what would you do w/ the ldm if ya found it?

[Snoopy Cat]

i mean if it is in the wilderness area how would you make enough cash to be set for the rest of your life? i am just curious cause alot of people talk about it all the time. i would really expect not to work another day in my life if i found the thing.and dont tell me its just about THE FINDING of it that you would be satisfied

 

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[somehiker]

Personally,I don't know,not having looked for or found it.
But for one group it's apparently already been done..........http://www.thelostdutchmangoldmine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1122
Successfully.

Regards:SH.

 

[cactusjumper]

Wayne,

I don't know if it's the LDM but, IMHO, it had enough evidence around it to warrant the question. Jesse told us all that he believed it was the Lost Dutchman. I know a number of other Dutch Hunters who also believe it's Waltz's mine.

Take care,

Joe

 

[EE THr]

CJ---

Sounds interesting.

Where there ever any clues that indicated the "10 miles due East of Weaver's Needle" location?

What clues did he go by to look for the LDM there? What evidence substantiates it as the LDM?

 

[somehiker]

CJ---

Sounds interesting.

Where there ever any clues that indicated the "10 miles due East of Weaver's Needle" location?

What clues did he go by to look for the LDM there? What evidence substantiates it as the LDM?

EE:

I think most of your questions are discussed in the postings there.

Joe:

I really don't have a strong opinion one way or the other,but see more reasons nay than yea.
Much of the search,I think for all involved,has been a process of collecting and trying to validate the many clues to the location.
Over time,the number of clues has grown to over 100,many I think added by the seekers themselves,based on what they found within their own search areas.
Some of the clues applicable to this mine are good ones,though.The gunsight view,the board house,the two room house in the cave...etc,so I can understand why some agree with Ron.

Regards:Wayne

 

[cactusjumper]

Wayne,

Unfortunately, I have seen many "Dutch Hunters" come down the pike with "new" clues. Much of it is made up out of whole cloth, sometimes using the history or topography of the Superstitions to lend some weight to their stories. Some of this stuff has been admitted to me by the people who created these false trails. Some of the stories have come from "friends" of the perp's, who were with them while such "clues" were created.

There have been many such stories and clues put forth by people who are trying to build reputations of being authorities on all things Dutchman. I have had personal contact with such creative Dutch Hunters. It's been a real learning experience for me.

The biggest reason for my belief that the "Silver Chief" pit mine is the LDM, has more to do with who actually found it and showed the mine to the folks who worked it. There are many background stories connected to that mine than most people know. I have revealed many of them, but some will never be told.

Take care,

Joe

 

[EE THr]

OK, then let me put it this way---

CJ, which of the popular clues do you have reason to believe aren't true? (I'm not asking for reasons or names or anything like that.)

 

[cactusjumper]

EE,

Wow!!!! That's a tall order for this failing memory.

I would have serious doubts concerning any NEW evidence in Helen Corbin's "Bible" and Thomas Glover's books....that came by way of Kraig Roberts.

Both authors were shown a lot of "historical documentation" that was faked. I have a lot of respect for Helen and Thomas' work, but we were ALL fooled.....for a number of years.

Now here's a warning for everyone. While I have seen the true evidence for the above statements, my conclusions are personal opinion that is shared by (almost) every person who has seen the same evidence. Don't believe anything you hear about the LDM and the clues to its location.

Don't trust anyone's word........including mine. Do your own research and develop your own sources.

I still believe Waltz had a rich gold mine in the Supe's, but I am sick of the deceit that has followed his death. In my opinion, the truth has been buried under a massive amount of lies. For that reason, I find myself less and less interested in the current discussions of the legend.

If anyone has a specific question concerning my opinions on certain clues, or areas in the mountains, I will be happy to reply.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Springfield]

.... Don't trust anyone's word........including mine. Do your own research and develop your own sources. ....

Thanks Joe. All truth seekers need to understand this point. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but even the most dedicated researchers are almost always wrong.

 

[EE THr]

Joe---

Thanks for your opinions. I had about the same opinion a while back, and that's why I switched to studying the maps that are online from the Apache Junction Public Library. I felt that even though all the publicly available maps could be hoaxes, since it seemed that they were drawn at different times by mostly different people, there might be something there that they had in common. The thing is, they are mostly not of the LDM, but supposedly show "old Spanish or Mexican mines," which some presume the LDM to be one of.

Since all of the clues are, at best, second hand and thus subject to alteration (either intentional or unintentional), and at worst entirely fabricated, someone would need clues to which clues might be more accurate. And that is a very iffy proposition.

I thought that the "pit and tunnel" clues, which seem to have some validity due to their many sources, would be a good confirmation of the true LDM, until I read De re Metallica, with several pictures and descriptions of their common mine configurations. It appears that there could be many such combinations in any area where "knowledgeable" mining professionals, in those olden days, worked. So that part doesn't excite me much anymore.

Until someone publishes whatever real evidence they might have, and are holding private, I don't think anything convincing will show up in an online forum, as to the whereabouts or confirming evidence of, the Lost Dutchman Mine.

But until then, the opinions of those most experienced in the history and actual exploration of the area, are very interesting, and will have to do....

Thanks again,
EE

 

[cactusjumper]

EE,

I used to think there was no value in dismissing any story or clues, out of hand. Assume they are all as pure as the driven snow, and check them out as much as possible. What happened to Helen and Thomas certainly changed my mind on that issue. Just how many fictional stories and clues do you waste your time on.

These days, when I think I know the facts.......I double check myself. When I find out I was wrong, I don't live the lie but tell folks the truth, apologize and move on.

Many treasures have been found over the years. Don't give up hope, but keep your eyes and mind open.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Jimmshoe,

To get back to your question........I always said I would buy a piece of land or an old mine, move the ore into it, and
"find" a new vein. Just a wild guess, but that's probably what the people who worked the "Silver Chief" pit mine did. The logistics are probably not feasible.....for most of us.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

Jimmshoe:

I think what Joe has said in his replies makes a lot of sense,and has more truth than most of what has been written about the LDM.
My first reply to your question was meant as an example of what has been done illegally under camouflage.
Now here is an example of what has been done...and documented legally.

http://www.dutchhunter.com/

Regards:SH.

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

Hello

I just wanted to chime in on this topic. Joe's idea seems to be the only one I've come across that makes any sense. It would seem, from my research, one of the only ways to be able to keep what you find would be to have a claim somewhere else.

Keep this in mind though, if someone is claiming to have found the Lost Dutchman Mine, they have already broken the law. The mine is supposed to be covered, and it's illegal to dig.

Thanks
Travis

 

[somehiker]

Travis:
But it could be one of the first lies told as well.That the mine had been covered.
Simply a claim made originally in order to discourage others from looking,and compounded by those who added their own fantasies about Apaches doing the same with the Peralta mines.I suspect the only mines which have been "covered" out there,are the ones in popular hiking areas which have been filled in by the Forestry Service.

Regards:SH.

ps: If anyone were to find the LDM,perhaps he could supplement his income by selling rich pieces of ore to other folks who could then claim to have found it.

 

[coazon de oro]

DD,

There is no proof that the mine remains covered. A lot can happen in 120 years. Animals are exempt from the digging laws. If you find the mine just get a bear suit and have your friend film you digging (without a shovel). When you get through act scared and walk away (on all fours). Make sure it's not a Polar bear suit.

Don Jose would need to go with the coyote suit to pull this off.

Seriously, just use a heat sensing camera to look where you may think the mine is covered. With a 14 foot shaft, 4 feet of cedar, and 2 feet of rock & dirt, the temperature difference should be very revealing.

Homar

 

[Springfield]

.....Seriously, just use a heat sensing camera to look where you may think the mine is covered. With a 14 foot shaft, 4 feet of cedar, and 2 feet of rock & dirt, the temperature difference should be very revealing...

Not as revealing as you'd think. Many folks have had the same idea about this technology and also ground penetrating radar to find 'voids'. These folks have, in general, burnt a lot of money with no results.

There are many variables involved with the temperature gradient technology. The first one is the machine's sensitivity. The stuff the home improvement folks use (window leakage, etc) is the lowest sensitivity and cheapest (still pricey though). For geotech use, you'll need more top of the line, and unless you're loaded with $$, you probably won't be able to afford it. Then there is the problem of the temperature gradient itself. If the opening is indeed open to the air, you may have a chance to see it on the machine. Winter night time is the best time for detecting subsurface voids - the machines work best finding a warmer temperature against a cooler background. However, if the opening is covered, forget about it, it would take a miracle to find it - you'd have better luck with a dowser. Then there is the problem of your angle of approach and angle of coverage. The machine works best at right angles to the target and the closer the better. That's a lot of mountain to cover on foot, and helicopters aren't cheap or very efficient. To make matters worse, you've got the problem of false readings caused by any number of geologic, ambient temperature, time of day, vegetation and operator inefficiency factors. May as well hire an experienced professional operate the device while you're at it - they don't come cheap either. All this to find an alleged mine in a big mountain range that you can't even be sure ever existed. Good luck.

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

Hello,

You guys could very well be correct. The mine was never covered, or is no longer covered. I don't buy it though. The Petrasch/Thomas version say's Waltz covered it, and the way I read the Holmes version, they say Waltz covered it as well.

Couple that with the fact that no one has found it (no, i dont believe it's been discovered yet), and it's more than likely that it's still covered up, just like Waltz left it. A gaping hole would likely have been discovered by now.

If Waltz used Ironwood logs, there not going anywhere, especially since they're covered. At least not in the time span of 130 years.

Again, just my opinion based on my own research.

thanks again,
Travis

 

[cactusjumper]

Hi Travis,

"The Petrasch/Thomas version say's Waltz covered it, and the way I read the Holmes version, they say Waltz covered it as well."

The only "Petrasch/Thomas version" is written by Jim Bark and secondarily by Sims Ely. Neither man says Waltz covered the mine, and I don't trust anything written in the (so called) Holmes Manuscript, other than his own family history and personal search.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

Hi Travis,

"The Petrasch/Thomas version say's Waltz covered it, and the way I read the Holmes version, they say Waltz covered it as well."

The only "Petrasch/Thomas version" is written by Jim Bark and secondarily by Sims Ely. Neither man says Waltz covered the mine, and I don't trust anything written in the (so called) Holmes Manuscript, other than his own family history and personal search.

Take care,

Joe

Joe,

When you say the "only" Petrasch/Thomas version is written by Bark or Ely, I believe you should put "In my opinion" in front of that statement.

You have chosen to believe that only Ely or Bark could possibly have any "real" information, because they were speaking to the original sources of Petrasch and Thomas. You are not alone in this way of thinking, as many of the old timers think along the same lines.

There are other materials available that came directly from Rhiney, but if those arent public knowledge, then I'm not giving that up. Evidently I asked the right question about the right book at one time, and I'll keep that to myself.

For anyone else researching and reading this, i'll say it again, don't limit yourself to other peoples opinions of what's "real" or who's a "liar", cause they aint found it, so they aint no expert...... Think for yourself!!

Thanks again,
Travis