WWII German Dress Bayonet~Can you help me authenticate it?

[clovis97]

My father in law has a German dress bayonet and he has asked me to help him sell it.

My FIL was given to him by his uncle, who said he brought it home after the war. It is in fantastic condition.

I need to authenticate that the bayonet is indeed a German dress bayonet from World War II, and not a post war issue of any type. I would also like to confirm that it is of German manufacture, and not manufactured in another Axis country.

The maker's mark on the blade is C. Gustav Spitzer-Solingen. No other markings on the blade, handle, frog or sheath.

Bayonet measures 12 5/8" long, tip to tip.

Appears to have bakelite handles

Most importantly, I need to know if this is a $79 bayonet, or a $499 bayonet. Due to my FIL's bout with cancer, his medical bills total over $45,000 after Medicare insurance, and the bills keep rolling in. I don't want to sell a $399 bayonet for just $100.

I am going to try to add some pics in a minute.

Thanks in advance!!!!!

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

Military Collectibles Price Guide - MilitaryItems.com


photos are necessary for a correct identification. dependent upon condition{excellent, with frog, more}, 80 bucks isn't a give away...but not bad.

 

[clovis97]

Here are pics, if they work:

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

German Daggers And Bayonets Pricing Guide - MilitaryItems.com

nice piece, don't polish or clean...are there markings on the frog? the leather portion?
{thanks}

 

[clovis97]

Aha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's try another one:

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

check that link I posted...
good photographs...thanks..they always help...

 

[clovis97]

Thanks, Pippin!!

The picture on your link shows a police bayonet, right? That bayonet has a curled hand guard on both sides of the handle. My FIL's bayonet does not have that.

He's owned it since I met his daughter, almost 25 years ago. My wife says that he's owned it "all of her life", and she is almost 44. I mention this because I am 100% certain that this in an original manufacture, and not a repop.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

there were variations on most bayonets...that site has many of the common ones...
I once found a similar bayonet...yet, it had stag handles, missing the mounting lug to rifle{as in never drilled}, the pommel was etched into a stylized eagles head...chromed, black scabbard...


it appears to be an original piece to me...not a reproduction...the patina is correct for 65 years...the leather frog is correct...
leather washer for the scabbard is correct and in fantastic condition.

 

[clovis97]

BTW, the black japanning on the sheath is nearly 99%. A few dings on the back side. I am certain that it has never been repainted.

Also, the leather frog is in awesome shape. It is supple, complete, very little wear, etc., and the patina is right. Nice patina on the rivets too.

Thanks again for the help!!!!! All replies are appreciated!!!!

 

[clovis97]

Okay, can you confirm that the bayonet I have is WWII German manufacture, and not Austrian, Swiss or Czek?

It sounds like it is German WWII, but I want to triple confirm everything.

What do you think about it's value?

Condition has to add a premium to the value. Two years ago, I sold a J-U-N-K K98 field bayonet for $80. This one had a rusty, deep pitted blade, had been poorly re-edged, and looked like it had been used daily since the battle of Stalingrad, but stored in a wet barn.

Personally, I'd give $100 for it just to keep in in the family. But in this instance, if we can get a premium for it, due to the stack of medical bills they face, it is for sale.

Again, thank you!!!!

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

ok..it is a period piece..authentic Nazi war material...there was little if any difference between Nazi Germany and Nazi Austria...hitler invaded to make them one...

in the condition...dependent upon the collectors in your area...i'd guess this piece cold go for up to 130.oo...
the leather is fantastic condition...blade appears to have no nicks or other abuse...
i'd need to handle it to give you more information... I am sure someone like me is in your neighborhood...

 

[clovis97]

Thanks, Pip.

I am sure there is someone around here, but I have yet to meet them. Seems that most that I've met are self proclaimed experts, quickly say that they are probably the smartest in the world on Nazi items, because they own a handful of replica patches and once read part of a book about the Holocaust. I've also met a few slimy dudes that would be quick to pronounce that it is a replica, worth about $25, but they would do me a favor and offer $20 because I need the money.

LOL.

No worries though. The same type of guys come to train shows too. Just interchange the word "Nazi" with "Tyco", and you'll meet the foremost expert in the world on all trains, toy and full scale alike.

I've found if you really want to know want to know who the most knowledgeable guys at a train show are, look for an older guy, sitting by himself, being quiet all day, as if he has nothing to say to anyone. Typically speaking, that guy will know more about variations of Lionel O22 post war train switches than anyone on the internet or can diagnose and rebuilt a ZW transformer while blindfolded, and recite factory part numbers as he puts it back together.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

ok....got it...have had similar experiences...what part of the world are you in?
this fellow is on line... Stewart's Military Antiques and Collectible Militaria and 19th Century Photography

I have dealt with him for over thirty years, never heard a bad word from anyone who dealt with him...

it does look like the idea find for a collector...
yep...the old guys at the gun shows, not a dealer...

 

[clovis97]

Pip,

Thank you again for your help!!!! You are a great asset to this forum.

The condition of the blade is just as nice all over as it is in the small area showing in the maker's mark picture. What isn't shown is that the plating on the hand guard and the end is dull...so dull that it looks almost like galvanized steel. No way will it polish out.

Can I ask again about value? Do you think that $135 is out of line as an asking price on the retail side?

Sorry to be a bother, but we need to get as much out of this bayonet as we can. If you saw the stack of medical bills and the $7,500 a year in medications that my in-laws use every year, versus the income, you'd say "Crap. I understand now."

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Nice bayonet! Definitely an authentic Third Reich item. It's in pretty good condition, but does have a lot of wear to the plating on the handle. Some minor wear on the blade, but not terrible. Without holding it in my hand I'd offer an estimate between 75$-125$. I know that may sound low, and it could very well go higher, but it is a common maker, and it's not one of the high end models with an etched blade. Is there colored felt in the slot?

The Collector's Guild

 

[Itsmine]

Here's an interesting find. Looks like it's your dagger. If it's not a fake or repo, the price on the botton lists it as rare and possibly $175. Good luck.

German Daggers And Bayonets Pricing Guide - MilitaryItems.com

 

[uglymailman]

The one itsmine posted is a Fireman's. The blade has a guard on both sides. The Railroad Fireman's is very rare. Be sure to get a positive I.D. on it.
Wittmann Antique Militaria - Imperial German & Third Reich Artifacts
I emailed this guy and he made an I.D. on a dagger for me. You might give him a try. Good luck.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Here's an interesting find. Looks like it's your dagger. If it's not a fake or repo, the price on the botton lists it as rare and possibly $175. Good luck.

German Daggers And Bayonets Pricing Guide - MilitaryItems.com

The one pictured on this site is a different model. Similar, but a dagger rather than a bayonet.

 

[clovis97]

Thank you for the replies!!!!

They are appreciated!!!

I am still trying to determine an exact value for my bayonet. The good condition should help command a premium, right? I sold a field bayonet last year for $80, and the thing was in horrid condition.

I am sorry to sound simplistic, but with the stack of medical bills my FIL has, if we can get $140 out of it rather than $130, it helps all the more.

By the way, we happen to be in the antique business, and have two booths at two locations, and I think we will put the bayonet in one of those booths. I just want to make sure that I'm not under-pricing it...and I certainly don't want to see it on the 'bay for twice what we sold it for.

Again, thank you for your time and expertise!!!! I do appreciate it!!!!

 

[mallagante]

Offer for the bayonet

Nice bayonet! Definitely an authentic Third Reich item. It's in pretty good condition, but does have a lot of wear to the plating on the handle. Some minor wear on the blade, but not terrible. Without holding it in my hand I'd offer an estimate between 75$-125$. I know that may sound low, and it could very well go higher, but it is a common maker, and it's not one of the high end models with an etched blade. Is there colored felt in the slot?

The Collector's Guild

I'd like to buy it...I'm a former museum curator.
I specialize in German military items.
I'd like to offer you $100.
Please advise,
Paul