Wyoming State Parks and Lands

[WyoMike]

You can see from the e-mails below the trouble I've Had getting permission. The last e-mail is to the Head of all Parks in Wyoming. Next stop the Governor! Let me know what you think.





Sir,

I don't see any reason that this permission cannot be granted. This is a hobby, I am not looking to get rich from this. As you can see from below I take very seriously not leaving any sign that I was there. It would be confined to the beach and campground area. I am not looking for historical artifacts but if any were found they would be turned over to the Park Service. I would do this in the off season so as not to disturb other people. Frankly, it is too crowded and crazy in the summer. I would be more than willing to have a Park employee check on me to see if it meets their approval. Thank you for consideration in this matter.




Michael Koenig

Wheatland, WY









--- state.parks.parks@wyo.gov wrote:

From: State Parks Parks <state.parks.parks@wyo.gov>
To: Michael Koenig <mkoenig@wyoming.com>
Subject: Re: metal detecting
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:44:54 -0600



Michael,



You have contacted the Headquarters for Wyoming State Parks. We do not allow any metal detecting in any State Park, Historic Site or Archaeological Sites. We do not give permission for this type of action at any time to anyone. If you have any other questions, please let me know.




Thank you,




Christie



On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Michael Koenig <mkoenig@wyoming.com> wrote:









Section 15. Preservation of Public Property.




(c) The use of any mineral or metal detecting device at a state historic or archeological site is prohibited, except for official use. The use of any mineral or metal detecting device at a state park or recreation area is prohibited without written permission of the superintendent




Is it possible to get this permission and how to go about it? I would do this in the fall and early spring. I leave no holes, damage no plants or grass. I remove all trash that I find and I have found, at the city park and various lakes, fish hooks, broken glass, sharp metal pieces and live ammunition. When I am done no one could tell I was there.

--- state.parks.parks@wyo.gov wrote:

From: State Parks Parks <state.parks.parks@wyo.gov>
To: michael koenig <mkoenig@wyoming.com>
Subject: Re: metal detecting
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 08:14:54 -0600





Michael,



There are no permits for metal detecting. It is illegal in State Parks, Historic Sites or on State Land of any type. If you have any further questions, please let me know.




Thank you,




Christie



On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 4:36 PM, michael koenig <mkoenig@wyoming.com> wrote:

Is it possible to get a metal detecting permit for the camping and beach areas at Glendo and Guernsey State Parks?







--


Christie Christensen

Administrative Assistant for Division Administrators

Wyoming Department of State Parks & Cultural Resources

2301 Central Avenue

Barrett Building, 4th Floor

Cheyenne, WY 82002

Phone: (307) 777-2416
E-Mail to and from me, in connection with the transaction
of public business, is subject to the Wyoming Public Records
Act and may be disclosed to third parties.







--


Christie Christensen

Administrative Assistant for Division Administrators

Wyoming Department of State Parks & Cultural Resources

2301 Central Avenue

Barrett Building, 4th Floor

Cheyenne, WY 82002

Phone: (307) 777-2416

 

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[Jeremy S]

Your mistake: You emailed The State Parks HQ. As you can see, you never got past the "Administrative Assistant for Division Administrators". She probably searched for metal detecting and began finding laws about grave robbers or watched episodes of American Diggers. Or she asked an archaeologist.

I would have asked the park manager/superintendent in person at Glendo and Guernsey, not over the phone or in an email, and never would have contacted the State Parks Department. Christie is a pencil pusher and is probably only concerned about legal liability and thinks that you are out to loot their precious historical sites. You can't win with a bureaucrat.

Chances are the park manager or superintendent is a person with common sense, and after speaking with them in person they will be glad to let you clean up the metal trash for them. In my state each park and manager or different. Some are very open to letting folks detect the beaches, while others will have you kicked out of the park for even thinking about detecting their beaches. Dress nice, never mention "digging" or "holes", have fresh breath, have a copy of the rules handy, and politely ask the park manager/superintendent face to face. Worse case they say no.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Congradulations. You are now the latest victim of the "no one cared TILL you asked" psychology .

Be sure to keep this up everywhere else you go too. So that they'll search long and hard through their rule books to find some supposed evil to the "pressing question".. So that we can have YET MORE bol's put on to us.

 

[Lady Pirate]

Loose Lips Sink Ships.......it's like asking a deer if it will stand still while you get in a good shot? Sometimes it's better to zip it up, read previous questions on here and go back pages and pages and pages then looking for information for a long period of time, then just a page or two. Sometimes that can of worms needs to be kept shut.

 

[Clay Diggins]

It is against the law for anyone to metal detect Wyoming state parks or state land without the permission of the superintendent.

The original poster made it clear that he knew that was the law and that he was trying to get the permission of the superintendent.

Why would you give this guy grief for doing exactly what the law says he must do? What is so hard to understand about you must get permission to metal detect state land legally?

You might reasonably disagree about how he is asking permission but telling him he shouldn't ask permission is publicly encouraging someone else to break the law.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Clay diggins : Go check out the fmdac state by state list . Compare CA to Wyoming . Very similar , eh ? Each is a "yes with permission " type thing .

Ok then you tell me : Why then can we hunt state of CA beaches till we're blue in the face ? They're administered by that agency afterall . But I'll tell you the quickest way we could get that changed : To take the fmdac list literally , and start sending emails And permission requests each time we want to go to the beach .

I'm not saying to throw caution to the wind . And go tromp on sacred historic sites . I'm just saying that sometimes you gotta read between the lines . And know when some such answer was just a "safe" or "obligatory" type thing given out.

 

[DFX DAVE in M.D.]

I like how Mikes e-mail was made, it sounded like a sincere try to get permission. My local Maryland State Park [ Elk Neck Beach } is off limits now due to Park Ranger discretion. A guy was detecting on the other side of the penninsula at the campground, which is off limits to detecting, just the swimming beach only. The guy was leaving big holes unfilled and the Ranger had enough. There is no sand on that side, and leaving holes is unsafe. The rules here are from Labor Day till Memorial Day, I waited all summer to get there and got the info from a park employee.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Dave , then in that case , it was a holes issue . Not a permission issue . Ie.: sounds like someone who lacks discretion , can't read between the lines , etc... Thus another issue .

 

[cudamark]

I like how Mikes e-mail was made, it sounded like a sincere try to get permission. My local Maryland State Park [ Elk Neck Beach } is off limits now due to Park Ranger discretion. A guy was detecting on the other side of the penninsula at the campground, which is off limits to detecting, just the swimming beach only. The guy was leaving big holes unfilled and the Ranger had enough. There is no sand on that side, and leaving holes is unsafe. The rules here are from Labor Day till Memorial Day, I waited all summer to get there and got the info from a park employee.

If the ranger knew who was digging and leaving open holes, why not punish that guy instead of everyone? The simple answer is that they're lazy and want to take the easy way out with a big NO. The same thing will happen when you start asking questions that need some thought.

 

[DFX DAVE in M.D.]

Yes it was a holes issue, it was also don't tick off the people in charge issue also. That is all it takes to get shut out of a good site, and why there is rules against detecting everywhere. Maybe by spring the Park Ranger could change his mind, or a new Park Ranger could be in charge and allow detecting again. It is a issue we deal with that keeps us looking for sites elsewhere.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

If it were true that someone else leaving holes was a reason that an authority were giving me grief , then my solution is simple : Avoid that one griper lookie-lou .

It's actually gotten to where I hunt turfed parks mostly at night now . So peaceful . So serene .

 

[Clay Diggins]

Clay diggins : Go check out the fmdac state by state list . Compare CA to Wyoming . Very similar , eh ? Each is a "yes with permission " type thing .

Ok then you tell me : Why then can we hunt state of CA beaches till we're blue in the face ? They're administered by that agency afterall . But I'll tell you the quickest way we could get that changed : To take the fmdac list literally , and start sending emails And permission requests each time we want to go to the beach .

I'm not saying to throw caution to the wind . And go tromp on sacred historic sites . I'm just saying that sometimes you gotta read between the lines . And know when some such answer was just a "safe" or "obligatory" type thing given out.

I wrote nothing about the FMDAC list or beach hunting in California. I wrote about Wyoming law.

Wyoming law:

Section 15. Preservation of Public Property.

(c) The use of any mineral or metal detecting device at a state historic or archeological site is prohibited, except for official use. The use of any mineral or metal detecting device at a state park or recreation area is prohibited without written permission of the superintendent.

It's simple it's straightforward and its the law in Wyoming. It may not fit your theory but the law doesn't mention anything but what you read above. You can't legally use a metal detecting device at a Wyoming State Park or recreation area without asking, and getting, the permission of the Superintendent.

No reading between the lines - straight up you must ask permission.

If you don't ask permission?

Section 2. Authority To Enforce.

(a) All duly authorized peace officers as defined in W.S. ' 7-2-101 while within the geographical boundaries of their jurisdiction shall have the authority to enforce all state statutes and these rules and regulations on park lands.

Section 3. Penalty Clause.

(a) These rules are specifically subject to the provisions of W.S. ' 36-4-115 and shall be enforced pursuant to the provisions.

(i) Any person violating W.S. ' ' 36-4-101 through 36-4-123 or these rules is guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be fined not more than seven hundred fifty dollars ($750.00), imprisoned for not more than six (6) months, or both.

This is not an ambiguous namby pamby "gee you could read it some other way" law. It's clear and simple.

You must ask permission.

Does that make me happy? - no

Does that make you happy? -

Either way it is the law until you change it. Since you and I don't have a vote in Wyoming I'm guessing we won't have any possibility of changing something we (?) don't like.

Such is life

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Clay Diggins; I have absolutely no doubt that WY law reads technically/literally that way . And so too .... as I was pointing out , do a whole host of other states have similar "with permission", or "with permit", or "inquire at each kiosk ", etc ... type wording . And was pointing out that actual reality/practice is often different .

And you have to remember where a lot of that stuff was born decades ago to begin with . Care to take a guess ? : People asking. So they come up with this stuff in answer to the pressing questions. So all I'm saying is, let's not put ourselves EVEN MORE on their radar , to get more rules , policies , and attention directed at us

 

[Clay Diggins]

Clay Diggins; I have absolutely no doubt that WY law reads technically/literally that way . And so too .... as I was pointing out , do a whole host of other states have similar "with permission", or "with permit", or "inquire at each kiosk ", etc ... type wording . And was pointing out that actual reality/practice is often different .

And you have to remember where a lot of that stuff was born decades ago to begin with . Care to take a guess ? : People asking. So they come up with this stuff in answer to the pressing questions. So all I'm saying is, let's not put ourselves EVEN MORE on their radar , to get more rules , policies , and attention directed at us

I'm puzzled as to where you stand on this Wyoming Parks issue Tom. Are you taking the view that the Wyoming law is just a suggestion? Something to be observed only if it's unavoidable? At what point does a law become enforceable by police and courts in your opinion?

Your theory about why the 90 members of the Wyoming State legislature outlawed metal detecting in parks may be true. It could be that some House member didn't like being bothered by a phone call asking permission. It could also be true that they did it because some Senators son wanted a detector and the Senator didn't want to pony up the cash. Or maybe they are POed at Garrett or Fisher for not building a factory there. Or maybe some politician doesn't like seeing his neighbor digging up clad on the beach. Or maybe they were trying to lower the risk management costs for liability insurance? (Very probable) Who knows? Do you?

I don't disagree with your theory about asking permission when it's not needed. I just wonder if you are really suggesting your fellow detectorists ignore a state law prohibiting detecting in state parks unless they obtain permission? Wouldn't we be "EVEN MORE on their radar" if we are going to jail for breaking the law? Wouldn't the public get the wrong idea about detectorists if we are seen as common criminals doing whatever we please even though we know it's against the law?

Just one man's thoughts.

 

[Jeremy S]

Section 15. Preservation of Public Property.

(c) The use of any mineral or metal detecting device at a state historic or archeological site is prohibited, except for official use. The use of any mineral or metal detecting device at a state park or recreation area is prohibited without written permission of the superintendent.

I hunted two state parks this month, both of which have almost the exact same verbiage as the quoted rule above.

Park #1:The park ranger gave me a written permit to sign (free) and a copy of the rules which basically said to only detect the beach area, don't leave holes open, and turn in valuable jewelry if it is listed on their "lost and found" list.

Park #2: No permit of any kind, they just told me to have fun and keep my detecting near the beach.

In both cases I stopped by the front gate/office and asked in person. Each park has their own "unwritten" policies.

On a side note, the word "archeological" in the above quoted rule is spelled wrong!

 

[Clay Diggins]

On a side note, the word "archeological" in the above quoted rule is spelled wrong!

You know - I noticed that myself Jeremy. It's copied directly from the Wyoming statutes so I figured they had pulled a real blooper.

Being a prudent sort of guy I looked it up and found that "archeological" is an accepted alternate spelling in Random House Dictionary and American Heritage Science Dictionary among others.

Not only the dictionaries but most legislation is spelled that way. Odd

I learned something new today.

Maybe again tomorrow?

 

[piegrande]

In my 1975 Random House college dictionary, that is one of two acceptable spellings.

Also see Arkansas Archeological Survey

So, I must agree with Clay Diggins

I still use the 1975 dictionary because when I went out to buy a new one, they were all dumbed-up.