What type.......would you call one of my Best 10 point finds..........

[Keokukjeff]

What type point would you say this was from these types found at the site
1-Dalton-Breckenridge
2-Graham Cave
3-White River................
I got my number picked and will say later why......it gets easy to see the type after a while...!!,but take a vote on a number,to which you think it is 1-2-or 3..............

 

[Neanderthal]

It's a White River, but you can call it whatever you want :-)

 

[joshuaream]

In Kentucky I would call it an exhausted middle to late Big Sandy, but I think they stopped using that type in that neck of the woods. White River makes sense as well.

Pretty point, I like the twist.

 

[Keokukjeff]

Show one other or
some other White River points............................
serrated or otherwise.................
But what ever....................
I'am interesting in what other people have to say about it......
I know what you think it is..........
You know what I think it is ..............
I will splip it Don Dickson and see what he says it is................
Then BOOM we will both be wrong............har
You think
It will would be interesting to hear Don......if he says White I will say White...............
Any other guess it dont mater what you call it....................its a darn nice beveled serrated point,with a very concave base on one side stem...................a little ear-nick

 

[Keokukjeff]

In Kentucky I would call it an exhausted middle to late Big Sandy, but I think they stopped using that type in that neck of the woods. White River makes sense as well.

Pretty point, I like the twist.

Cool 2 for White..............a Middle Archaic point at best...that lasted 1000 years
So I need to know right off.......................what seperates this style flaking and resharpening from
say a Early Archaic style.........................type
What do you see I dont in flaking ................form,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,anything................what makes it a White River point..............?

 

[11KBP]

A well-used White River.

 

[joshuaream]

I was flipping through my Archaic Societies book since it's about the only thing on hand with info on the Ozarks, were White River points beveled? What's left of the base and the notches looks spot on White River, having been used to exhaustion in right for the type, but the book talks about them being unbeveled.

 

[11KBP]

were White River points beveled?

Yes they were.

 

[Neanderthal]

What's left of the base and the notches looks spot on White River, having been used to exhaustion in right for the type, but the book talks about them being unbeveled.

It's backwards. The Graham Cave aren't beveled and White River are usually heavily beveled after several resharpenings. The Graham Cave are a little northward, but they share a similar age. In fact, on some spots they (Graham Cave & White River)have been found together . There are 3 distinguishable forms of White River. The most common being the Round-Lobed variety, which are often mistaken for Hempstead. The type shown, in my opinion, is the most aesthetically appealing.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I say you have a serrated Dalton there, especially considering the area you are from.........

Here is a link to some examples......Check out #15323 http://www.relicshack.com/List.aspx?TypeId=2

Nice find..........

 

[jpitt1970]

I was gonna say Dalton, but Treasure_Hunter beat me to it,. Could it also maybe be a kirk??
sweet, whatever the concensus is.

Jon

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I was gonna say Dalton, but Treasure_Hunter beat me to it,. Could it also maybe be a kirk??
sweet, whatever the concensus is.

Jon

I am by no means an expert, but I would say not a Kirk, 99% sure it is a Dalton............

 

[jpitt1970]

I was gonna say Dalton, but Treasure_Hunter beat me to it,. Could it also maybe be a kirk??
sweet, whatever the concensus is.

Jon

I am by no means an expert, but I would say not a Kirk, 99% sure it is a Dalton............

Don't claim to be an expert either, just a suggestion. Alot of people in my experience call just about anything serrated a Kirk, depending on the area they were found. That's why I like this board,.

dangit, anytime I hit the period my comma goes too

 

[Keokukjeff]

I say you have a serrated Dalton there, especially considering the area you are from.........

Here is a link to some examples......Check out #15323 http://www.relicshack.com/List.aspx?TypeId=2

Nice find..........

BOOOOOOOOOOOOM................
I have always went back and forth on that number!

 

[Keokukjeff]

I'am in Breckenridge Dalton mood too guys........
Matt I can understand the beveled White River point.........but they were used during the Calf Creek period......................so White River have heat-treated beveled points with round ears there.....
When you see them all together you can see the Cossatot Flaking on them...........
It is rare enough to see Cossatot River Drill.......and the heart stopping Calf Creek Drill shown on here,,,,,,,,,,,A White River Drill would be rare..............but I cant see it.......or any in all my broken<did you see the eared points on treasure depot.........................some are White,Breckenridge,Graham.............its a mess in that area with 20 points that need I.D.
Big Sandy points are Rare Drill finds.................are the not......
Breckenridge is my #1
The point is in the old insitu Online..........I have had it about
-5 years...............

 

[11KBP]

I am by no means an expert, but I would say not a Kirk, 99% sure it is a Dalton............

I am 99% sure it's not a Dalton.

I can see where a heavily resharpened White River can look similar to a Breckenridge Dalton however you must envision the base of the White River before the extensive resharpening took place.

The resharpening of Jeff’s artifact has almost eliminated the notches and in turn dramatically changed the appearance of what the original point looked like.

 

[Hippy]

I would definitely agree with White River. If White River and Graham caves are essentially cousins and probably the same age then it makes perfect sense they would have Dalton characteristics. In Graham Cave Rock Shelter Graham Cave points were found in a layer just above Dalton points. Some characteristics of each lie in both point types.

Also, it's interesting to know that we find both beveled and bifacially resharpened points on the same sites. Hardins, thebes, and doves are most often bevel resharpend while Graham Caves, Stilwells, and Heavy Duty points aren't. I've always wondered why someone would choose beveling over bifacially resharpening. I would assume maybe a different use?

Hippy

 

[Neanderthal]

Here's a pic that I took today and thought you'd get a kick out of. These White River came out of Perino's personal collection. I'd have to double check his documentation, but I believe the top one was found in OK, the bottom one in Ark.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Here's a pic that I took today and thought you'd get a kick out of. These White River came out of Perino's personal collection. I'd have to double check his documentation, but I believe the top one was found in OK, the bottom one in Ark.

No arguement on those two being White River, and both are beautiful points at that,
I personally still believe the one here is a Dalton.....but that is just my personal opinion is all........
I have been wrong before.
my first wife turned out to be "The Wicked Witch Of The West"

Breckenridge Dalton

 

[Neanderthal]

TH - You can think of the Breckenridge as a "Western Greenbrier". Notice how they really don't have notches on the side, but have outward flowing ears / auricles? The White River has side notches (disregarding the lobed variety in this instance), like the Graham Cave. Whenever they get resharpened down, they will lose the blade width and the top of the "notch". Look close at the image of Jeff's and you will see the intact side of the hafting area is parallel sided, it was side notched.

The White River is a very old point. They share a similar age with late Daltons, and also with Rice Lobed (which they also tend to get confused with).