Will Vanquish coills work on the Nox??

[Jason in Enid]

First of all, I don't really understand your masking tape comment. Putting masking tape around a coil doesn't alter it's detection field at all.

......
HTH

Hes just saying you can mask off the outer perimeter to visualize the size comparison.

 

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[vferrari]

Hes just saying you can mask off the outer perimeter to visualize the size comparison.

OK, I see that now, so I revised my post. Thanks.

 

[gunsil]

Just a dumb question, but how would the 8" coil be more useful than the 11"? To picture a 8" coil, just take some 1" or 3/4 " masking tape and put it around the edge of your 11"(double up to remove 2 inches), personally I do not see any advantage for tight areas, for those I would use the 6"

In the world of detectors there are different coils for different purposes. Smaller coils automatically give better target separation over larger coils and are better for hunting trashy areas where detectors get "confused" by several or even more targets under a coil at once. Smaller coils are also more sensitive to smaller targets than larger coils. Larger coils go deeper but depth is often over rated if you are a coin hunter. Smaller coils are also easier to swing in brush and in water. 6" coils are too small to me, I have 8" coils for my Safari, ATP, and Infinium and they rarely leave the machines. In the days of yore all coin hunting machines came with 8" coils as standard with a larger coil option for cache hunting. Modern detector companies merely make the 11" or so coil standard for greater depth claims, not because the coils are the best for every purpose, they are just good "all around" coils. Many folks still consider the 8" coil as the "standard" for coin hunting.

I think Vferrari is a little off on coil size/depth though, I have found dimes well below 5" with my ATP 5X8 and reales at 10" with my Safari with an 8" round DD coil. Since coins don't sink in the ground, most coins in this country will be found at 8" or less if the soil hasn't been disturbed by landscaping or silting from floods and I like the hot signal of an 8" coil and the lighter weight to swing. Minelab makes 8" round coils for the explorer series, Excal, and now the Vanquish, why not for the Nox? Most guys I know who hunt a lot have an arsenal of coils for every machine they own, I bet if you tried an 8" coil for coin hunting you would rarely take it off.

 

[nagant]

I haven't bought a extra coil and will wait to see what develops over the winter. Being a Tesoro guy for 20+ yrs i loved the 9x8 Elliptical and the 7" for most of what i do. I used the 4" only when i knew good targets were probable and it did better then the bigger coils in the junky spots, but i wouldn't start out with it. With depth being half i don't think it was worth it. I looked at the six inch Equinox and it really would be a long day to cover a yard properly and the depth loss bothers me. The Vanquish 10x7 looks about right for a second coil but if it Minelab offered a 7x10 with the 800 i would have gone for it before the 11"

 

[bc5391]

Thanks for the information guys.

 

[vferrari]

In the world of detectors there are different coils for different purposes. Smaller coils automatically give better target separation over larger coils and are better for hunting trashy areas where detectors get "confused" by several or even more targets under a coil at once. Smaller coils are also more sensitive to smaller targets than larger coils. Larger coils go deeper but depth is often over rated if you are a coin hunter. Smaller coils are also easier to swing in brush and in water. 6" coils are too small to me, I have 8" coils for my Safari, ATP, and Infinium and they rarely leave the machines. In the days of yore all coin hunting machines came with 8" coils as standard with a larger coil option for cache hunting. Modern detector companies merely make the 11" or so coil standard for greater depth claims, not because the coils are the best for every purpose, they are just good "all around" coils. Many folks still consider the 8" coil as the "standard" for coin hunting.

I think Vferrari is a little off on coil size/depth though, I have found dimes well below 5" with my ATP 5X8 and reales at 10" with my Safari with an 8" round DD coil. Since coins don't sink in the ground, most coins in this country will be found at 8" or less if the soil hasn't been disturbed by landscaping or silting from floods and I like the hot signal of an 8" coil and the lighter weight to swing. Minelab makes 8" round coils for the explorer series, Excal, and now the Vanquish, why not for the Nox? Most guys I know who hunt a lot have an arsenal of coils for every machine they own, I bet if you tried an 8" coil for coin hunting you would rarely take it off.

Regarding “target separation” and coil size - again for a DD coil, coil size really doesn’t play much into the ability to separate targets (side-to-side) because of the shape of the detection field that emanates from the coil. That is not the case for concentric coils, wher coil size plays a big role in the ability to separate targets.

Regarding, depth and coil diameter - I never said depth was absolutely going to be limited to the diameter of the coil, I said roughly. It is a relative benchmark or thumb rule from which you can compare different coils and is non-exact for ALL the reasons I listed. You are always going to find exceptions and examples where the coil will see targets much deeper than the diameter of the coil and examples where you won’t be able to see targets any deeper than half the diameter of the coil or less. Everything is relative and there are very few absolutes when it comes to metal detecting. Larger diameter or width coils are generally deeper but tend to not be able to resolve very small targets (thanks for pointing that out, gunsil, I failed to mention that). Though I have found button shanks, percussion caps, and earring backs with ease with the larger 12x15” coil, but that doesn’t mean that large coils having trouble seeing small targets is not a mostly true statement.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Regarding “target separation” and coil size - again for a DD coil, coil size really doesn’t play much into the ability to separate targets (side-to-side) because of the shape of the detection field that emanates from the coil. That is not the case for concentric coils, wher coil size plays a big role in the ability to separate targets.

Yep, HUGE difference between DD and concentrics. Since concentric coils are hot under the entire coil, a reduction in size makes a massive change in the percentage of area detected.

Biggest way that small DD coils help (with trash) is that they are hot under the outer ring but only for a shallow depth. But when you have a lot of shallow modern trash, reducing that outer ring makes it roughly comparable to the changing coils on a concentric. But then when you are looking at the coverage for full depth down the center, you aren't losing very much when compared to the bigger coil. did I explain that clear as mud?

 

[bklein]

Hands on, Barstow event. Sorry for delay with answer.

 

[gunsil]

Even a DD sees more than one target in a trashy area. An 11" DD can and will often have more than one target under the narrow line of detection, smaller DDs still reduce the problem of separation or nobody would buy the smaller coils for trashy areas.

 

[vferrari]

Even a DD sees more than one target in a trashy area. An 11" DD can and will often have more than one target under the narrow line of detection, smaller DDs still reduce the problem of separation or nobody would buy the smaller coils for trashy areas.

It’s more about what Jason said above, fewer targets under the smaller outer ring which can register and fewer targets that can be be lined-up “vertically” simultaneously under the center section (because it is shorter, not because it is narrower). Those are both advantages in trashy areas. That 6” is going to be less overloaded with multiple target signals because fewer targets will be under the entire coil footprint at any moment so it is preferred in thick trash. But that is not the same as target separation, ability to individually resolve targets side-by-side during your swing.

Side-to-side target swing separation is virtually the same between the 11” and the 6” DD coils. Look at the thickness of that center section on both coils. Recovery speed, not DD coil size, controls this aspect of the ability of the detector to separate targets. It is a common misconception that is borne of the different behavior of concentric coils, where size actually does affect side-to-side separation performance.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Raising my hand and asking a dumb question.. If you have a Minelab Equinox, with the stock coil and the optional 6" coil, why would you want or need a Minelab Vanquish?

 

[vferrari]

Raising my hand and asking a dumb question.. If you have a Minelab Equinox, with the stock coil and the optional 6" coil, why would you want or need a Minelab Vanquish?

I personally have no use for the Vanquish, but the V10 (10 × 7") coil is the sweet combo of 10" of swing coverage with just slightly more depth than the 6" round. In other words, I can get into the similar tight areas where side-to-side swing width is limited that I can get into with the 6" coil, but I don't have to tiptoe around the open areas like I have to with the 6" because I have 10" of swing coverage (can take fairly normal forward steps). At around $225, I can purchase a Vanquish 340 simply for the included V10 coil and I will have paid about $25 more than the cost of a 6" Equinox coil alone. Not worth it though if the V10 is not compatible with Equinox, the 340 is a really hobbled detector IMO. But it probably would have been great in your hands, Terry, if the Deus challenge ever got ressurected again.

 

[smokeythecat]

Terry, the only way you would want a Vanquish if you have an Equinox is if you want a machine for your 12 year old or, alternately, very intelligent black lab. Actually, my friend has one so smart he could probably learn to use one.

 

[Terry Soloman]

I want to see a Simplex - Vanquish showdown!

 

[Jason in Enid]

I want to see a Simplex - Vanquish showdown!

You want to compare a true multi-freq'er to a regular old single freq VLF? Make sure test it in every type of ground environment and water with all different types and sizes of targets.

 

[sandmartin]

You want to compare a true multi-freq'er to a regular old single freq VLF? Make sure test it in every type of ground environment and water with all different types and sizes of targets.

Underwater? Oh wait....

 

[vferrari]

You want to compare a true multi-freq'er to a regular old single freq VLF? Make sure test it in every type of ground environment and water with all different types and sizes of targets.

More like a crippled multi freaker. But it would be interesting nevertheless. If Nokta could have added multiple single frequencies to the Simplex without a signficant cost hit, it would be a no brainer cost effective backup machine. Regardless, I will still grab one because it has demonstrated decent field performance vs. Deus and Equinox and is technically "diverse" from my Equinox (i.e., its not just a dumbed down Multi IQ machine which would be redundant). Vanquish would probably win at the beach as long as they really included a stable beach mode like the Equinox. Just because it is multi F doesn't mean it will necessarily work at the beach (Note that Equinox Park, Field, and Gold modes in multi IQ cannot run stable in wet salt beach conditions). Notice that Vanquish does not have a mode specifically designated "Beach". So which one is actually stable on a salt beach? Jewelry? Who knows.

 

[Jason in Enid]

..... So which one is actually stable on a salt beach? Jewelry? Who knows.

Dunno, thats why I said a "showdown" should include head-to-head in all environments.

 

[cudamark]

More like a crippled multi freaker. But it would be interesting nevertheless. If Nokta could have added multiple single frequencies to the Simplex without a signficant cost hit, it would be a no brainer cost effective backup machine. Regardless, I will still grab one because it has demonstrated decent field performance vs. Deus and Equinox and is technically "diverse" from my Equinox (i.e., its not just a dumbed down Multi IQ machine which would be redundant). Vanquish would probably win at the beach as long as they really included a stable beach mode like the Equinox. Just because it is multi F doesn't mean it will necessarily work at the beach (Note that Equinox Park, Field, and Gold modes in multi IQ cannot run stable in wet salt beach conditions). Notice that Vanquish does not have a mode specifically designated "Beach". So which one is actually stable on a salt beach? Jewelry? Who knows.

Actually, I'm usually able to run Park 1 in the wet salt water sand without it falsing.

 

[smokeythecat]

No air tests! They are useless.