Was this US Civil War buckle shot?*************** UPDATE************

[tsgman]

I dug this early in 06. I think it was shot. I found a photo of a shot breast plate in a relic id book and it looks very similar to my US plate. What do you guy's think. And how rare is it to find a shot US plate? How much in value can it increase. The strange thing is it appears the bullet struck it from the back side. It is easy to see the impact was from the back side. If the soldiers were using it for target practice wouldn't they shoot it from the front? If someone was wearing this when hit then they were shot in the back. I hate to think that happened. Of the 3 US plates I dug from this area, the back side of this one is darker, like it might be stained. I was watching the Natl Geographic Channel about the 5000 year old body they found in the mountains. They found a arrowhead that struck him along with blood cells still on his clothing. Maybe I have been watching to much CSI?

 

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[tsgman]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

Skrimpy, thats a neat deal that you know your family history like that. Thats one of the things that got me interested in relic hunting was all the Civil War history in my family. My GG Grandfather was Union, his two brothers CS. They were devided over it untill they died. The CS brothers added s to the end of thier name over it. Tsgman

 

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[Nana40]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

I don't know Gman...all the possibilities. I say it wouldn't hurt anything to have it tested...it would satisfy your curiosity. Awesome find!

Nana

 

[Hardy]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

I would think that finding any blood traces would be long degrated from the soil conditions that exist in a moist climate .

 

[Skrimpy]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

Skrimpy, thats a neat deal that you know your family history like that. Thats one of the things that got me interested in relic hunting was all the Civil War history in my family. My GG Grandfather was Union, his two brothers CS. They were devided over it untill they died. The CS brothers added s to the end of thier name over it. Tsgman

Got all this from the 3 pension file investigations. Go to nara.gov and request the FULL pension file for your Union vet relative. The FULL pension file will be about twice as much money (I think 30-40 bucks)but WELL worth it...it will include affidavits from friends and relatives and give annecdotal evidence of their relationships with one and other. The investigations for the most part go into some pretty intricate detail because of Widows pensions claims. My gg grandfather married twice but his pension file has information in it regarding his first wife who died before he even applied for a pension. They had to investigate the first wife's death to confirm the second wife was legally married to him...prove she was dead and where she was buried etc etc. You can find all sorts of neat stuff in those pension files. A lot of the time it will mention parents names, kids names, siblings names, birth dates, death dates, marriage dates etc. Very valuable tool genealogically. They also document a lot of historical practices and events. I don't know if CSA soldiers collected or tried to collect pensions from their home states or from the Federal govt but you might be able to find something. Also, you can search, "Civil War Soldiers and Sailors System" on google. The nara web site maintains a database of all volunteer and enlisted Union soldiers and it has some confederates listed although I do not know if it has all of them, and it lists their Rank, Regiment, and Company which gives the NARA an easier time in finding the records, and you a faster turnover time to get them.

 

[tsgman]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

Skrimpy, thats a neat deal that you know your family history like that. Thats one of the things that got me interested in relic hunting was all the Civil War history in my family. My GG Grandfather was Union, his two brothers CS. They were devided over it untill they died. The CS brothers added s to the end of thier name over it. Tsgman

Got all this from the 3 pension file investigations. Go to nara.gov and request the FULL pension file for your Union vet relative. The FULL pension file will be about twice as much money (I think 30-40 bucks)but WELL worth it...it will include affidavits from friends and relatives and give annecdotal evidence of their relationships with one and other. The investigations for the most part go into some pretty intricate detail because of Widows pensions claims. My gg grandfather married twice but his pension file has information in it regarding his first wife who died before he even applied for a pension. They had to investigate the first wife's death to confirm the second wife was legally married to him...prove she was dead and where she was buried etc etc. You can find all sorts of neat stuff in those pension files. A lot of the time it will mention parents names, kids names, siblings names, birth dates, death dates, marriage dates etc. Very valuable tool genealogically. They also document a lot of historical practices and events. I don't know if CSA soldiers collected or tried to collect pensions from their home states or from the Federal govt but you might be able to find something. Also, you can search, "Civil War Soldiers and Sailors System" on google. The nara web site maintains a database of all volunteer and enlisted Union soldiers and it has some confederates listed although I do not know if it has all of them, and it lists their Rank, Regiment, and Company which gives the NARA an easier time in finding the records, and you a faster turnover time to get them.

Thanks for the info. Thats a great tip. I belong to the Ozark Genalogical Society in Springfield. I have found a lot of info about my family there. Thanks again. Tsgman


Here is the link to them http://www.rootsweb.com/~ozarksgs/libogs.htm

 

[Old Tom]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

tsgman - I agree with many of the others, that sure looks like it was shot. And it sure is fun wondreing how that happened. I read this post the other day and found myself just thinking about it. One of those things that makes this hobby fun. Was it a CSA soldiers shooting at it for practice. or was it in a very heated battle where bullets were flying every where.

Skrimpy - You sure have some great history on your family, sounds like you really put in a lot of time and research.
When reading your post it reminded me of a book I read many years ago. I think the name of it was " Civil War Diaries of Rice C Bull". Rice also enlisted in New York, if you have not read it, you might want to pick up a copy.
The part that your family history reminded me was Rice tells of a fellow soldier that was wounded in, if I remember right, the battle of Wilderness. His friend was also shot thru the chest, Rice goes on to tell how he searched the camp after the battle for a doctor, when he brought the doctor to his friend the doctor used a heated brass rod, pushing it thru the wound front to back I guess to clean it. They were all pleased that the the wounded soldier lived for over a year after that.

So I bet that belt plate could have been worn when it was shot, but I can't imagine how painful that would have been.

Did a net search on Rice C bull
Rice Cook Bull was born in 1842 in Hartford, Washington County, New York. He was a farm boy before the Civil War, enlisted in 1862 and served in the 123rd New York Volunteer Infantry
Amazon book
http://www.amazon.com/s?tag=treasurenet01-20

 

[warsawdaddy]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

Another sidenote;Many of the CW vets buried during the Depression times,were buried in family plots without a headstone.My g'g'grandfather in my post above was such a case.In 1996,my cousin and I started the paperwork and inquiries of the gov't.Took about 6mo,but they finally found all the historical documentation to back up everything we had told and sent to them and they provided a military headstone for him at no charge.It has all the correct data as to name,unit,dates etc.I would reccomend anyone with the same situation,to pursue it.The gov't owes it to them.

 

[tsgman]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

Another sidenote;Many of the CW vets buried during the Depression times,were buried in family plots without a headstone.My g'g'grandfather in my post above was such a case.In 1996,my cousin and I started the paperwork and inquiries of the gov't.Took about 6mo,but they finally found all the historical documentation to back up everything we had told and sent to them and they provided a military headstone for him at no charge.It has all the correct data as to name,unit,dates etc.I would reccomend anyone with the same situation,to pursue it.The gov't owes it to them.

Thats so funny you mention that, I did the same exact thing! I help to keep a small cemetery cleaned and mowed where my GG Granparents are buried in Battlefield Mo. I wondered to myself why My Grandfather did not have a military stone. He had a very nice stone, as tall as I am, and one for his wife as well. I contacted the Vets dept. and supplied them with the muster in and out info as well as my lineage to him. I received a beautiful granite stone in about 3 or 4 months. I was planning our family reunion that year so I made a stone dedication part of it. My pastor from my church spoke as well as A local historian. I gave some insight on his life and achievements. I had several Union reenactors that gave a 18 gun salute, I think it was 18. Anyway they let me join them and I used my muzzle loader, it was really neat. They had a nice photo and small article in the Springfield paper about it.

 

[tsgman]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

Forgot the 18 gun salute pic. Tsgman

 

[The Seeker]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

Hey Tsgman.........If I were an expert on Civil War Relics, I would say ..."Yes" But I not. So my amateur opinion is still..... yes. Anyway its a great find! WTG Keep up the good work!

 

[Nick in NEPA]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

Unusal. If it was bullet damaged, it came from the back. Those minies had a lot of force behind them, one of the reasons there were so many arms and legs amputated during the war. Those big ole slugs would shatter the bone into fragments, forcing them to remove the limb to reduce the risk of gangrene. I would definatly think if a minie would shatter a thigh bone, it would more than easily go all the way through the abdomen even if it hit the spine. Was the place you found it a battle site, or a camp ?

Most definiately was a camp. although research mentioned numerous skirmishes in every direction. I suppose I am inclined to believe the owner of this buckle was not shot in the back. The thing that bothers me is it was shot from the backside. How many of us would have set the buckle backwards instead of aiming at the letters? The dark color of the lead on the back is also strange, as any CW relic hunter knows old lead turns white. A mystery that may never be known. I almost feel like having it checked for blood samples, is that being to wierd?

If there's blood there you could go back there dig him up and post him on TNet.LOL

 

[Ed-NH]

Re: Was this US Civil War buckle shot? It looks like it was to me. Tsgman

Wow I don't know what to tell you about it but I absolutely love it! I would love to find one someday. That is such a cool relic to find. I am going to say that the chunk taken out looks pretty big but who knows what would have happened on impact right

 

[tsgman]

On the Travel Channel show last Tuesday Becky the host of the show Americas best places to find cash and treasure visited the Civil War Life Museum in Fredericksburg Va. She was shown a US belt buckle that was damaged by being shot. I am posting photos of his buckle for comparison. The museum director, Terry Thomann boldly claimed that the soldier who the buckle belonged to was killed. That statement set me back somewhat because that is only speculation on his part. He also stated that a battle damaged us buckle is worth 10 times the normal value. Becky asked him what it was worth he said $2000.00! The only thing is his buckle is so shiny and seems much less worn than mine, but the area where it was shot is almost exactly how mine is damaged. Granted a large battle was fought there and where I found mine only has documentation of small skirmishes. Once again I ask what do you all think. Tsgman

 

[tsgman]

I will post my buckle photos again for comparison. Tsgman

 

[1liquigirl]

Shot or not, it's still a nice relic, Tsgman. Waiting to see if any blood turns up on testing. Thanks for posting it.

 

[TreasureTales]

Tsgman, your volunteer work at the cemetery is very commendable. Good for you to do that! The time and effort you put into getting a CW headstone for your gggrandfather is also commendable. That was an awesome and honorable thing to do for him.

Maybe your belt plate was that of a deserters and he was shot as he ran off during battle. That would add even more intrigue, would it not? Great relic, whatever the reason for the hole.

 

[Clam Digga]

How about an Indians hatchet swung at a solider nicking his abdomen and damaging the belt buckle ?

It doesn't hafta be a bullet. That would somewhat explain the burring coming from the backside.

What do I know?.... I'm just a Clam Digga

Still an intriguing item.

 

[JerV3]

Nice finds Ts,

Looks like a shot one to me. I was just watching a show the other night on civil war artifacts. The guy showed a shot buckle just like yours. He said it was worth five times what a whole one was worth.

He also said it would have been a fatal hit. They had no means of help for woulds to the abdomine at that time. So that buckle is probably worth over a 1000.00.

HH Jer

 

[Montana Jim]

Have you considered a formal certification on the buckle? There has to be an expert out there someplace... they sure can tell if buckles are replicas or "fakes" with bullets in them.

 

[sparkymaster]

I think it's been shot.

NICE FIND!!!