Why and how dowsing works

[angel_09]

This controversy about dowsing has been debated for long by pros and cons. I've done some research about this phenomena and this may or may not be conclusive to everybody where everyone is entitled to their own opinion....
Metal detector we use today are equipment derived from electromagnetic principles, where EMF is applied to loop of wire to generate magnetic field, amplified and provide informations through sight and sound. By expanding and collapsing this field, a secondary field of equal and opposite strenght is develop within the loop or link with another loop electromagnetically. This electromagnetic action and reaction is utilized by all type of metal detectors.
Dowsing on the other hand also operates on magnetic principle, but opposite and different to electromagnetic. The force involve is static electricity or static charge where it exist not only on conducting materials but also to non conducting materials such as plastics, papers , cellophanes and wools. The energy manifestation is visible and less energy or force is required to move these electrons. Unlike in electromagnetic effect, where electrons move to conduction band when force is applied, and collapsed or return back to its original shell when force is removed, electrons in static electricity on the other hand, build-up on the surface of the material and remain "charged" until it is discharged to opposite materials. This can be seen by static cling, fly-away hair or arc or spark when we touch something. this type of electricity exists in our body and serve as the "force" to drive electrons through rod and provide amplification for the atom of gold.
Since atoms are constantly vibrating and emitting radiation, a low frequency is develop and radiates in the infrared region. Neutrino bombardment from the sun increases the amplitude of this frequency and resonates with the frequency of the amplified atom from the dowsing rod. These two frequencies having the same wavelenght are interacting like "transmitter and reciever" where the manifestation is the movement of the rod.

Angel

 

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[JBlack]

This controversy about dowsing has been debated for long by pros and cons.? I've done some research about this phenomena and this? may or may not be conclusive to everybody where everyone is entitled to their own opinion....
Metal detector we use today are equipment derived from electromagnetic principles, where EMF is applied to loop of wire to generate magnetic field, amplified and provide informations through sight and sound. By expanding and collapsing this field, a secondary field of equal and opposite strenght is develop within the loop or link with another loop electromagnetically. This electromagnetic action and reaction is utilized by all type of metal detectors.
Dowsing on the other hand also operates on magnetic principle, but opposite and different to electromagnetic. The force involve is static electricity or static charge where it exist not only on conducting materials but also to non conducting materials such as plastics, papers , cellophanes and wools. The energy manifestation is visible and less energy or force is required to move these electrons. Unlike in electromagnetic effect, where electrons move to conduction band when force is applied, and collapsed or return back to its original shell when force is removed, electrons in static electricity on the other hand, build-up on the surface of the material and remain "charged" until it is discharged to opposite materials. This can be seen by static cling, fly-away hair or arc or spark when we touch something. this type of electricity exists in our body and serve as the "force" to drive electrons through rod and provide amplification for the atom of gold.
Since atoms are constantly vibrating and emitting radiation, a low frequency is develop and radiates in the infrared region. Neutrino bombardment from the sun increases the amplitude of this frequency and resonates with the frequency of the amplified atom from the dowsing rod. These two frequencies having the same wavelenght are interacting like "transmitter and reciever" where the manifestation is the movement of the rod.

Angel

Interesting... that's one theory of what makes the L-rods move. I've heard and read many other theories by several other dowsers... all claiming to have the one "correct" theory that melds well with their individual "belief system".

Can they all be right?

Are any of them right?​

What complicates "most" all of these theories is when the author borrows terminology from rational science and attempts to apply those terms to a pseudoscience. In general these terms already have clear-cut definitions, and these definitions have been proven through many thousands of trials and examples. When you use a pre-defined term, then the "definition" comes with the term, and if that definition can't be proven to be applied to the explanation (theory) in question; ---then the explanation itself is worthless and becomes just one more futile attempt at explaining pseudoscience with science terms.



To the best of my knowledge, the ONLY explanation of how or why the L-rods move involves a classic ideomotor response. This explanation has been proven to be correct. Much as we would like to involve magnetics, electromagnetics, static electricity or the like, none of these have EVER been shown (proven) to be a part of the explanation.

ps: It's nice to be back home, but Ophilia is pounding on my door.

 

[gldhntr]

quote from above from black........''To the best of my knowledge, the ONLY explanation of how or why the L-rods move involves a classic ideomotor response. This explanation has been proven to be correct. ''..................black, where might i find the research this proof came from ? or is it just to the best of YOUR knowledge ?...................................your pal, ...gldhntr

 

[angel_09]

It is true that most hunters are fitting their observations and experiences regarding the type of equipment htey are using, wether it is electronic detector or dowsing. In my case, before I understand dowsing, I do not believe that it is working; for the simple reason that nobody can give me a valid and logical reasoning. It just work and that's it, and with that it is unacceptable to me without any justification. So what I did, I started researching this phenomena, the what and why. (It all begins on 1986 when this dowsing introduced to me, I was very young then). and only now, year 2000 that I was able to piece things together. The process is not simple, not like " I'll hide it , you find it", because when you use this method, wether we like it or not, we are starting to use our ideomotor, forcing our mind to find the thing and there where the auto suggestion comes. My experiment is simple; I'll go to one place, use my tool, put gold in to it, and will find gold using this tool. We can call it luck but most of the time, I find gold by using this instrument. Actually, it is not only dowsing that I'm using. Once I find the area, I'll use my electronic detector to zero in the object. It cut my hunting time to 70%. The best evaluation we can put into an instrument is determine by its percentage of success. Just like any electronics detector, not because it can't find any substantial good object does'nt mean it is not effective. The effectivity of any equipment depends on its design, specs, and most of all to the users. One may say, " your instrument is not true", but i found gold more than my electronic detector... A dowser may say" your detector is not true" because he found gold more than an electronic detector can... Nevertheless, both instruments are usefull PROVIDED YOU HAVE GOOD RESULTS... IF NO RESULTS HAVE BEEN ACHIEVED A THOUSAND EXPLANATION IS NOT WORTH...

Angel

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey Angel.....IT WORKS FOR ME......thats what is important....Some of the most educated people in the would have tried to explain dowsing. They can't....All they can say is I think it works this way.How come all the dowsers are not rich? Thats an easy answer to me. I lack the drive and urge to didicate my money and time on large projects. In other words. I'm lazy......Art

 

[keniii]

Take a paper clip and tie sewing thread to it. Rest your elbow on a table, hold the loose end of the thread with your fingers and let the paper clip swing like a pendulum right above the table. Then hold still and try not to move your arm at all. Now visualize that the pendulum swings back and forth, but do not move your arm! It will eventually move. The reason is not at all magic. What happens is called an ideomotoric effect, which is a subconscious movement governed indirectly by your expectations rather than conscious muscle activity. Since the ideomotoric effect causes such minute muscle motion, a sensitive instrument helps to make the effect clearly visible. This is where unstable systems are expedient. A very small movement away from equilibrium causes great fluctuations in the system. Guess why dowsing rods seem to move all by themselves! They don't.

 

[ZumbroKid]

To explain something like this dowsing is very hard to do, many things in life are difficult to explain due to one can not see them physically. Which does not mean such things are not real.

 

[JBlack]

Take a paper clip and tie sewing thread to it. Rest your elbow on a table, hold the loose end of the thread with your fingers and let the paper clip swing like a pendulum right above the table. Then hold still and try not to move your arm at all. Now visualize that the pendulum swings back and forth, but do not move your arm!? ?It will eventually move. The reason is not at all magic. What happens is called an ideomotoric effect, which is a subconscious movement governed indirectly by your expectations rather than conscious muscle activity. Since the ideomotoric effect causes such minute muscle motion, a sensitive instrument helps to make the effect clearly visible. This is where unstable systems are expedient. A very small movement away from equilibrium causes great fluctuations in the system. Guess why dowsing rods seem to move all by themselves! They don't.

Congratulations!​

Finally, someone comes on here and helps me state the truth about dowsing.

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings... but Keniii, you are not going to be very popular here, if you tell the truth about dowsing and in the same explanation mention the I-word.

But I'm glad to see there are others here who are not afraid to speak up.

Just as a suggestion, if you post very often, you may want to consider investing in Full Body Armor, or perhaps an asbestos flame retardant suit.

​

 

[mikeandwife91]

I am a newbie at this forum, and my wife and I are getting more and more interested in rock hounding and gold prospecting. To say that I was skeptical in dowsing is a bit of an understatement, but an emerald hunting trip to North Carolina changed my perspective. The property owner took us out into the woods, and in an area that had not been dug up yet, pointed to a spot on the ground and said that she dowsed the area, and that they were right here. I looked over the top of my sunglasses with a bit of a smirk and a quiet chuckle, said thank you, and started digging. Out of pride, at first we didn't dig where she said, but as we worked our trench toward the south, at about 3 ft. deep we hit a crusty shelled rock, and when I chipped at it, there were small jade green crystals inside. Unfortunately that is when the property manager, who had been with us the whole time, decided we had dug far enough and told us it was time to pick up our tools and leave, so we didn't get to see what was inside the rock (it may have been the .45 auto that he carried that helped in the decision to leave). That rock was not even 12 inches from the spot she pointed at. I don't know how she could pick a spot in the woods, unmarked, and tell us there was something there. There is no way that was dumb luck. I'm not the skeptic I was before.

 

[angel_09]

This data is a proof of my claim that atoms in matters (ncluding gold) can be activated by external force such as the energy emitted by our body. This has derived and had been published in most of periodic tables.
SILVER: ISOTOPE: 107 Ag
Spin 1/2
magnetogyric ratio (rad/T s): -1.087 x 10^7
Relative receptivity: 3.48 x 10^-5
Magnetic moment: -0.1966
Quadrupole moment Q/m (2): 0
Resonance frequency : 4.046 MHZ

Note: Resonance frequency is quoted relative to a resonance frequency of exactly 100 MHZ for 1H

This is only one of the data that can justify dowsing in scientific ways.
If you will concentrate to an object while you hold it, it is true that minute muscle in your body will react to your thought,
but this does not mean dowsing can not be explained in scientific ways.

Angel

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

This data is a proof of my claim that atoms in matters (including gold) can be activated by external force such as the energy emitted by our body. This has derived and had been published in most of? periodic tables.
SILVER:? ISOTOPE: 107 Ag
Spin 1/2
magnetogyric ratio (rad/T s): -1.087 x 10^7
Relative receptivity: 3.48 x 10^-5
Magnetic moment: -0.1966
Quadrupole moment Q/m (2): 0
Resonance frequency : 4.046 MHZ

Note: Resonance frequency is quoted relative to a resonance frequency of exactly 100 MHZ for 1H

This is only one of the data that can justify dowsing in scientific ways.
If you will concentrate to an object while you hold it, it is true that minute muscle in your body will react to your thought,
but this does not mean dowsing can not be explained in scientific ways.

Angel

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Each element has the same data for it listed in the Periodic Tables.? The data pertains to nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) when an element is subjected to a specific amount of external magnetic radiation.?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A) HI Karl, there are many ways of stimulating resonance or amplifying it - look no further than an Atomic Absorbion Machine "AA"
I used them while assaying.

They stimulated the unknown elements emission by heat, then compared it with a stimulated known element for comparson, properly interpreted you could not only id an element, but establish it's concentration in the test solution which gave you an accurate assay.

The periodic tables were established with a constant excitation to measure with.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A) I rather suspect that Angel was not referring to a human stimulating an element as much as tuning into the elements natural emission. I agree that in any element's field may be amplified by external stimulation.

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No human body can duplicate this kind of radiation no matter how hard one concentrates.? To pull unrelated data from the Periodic Table and hold it up as scientific evidence for dowsing is wrong.? I'm sorry but there is no relationship between the two.? >Karl<
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Q) Why not Karl?? The natural resonance for the average human cell is equivalent to Channel one on the TV scale, this is why it is never used. Since the human cell is composed of many elements, including Au, is it inconceivable that their frequencies are in turn subjecting the basic cell frequency to modifications by their harmonics or the cell's subharmonics when they are stimulated by an outside similar emission?

Perhaps this is what we are responding to, an extremely minute frequency change due to an outside element, such as a buried element's emissions , which we can sense somehow through the freq change.,and so create the ideo response required


Sooo many questions to be asked and answered sigh.

 

[jeff of pa]

I would like to answer more of your questions and show you where you are wrong but that would no doubt be viewed by our moderator as confrontational
Best Regards >Karl<

Not If You Dont Hint Or Accuse Anyone Of Having Alterior Motives, For Their Beliefs.? >KARL<

 

[Albert Osborn]

Hello form,

be it far from this old mississippi redneck to discuss how dowsing
works, but if you talk to some of your treasure buddies, sooner
or later you will talk to one whom I sent a dowsed map with
the location marked and they wouldn't have had to use a metal
detector at all. I don't use a metal detector. In the past, my
problem was that I couldn't tell the cahe had been recovered.
That problem has been solved. Now, if you don't believe this,
send me a pm and I'll tell you what you can do to test me.

Have fun--isn't life great?
Howso

 

[jeff of pa]

Why Do You Feel, it Is Necessary to Bring Up Electronic Devices, When It Is Clearly Stated Not To ?

Why is it Necessary To Call People "Wallet Miners" To Make a Point, On a Forum Where Nothing Is For Sale ?

Why Is it Necessary To Call someone a Thief Just Because You Don't Like Them?

Why Is it Necessary To Try & Shame Or Goad Someone Into Responding To Your Posts ?

Why Can't you Debate Like an Adult ?

THESE QUESTIONS are NOT Directed At Anyone In Particular,

This Is What I'v Seen Every Single Day I'v Come On Here.

You Think That's Open Discussion ?

Why Do You Think People Have ONLY been Joining In the Last Couple Days ?

Seems To Me It's Majority Rule Here.

 

[gldhntr]

Harvalik (1970), a physicist, found that the dowser reacts to changing magnetic fields produced by electric ground currents with frequency in the range 1 500Hz, but not to static magnetic fields. Using magnetometers he deduced that the dowser reacts to as little as 10-9G change. There was some indication that dowsing ability was enhanced by drinking water, perhaps indicating that conductivity in the region of the kidneys is important. It is impossible to exclude the earth?'s magnetic field from the brain or any other part of the body, and there is therefore no reason why the development of a field-detecting ability should be ruled out. Harvalik conducted elaborate experiments with metal shielding of the human body, and a torch-like instrument to concentrate and direct an artificial magnetic field in an attempt to locate the positions of possible sensors. When the operator was carried horizontally on a stretcher, the reaction occurred when the solar plexus was over the feature. When the metal shield was between the navel and the breast bone the signal was not detected, indicating a detector site slightly below the solar plexus, perhaps the adrenal gland in the kidney region (which contains magnetite, as reported by Kirschvink (1981)). Shielding of the head indicated a second possible detector site at the base of the brain, perhaps the pineal gland. It has also been found that human bones from the region of the sphenoid/ethmoid sinus complex contain magnetite, and it is suggested that these deposits are concerned with magnetic field detection; the sinus complex approximating to the region previously deduced from orientation experiments to be the site of a magnetoreceptor (Baker 1981; Baker et al. 1983). Other points mentioned by Harvalik are that two detectors will be necessary to detect a field gradient, and the detection mechanism could be based on nuclear magnetic resonance (calculations indicate that the earth's magnetic field would give rise to precession at about 2000Hz, and a field gradient of 1mG/m would give a beat frequency of about 1Hz which could be detectable). A good summary of Harvalik's work is also given by Bird (1979).

The work of Chadwick and Jensen (1971) appears to be the first documented experiment carried out under double blind conditions which was relevant to the dowsing problem. Chadwick, the experimenter, was a sceptic, and did not know the correct answers. 150 subjects were tested, mostly novice dowsers. A path was chosen leading through a park, with no known features. Subjects were asked to place small wooden blocks where they felt they were getting a reaction or field . The positions of the blocks were noted after each run, and removed before the next run. When all the subjects had been tested, a conventional magnetometer survey was carried out along the path. The correlations between the subjects and the magnetometry were found to be statistically significant at the .05 level. There was therefore some evidence of correlation between magnetic gradient changes and dowsing reactions. The conclusions were that there are sufficient statistically significant results to warrant further investigations.
......the tests, studies, protocols, and results concerning this post will either be found in the link below, or in one of the many references i posted on the thread concerning testing and studies into dowsing and how or why it works........the link is;; http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,19834.0.html .....the thread is '' dowsing info, printed facts, studies, and references'..........................gldhntr

 

[gldhntr]

How Does it Work?

The short answer is that no-one really knows ? it just does!. The scientific world, geologists and archaeologists and so on appear to put their heads in the sand because here is something that cannot be Proved nor can it be Disproved scientifically. However it is surprising how many water, mining, oil companies and so on use dowsers in exploration work ? it is never admitted because it may take away the credibility of the large concern ? increasingly police forces etc. will use the services of a dowser.

All that can be said is that it is an in-built ability within man from the beginning of time, it helped him to find his food and water and his minerals. In addition it helped him to communicate with other members of his tribe at a distance and there are still in this world so-called primitive tribes who have these natural abilities to this day. Gradually over the centuries our so called sophistication and civilisation etc. have stifled these natural abilities, plus, of course, condemnation by the church particularly in the period of about 1610 until the late 1700?s and even today when it was and is, by some, considered the work of the devil. I firmly believe that it is some primeval and natural instinct that lies deep within us all, the Mind which has the ability to receive communication from the Universal Mind that knows and controls everything that there has ever been, that there is and ever will be ? God. I firmly believe that it is a God given gift ? to everyone who is prepared to develop and use it ? to be used for the benefit of our fellow man and the world in which we live.

 

[gldhntr]

another interesting tidbit....dowsing has been done under water with good results...the rods seem to be more sensitive under water, possibly because water is a good conductor of electricity, and also is a good ground........i personally have dowsed with success in a moving vehicle, which means you do not have to be standing on the earth for the occurance to happen as i would think the tires would break any connection between you and the earth,,, i have also dowsed from an aluminum jon boat, crossing the pond in my back yard, and holding the signal {which came from the top of a hill on the other side of the pond} the whole way........dowsing has also been done in airplanes with good results.......gldhntr

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

The natural resonance for the average human cell is NOT equivalent to Chan 1 on the TV scale.? Neither is that the reason Chan. 1 is not used.

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


A)Hmmm,? according to the data that I? have the natural resonance of the average human cell is 52 M??

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


1940, the FCC allocated 42-50 MHz for FM radio broadcasting. This necessitated moving the TV channels up in frequency, and that is why there is no TV Chan. 1 today.

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~?

A) I can't really ague on this? point? Karl, your data appears more correct than mine.

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

l'd like to answer more of your questions and show you where you are wrong but that would no doubt be viewed by our moderator as confrontational

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A) Heck karl, I wouldn't be? insulted or have my feelings hurt even if you find/prove that everything that I have read, experienced or heard, is wrong, that is progressive learning for me.? I certainly don't know all that there is to know, nor is my infomation personally handed down to me by the LORD!!

I believe that my wife would tend be on your side, snicker or sigh?

If you feel that you can't disagree with me in here, then feel free to em me, however, I am sure that the readers/Jeff do not want a? "yes" only forum.

jcurry@prodigy.net.mx

Jose e La Mancha? ( I tilt windmills )

 

[jeff of pa]

Karl, You Disagree With Me, Did Your Posts Get Edited Or Deleted ? NO , because You Were At Least Respectfull to a Degree In Them.

I Don't Believe Physical Dowsing Can Exist Without Mental Movement of some sort.

Dell & others Here Do.

There has NEVER been A censorship of "DOWSING" Ideas & Opinions on this Forum, That I can see.

The ONLY Censorship Has Been, When it gets "OFF SUBJECT", into "Advertising" and "PERSONAL VENDETTAS" slip in.

JEFF

 

[Carl-NC]

A)Hmmm,? according to the data that I? have the natural resonance of the average human cell is 52 M??

Can you share your source for this info?