sure about how it reacts with flint items, but I am going to check all of those trays as well and see how they look. I bought some nice red material from WalMart and I am going to change out the foam in every tray that has any Bone or Shell items and everyone else should do the same before this happens to you.

This is the tray I'm referring too and as you can see there are some really nice pieces in there. Wish me luck. I hope everything is okay. I would be seriously bummed if any of these pieces are permanently damaged.

 

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[The Grim Reaper]

Good news. I managed to get everything out of the tray and get all of the foam off of all the pieces, but it was definitely stuck to them pretty good. It took me almost 2 hours to get everything out, cleaned off, and then back in the tray with the red material. I guess I'll have to go through all my trays and do this, but seeing how this the first tray of Bone and Shell I ever put together in the early 90's the others probably and hopefully won't be as bad.

Seriously though, if you have Bone and Shell displayed on any of the foam that goes in these trays then remove it immediately or you will end up with the same problem I just had.

 

[*Molly*]

Always line the foam with felt, you can buy it from Walmart in pieces also, Hobby Lobby/Micheals by the metre..

Thankgoodness it didn't ruin any artifacts..

Molly.

 

[joshuaream]

Thanks Steve, I'll have to check on my frames. I've got frames in boxes that I haven't opened in years. My newer ones use felt, but I've got some old ones that have foam.

One thing I did learn this year was to glue the felt to the frame with some spray adhesive after I had a piece of felt snag on the lid of a frame. When I opened the lid, the corner of the felt came up and the points when slid down towards the hinges. Nothing quite like the ring of flint on flint, no damage but I count myself lucky.

I remember a guy over on the Pros board that opened a frame of pieces outside a show to show a friend. The wind lifted the foam up and the pieces went flying. He had a couple of gem points that just shattered when they hit they hit the sidewalk.

Joshua

 

[Edmundruffin]

Also, if some bone, shell, slate items are deteriorating, they can be coated in a mixture of acetone and Elmers glue. I know this is altering the artifact, but it beats having a small pile of dust or fragmented bone. A more aggressive mixture of acetone and glue stick gun glue can also be used. Unlike the Elmers glue mixture that can be removed by soaking in hot water, the glue stick mixture is permanent. Both will darken light colored bone tools.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Also, if some bone, shell, slate items are deteriorating, they can be coated in a mixture of acetone and Elmers glue. I know this is altering the artifact, but it beats having a small pile of dust or fragmented bone. A more aggressive mixture of acetone and glue stick gun glue can also be used. Unlike the Elmers glue mixture that can be removed by soaking in hot water, the glue stick mixture is permanent. Both will darken light colored bone tools.

Edmund, actually Elmers Glue is one of the worst things you can use on Bone or Shell. Dr. Gomer sent me this formula for sealing Bone and Shell items and swears by it. He has been restoring artifacst for quite a while and knows what he's talking about.

GENERAL SEALING INSTRUCTIONS



Here is a cheap and easy way to do what you need. Most Universities use a mixture of Butvar 76 plus Acetone to seal bone, shell & pottery. Its down side is that it’s only available in large bags, like 10 lbs at a time. More than a normal person would need in a life time. It also leaves a shiny finish. What we use for our customers and our own personal items is a product named DUCO glue. It is sold at Wal-Marts, K-Marts, etc. It comes in a yellow and green tube and looks like old airplane glue. It is a clear glue with some Acetone already premixed in it. Costs about $1.29. Try this formula on test pieces first to see what consistency gives the results you want. We normally mix it at one tube of glue per one pint of acetone. If you mix in a clear glass you will be able to see the glue mix with the Acetone. Mix in a container big enough to submerge the items. Once the artifact is placed in the mix usually one will see air bubbles escaping. When the bubbles all stop that lets you know the glue as been absorbed “all the way through the item”.

One can actually pick the item up and hold it while it air dries which only takes seconds. The item will have the same finish as it did before it was placed in the mix. No need to double coat as this will only make the item have a shiny look. We prefer artifacts to have the same finish as when found.If the artifact has any moisture in it a down side effect can happen. Where ever moisture is present there will be a white residue appear. This white powder can easily be wiped off with straight Acetone without harming the glue inside the artifact. As a personal note I advice sealing all shell, bone, or pottery items found, even the ones seemingly fossilizing. Artifacts which have been found in a submerged water surrounding we advice either letting us or someone who has experience in this area to seal as this is a much longer and different process than the above.

Try this formula on test pieces first to see what consistency gives the results you want.

 

[Tnmountains]

Seems like I got that recipe out of the fossil section to use on some cave bear teeth. Good info everyone. Thanks!
Welcome to artifacts Edmundruffun!

 

[texaspoint]

50% Elmers Glue and 50% water
is a great treatment for bone.
who ever told you it was bad , did not know what they was talking about.
ask anyone that knows bone.

 

[Th3rty7]

Good info here Steve and others. I learned the hard way about how fast bone can deteriorate when taken from the ground. I found an awl a couple years ago and left it on my mantle. About a week later I noticed a piece had fallen off of it and when I picked it up the whole piece kind of fell apart into about 6 pieces.

 

[joshuaream]

50% Elmers Glue and 50% water
is a great treatment for bone.
who ever told you it was bad , did not know what they was talking about.
ask anyone that knows bone.

Please don't do that to bone relics...

Anything with Elmers glue is going to change the color of the piece and given enough time will yellow out, but mixing it with water is just going to lock moisture inside the piece and that can't be good for long term stability.

I like buvtar resin because that's what I learned how to use in school, but Gomer's recipe of Duco glue and acetone is easier and just as good. It won't look wet, it won't yellow, it actually stabilizes the piece. Elmer's just coats it and messes it up.

Joshua

 

[texaspoint]

These old fractures were diagnosed based upon two criteria: (1) the angle of .... treated with a diluted water-based acrylic polymer, and Elmer's glue was used to ... Bones we considered to be good candidates for DNA analysis, in contrast, ... R.50a, 97.R.16(MCc), micro-samples were taken from all of these bones. ...
www.nps.gov/archeology/kennewick/walker.HTM - Cached

http://www.cwreplicas.com/mastodon.html

not anything wroung with useing Elmer's glue .the big boys still use it.
thay use it on kennewick man

 

[The Grim Reaper]

You go right ahead and use Elmers and let your pieces turn yellow. I'll stick with what works best and that's either the Buvtar or the DUCO and Acetone. I like my pieces to remain as near to the way I found them as possible and this formula allows that.

 

[texaspoint]

lol old bone usely is yellow

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Most of the Bone Tools and Beads I find are bleached white, but you do whatever you want to your artifacts.

 

[joshuaream]

Yes, big boys use glue for gluing things, not for preserving bone.

The whole quote about Kennewick man was that they treated the teeth with an acrylic polymer (gloss) so they could make a mold of the teeth without having the mold stick, and they used Elmer's glue to repair a couple of broken bones on the skull. They didn't soak the bones in glue and water.

"The neurocranium and some of the teeth were also treated with a diluted water-based acrylic polymer, and Elmer's glue was used to repair the cranium and mandible." (repair, not preserve.)

I don't know the guy who did the mastodon, but he used buvtar on the important parts and then probably decided to use elmers on the jaw because they didn't want to inhale acetone fumes all day long. I'm not trying to slam the guy, but since I can see his bbq grill on his deck while he's preserving the jaw outside on his porch, I'm guessing he doesn't have access to lab equipment. Big bones are tough to do.

I'm sure you are set in your ways, but I really hope other readers here don't follow your advice because it is completely and categorically bad advice...

These old fractures were diagnosed based upon two criteria: (1) the angle of .... treated with a diluted water-based acrylic polymer, and Elmer's glue was used to ... Bones we considered to be good candidates for DNA analysis, in contrast, ... R.50a, 97.R.16(MCc), micro-samples were taken from all of these bones. ...
www.nps.gov/archeology/kennewick/walker.HTM - Cached

http://www.cwreplicas.com/mastodon.html

not anything wroung with useing Elmer's glue .the big boys still use it.
thay use it on kennewick man

 

[texaspoint]

I'm not trying to slam the guy, but since I can see his bbq grill on his deck while he's preserving the jaw outside on his porch, I'm guessing he doesn't have access to lab equipment.

[ the guy your lol at here,is the same guy ,you left a link for on the eggstone

Here's another site with some great photos. Check out the one about 2/3 of the way down identified as "a monster quartzite bola stone" 3&1/2" long, weighing 1.2 lbs.

http://www.paleoenterprises.com/museumnew3.htm

Anyway, that's my opinion on what you have. Nice piece of rock, whatever it is.
[/quote]
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=7f9351455295dfc722f362c9353953d8&topic=343454.0
silly

 

[texaspoint]

lol , he puts down his own info.

 

[DemonCatSpaceStar]

Just a question but has anyone tried using Mod Podge ( puzzle sealer) that you get from places like Hobby Lobby or craft stores?
Wondering if that would work no mixing involved.

Thx

 

[Harry Pristis]

The practice of consolidating bone comes up again and again in fossil-collecting forums. Don't apply white glue to fossil bones as a consolidant, and don't use it on bone artifacts.

Be certain to read what 'oilshale', a polymer chemist, has to say below. This is from a fossil forum:

"Here is a workable technique for consolidating fossils.

"Polyurethane will not give the desired penetration of the fossil. Putting polyurethane on a fossil is usually a bad idea.

"I recommend against white glue (polyvinyl acetate) as a consolidant because there are better materials available. (Normal prep lab dilution of white glue is one part water to two parts glue.) Rarely, a specimen cannot be dried without it crumbling, and white glue is the only reasonable answer. In my experience, white glue is messy and never looks good when the specimen is fully-prepared.

"A much better material for bone is a polyvinyl butyral plastic such as Butvar-76, but that material is hard to find in small quantities. I have used this plastic, dissolved in acetone, for many types of fossils. (I have used it successfully on Silurian-age shales with brachiopods, for example.) It penetrates well, and in the proper dilution it produces a "damp-looking" finish with no gloss.

"Butvar-76 (but not other Butvar varieties) is also soluble in alcohol. (I assume that is denatured alcohol that you can buy in gallon cans.) I have never tried this solution for consolidation. The alcohol takes considerably longer to boil off the treated specimen.

"So, what works best? [most convenient, if you don't have Butvay-76] I recommend a solution of Duco Cement (clear, like model airplane glue) in acetone.

"Dilution? Start with a tube of glue dissolved in about eight ounces of acetone in a glass jar. Shake well.

"Adjust the dilution with more acetone until, after shaking, the tiniest air bubbles are just slightly retarded in their rise to the surface.

"I usually heat specimens with an infra-red lamp to drive off moisture just before dipping the fossil. I do this with all sorts of fossils, and have never had one damaged by the heating. The untreated specimen is always at least as wet at the relative humidity of the air around it, I suppose. (A microwave oven may be as effective, but I've only dried glass beads for my air-abrasive unit.)

"Do NOT heat the acetone solution directly. The acetone solution will get warm after dipping a number of heated fossils. You must have good ventilation to deal with the fumes!

"I use a long-jawed forceps -- ten-inch tweezers, really -- to dip and/or retreive the fossils from the jar.

"Ideally, you would submerge the dry specimen in this consolidant for a brief time (say 15-30 seconds, or until the specimen stops fizzing). Set each wet specimen aside to dry on cardboard (I use beer-flats).

"For a specimen too thick to be submerged, you can use a turkey-baster to flood the difficult areas. I treated an adult mammoth tibia that, because of its size, I dried in the Florida sun, then used the baster to pump consolidant into every opening of the bone.

"I use a RubberMaid-type cake-pan to hold the consolidant for this soaking step - that plastic seems to be impervious to the acetone. Get 'em at your local dollar-store.

"Acetone evaporates very quickly. Replenish the consolidant mixture with a bit of acetone if you are using it on many specimens. Store it in a tightly sealed glass jar. Even if some acetone evaporates away between uses (it always does, it seems), you can reconstitute the solution by replacing the acetone.

"Acetone is a nasty solvent. The fumes are explosive. The fumes are toxic. The liquid penetrates the skin-blood barrier. It's best to use gloves. Use in a well-ventilated area.

--------------Harry Pristis"

Here's what 'oilshale' had to say about white glue:

"Don't get me wrong - Elmer's White glue is a great stuff for glueing wood and can be also great for "hardening" crumbly fossils!

"But I fully agree with Harry's opinion (even so I am a polymer chemist and my job is to develop white glues and other latices....): I would never use a white glue unless the fossil is wet, crumbly and the substrate is porous and can't be dried before consilidation!

"There is no way to remove this white glue once dried (not even with solvent). It will form a dense polymer layer on the surface without penetrating much into the substrate (white glue are tiny polymer particles dispersed in water with a particle size of around 1µm, so the penetration depth won't be much).

"Butvar, a Polyvinyl butyrate (the company I am working in is also producing these polymers, of course different brand names) in this respect is much better (will penetrate better and can easily be removed by solvents).

"I do have a couple of fossil fish which were mistreated by someone else in such a way. Since the substrate was almost nonporous (diatomaceous earth!) and quite soft (and may be also the amount of white glue and concentration used was too high) there is now a thick slightly yellowish polymer film on top. Unfortunately, this is not all: The film shrinks and now peels off (with bones attached to the polymer film of course)!

Thomas"

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Thank you Harry. You helped prove our point about Elmers Glue.