Was this US Civil War buckle shot?*************** UPDATE************

[tsgman]

I dug this early in 06. I think it was shot. I found a photo of a shot breast plate in a relic id book and it looks very similar to my US plate. What do you guy's think. And how rare is it to find a shot US plate? How much in value can it increase. The strange thing is it appears the bullet struck it from the back side. It is easy to see the impact was from the back side. If the soldiers were using it for target practice wouldn't they shoot it from the front? If someone was wearing this when hit then they were shot in the back. I hate to think that happened. Of the 3 US plates I dug from this area, the back side of this one is darker, like it might be stained. I was watching the Natl Geographic Channel about the 5000 year old body they found in the mountains. They found a arrowhead that struck him along with blood cells still on his clothing. Maybe I have been watching to much CSI?

 

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[tsgman]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

Unusal. If it was bullet damaged, it came from the back. Those minies had a lot of force behind them, one of the reasons there were so many arms and legs amputated during the war. Those big ole slugs would shatter the bone into fragments, forcing them to remove the limb to reduce the risk of gangrene. I would definatly think if a minie would shatter a thigh bone, it would more than easily go all the way through the abdomen even if it hit the spine. Was the place you found it a battle site, or a camp ?

Most definiately was a camp. although research mentioned numerous skirmishes in every direction. I suppose I am inclined to believe the owner of this buckle was not shot in the back. The thing that bothers me is it was shot from the backside. How many of us would have set the buckle backwards instead of aiming at the letters? The dark color of the lead on the back is also strange, as any CW relic hunter knows old lead turns white. A mystery that may never be known. I almost feel like having it checked for blood samples, is that being to wierd?

 

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[Pulltab Parson]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

I don't think its weird, you might be on to something there. At the least you would know one way or the other whether or not he (the owner of the buckle) was shot or not. If there was any blood on the buckle that would give a pretty good indication as to where that gaping hole came from.

 

[TxTim]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

Man....
Gut shot from the back side.
What a way to go.

Who said he died?

I'd put money on his demise.
Even if he survived, there was a 99% chance he died from infection.
Most deaths were from infections in the civil war - even from relatively minor casualties.

 

[Gribnitz]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

The dark color of the lead on the back is also strange, as any CW relic hunter knows old lead turns white.
[/quote]

Nah, when the lead starts to get crumbly on the back of those plates, the real lead color starts to show through from under the patina. Mine looked like that too, so did JD's when he found it. This missouri soil is hard on a lot of relics, including those thin lead castings. That is a good sign that you found it in the nick of time. Much more time under ground, and there wouldn't be much left.

 

[brnn53]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

Maybe the belt the plate was on got reversed in haste. Nice find none the less!
Mike

 

[tsgman]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

The dark color of the lead on the back is also strange, as any CW relic hunter knows old lead turns white.

Nah, when the lead starts to get crumbly on the back of those plates, the real lead color starts to show through from under the patina. Mine looked like that too, so did JD's when he found it. This missouri soil is hard on a lot of relics, including those thin lead castings. That is a good sign that you found it in the nick of time. Much more time under ground, and there wouldn't be much left.
[/quote] Yes, now that I think about it I have found several bullets that had a dark brown crud on them. Usually when they are under leaves on the forest floor, still I will always wonder so I might get it checked for blood anyway. Thanks Grib and thanks to all for the input. Happy Valentines Day, Tim

 

[j.d. in the usa]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

hey bud i love that plate... put a round ball or .69 in the hole... see if it comes close to the shape and size of the hit. I cant wait to be able to hunt again!! hh jd

 

[allen]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

shot or not, still an awesome find...

 

[bongo1962]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

I would run my MD'er up the tree to see if the tree caught any collateral damage.

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

Do to the area I live in I have not personally dug any of these types of buckles, but I do have a few opinions.

1) Not knowing the type of metal, but guessing brass, I would have to say that in order for a bullet to penetrate a brass buckle from the back, first passing through the torso, the unfortunate soldier would have to have been shot at POINT BLANK range. ALthough this is not impossible I would think it unlikely. An assasination would most likely be a shot to the head, so this is not likely either.

2) Target practice is a possiblilty, but the bullet would still have to penetrate the metal, so wouldn't it still need to be shot at close range?

 

[Skrimpy]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

I have an uncle that took a three ringer to the chest at the Battle of the Wilderness and lived. He passed away in Port Jefferson, NY on Long Island 1899. It's tough to live even with todays medicine if you get hit in the chest with a rifle shot. It must have gone right through him and not hit any vital organs. Can you imagine having one of those things dug out of your chest without anesthesia? marone!

 

[tsgman]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

I have an uncle that took a three ringer to the chest at the Battle of the Wilderness and lived. He passed away in Port Jefferson, NY on Long Island 1899. It's tough to live even with todays medicine if you get hit in the chest with a rifle shot. It must have gone right through him and not hit any vital organs. Can you imagine having one of those things dug out of your chest without anesthesia? marone!

I would imagine very few soldiers lived after getting hit in the torso. If you were hit with a 69 caliber, you probably die. The smaller caliber 54, 57 you probably will die also. But those 69 caliber bullets are huge.

 

[Skrimpy]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

I have an uncle that took a three ringer to the chest at the Battle of the Wilderness and lived. He passed away in Port Jefferson, NY on Long Island 1899. It's tough to live even with todays medicine if you get hit in the chest with a rifle shot. It must have gone right through him and not hit any vital organs. Can you imagine having one of those things dug out of your chest without anesthesia? marone!

I would imagine very few soldiers lived after getting hit in the torso. If you were hit with a 69 caliber, you probably die. The smaller caliber 54, 57 you probably will die also. But those 69 caliber bullets are huge.

His service record doesn't say what caliber it was. It just says that he was hit in the chest with a minie ball and suffered pretty much the rest of his life something like 36 years.

 

[99Brown]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

Sweet find...shot or not. WTG!!

 

[tsgman]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

I saw on another site a guy dug some metal plate he says was body armor, the sutlers sold it to the soldiers. They would discard it when they had to march. The weight was such that they just couldn't carry it. I read about a CS guy who was at the battle of Springfield, Mo. Marmaduke and Shelby were attacking Fort #4. They had been egaged with some of the Union Cav. During a lull one of the CS rode his horse across towards the enemy. He charged them and than turned back to his own lines, but before it he got back he took a bullet in the back. After the fight they found he had a large frying pan over his chest under his clothes. It was a pretty good idea untill he turned around and went with his back exposed. Tsgman

 

[warsawdaddy]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

My G'G'Grandfather died at the age of 96 with 2 mini-balls still in him.He was shot at the battle of Lone Jack(MO).

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,61476.0.html

 

[tsgman]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

Ron, thanks for that info! I enjoyed that story. It as hard for us to imagine how hard a life it was back then. They were a tough bunch. The average CW soldier back than was around 5'8" tall and weighed under 150 lbs. If you can imagine fighting and marching day after day sometimes with very litle to eat or drink! They were all tough as a old boot. My GG Grandfather was in the Mo. 24th Inf. I know of a few Reeds that were in that outfit. They were mainly Greene Co. men. Any of them related? Tsg

 

[Wildfirefighter72]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

I think it is a great find! Also would think it possible for the bullet to pass through. Even if the hole does not match up, I would assume the lead would have mushroomed out some passing through the body before it hit the buckle causing an even bigger hole in the buckle... Thanks for sharing it with us.

 

[warsawdaddy]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

Tsgman - Those Reeds not related that I know of.My Reeds were all Southern Sympathizers,including Solomon.Like the story said,he got conscripted into the union when he went to town.His brothers wouldn't talk to him for a long time afterwards.

 

[Skrimpy]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

My G'G'Grandfather died at the age of 96 with 2 mini-balls still in him.He was shot at the battle of Lone Jack(MO).

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,61476.0.html

That's pretty interesting. My GG Grandfather was a volly in the 120th NY Company A...storied Infantry regiment, Kingston NY blah blah blah (meaning he didn't spend much time with the Regiment). He was transferred to the 73rd NY stationed in Albany at Ira Harris Hospital. He had frequent seizures according to the pension file as a result of sunstroke from working in the midday heat near Washington. His brother was the one that was hit with the three ringer (he was also in the 120th company A). He had one other brother that also signed up at age 16 in Staten Island as a drummer boy but was told by a superior to lie about his age so he could fight. He was in Shermans Brigade...I can't remember the Regiment 125th, maybe 75th NY? Cant remember. He was accused of highway robbery while in Louisana or Alabama or some such thing...he took arty shrapnel to the foot while getting water from a well. All three of the brothers died on Long Island 1899, 1924, and my gg grandfather in 1930 at the ripe age of 88...that was a long time for 1930, especially having seizures just about once a month. If he had modern medicine I bet he would have made at least a buck...maybe a buck 10.