A SAD DAY... Big Brother IS Watching...Some advice for you all.

[golden silver]

Today was a sad and alarming day for me guys. I know some of you have your own stories to tell but now I Golden Silver have one of my own. Are you sitting down? Today I was interogated by NCIS. To those who do not know that is the Military's form of the FBI. I will try and make this brief but it probably won't be.

At first I did not know why I was there but then I remembered another member of this forum telling a story about getting pulled aside at his bank and asked questions by the FBI. I have to be honest I am not sure I bought the story completely until now. They began by asking me my backround information and asked me if I handle a lot of money on the regular basis. I said that I did. Then they proceded to ask how many bank accounts that I have and I was up front and honest. I told them about 10 and where I had them. They asked me why I had them and I explained this hobbie. I am sorry but In this instance I think I am allowed to break rules #1 and #2 of CRHing. It is noteworthy to mention that they were stone faced and serious durring the entire questioning. I was very nervous but stayed straight faced and tried to appear calm because I knew if I was jittery they would be suspicious of my nervousness. They asked me how much a week I went through and how much money per year have I gone through. I said that I was not completely sure but it was over $200,000. Can you believe this guys but they new exactly how much I had gone through. They said it was more like $300,000. What they did next shocked me even more. They pulled out of a black bag a box full of torn wrappers. Lo and behold it was one of my boxes I had thrown away months ago in a dumpster. They had it in their possession. They then asked me if I had been to Harper Ferry West Va. and I said yes. Believe it or not they knew all the road trips I had been on and where. They asked if I had gone to Casinos and I said that I had not. They found it very odd that I did the amount of searching that I had done and that it was actually worth my time. I said that it was worth my time and that I plan on selling some for a down payment on a house. I explained my plans only because they asked what I was doing with the coin. I repeated over and over again that it was just a hobbie and that I am a sailor working to provide for my family and do this to help me save for the future. To show the extent of how much they know...they knew that when tellers asked me what I do with the coin I change stories and don't tell the truth like so many on this website. They knew that sometimes I would dump several thousand at different banks on the same day. All of this drew attention to them.

The Climax of the story and the most shocking part I think is that they followed me to my home. They wanted to come in and see my silver stash. I would not believe it if it did not just happen to me this morning. My wife is in disbelief and my Dad says we do not live in the same country anymore. It has not been the same country for a while now.

So a word of caution If this happened to me it is just a matter of time that someone is knocking on your doors. Be prepared. Another scary thing is that they showed me a law on paper that gives them the right to confiscate property (or in other words silver) if they feel you have carried out an illegal bank transaction which according to the law means several back to back transaction exceding $10,000 or more. I can provide the exact copy of this law and the wording to anyone who wishes to know it.

So what you thought they did not know about you they most certainly do.

...They know what you buy and when and where you buy it.

...They know where you search on the internet.

... They know where you live and work and where your family is.

... They can hear your phone conversations

... They can hear conversations inside your house via your cell phone even if you are not talking on your cell phone or when it is turned off. (So take your battery out if you want privacy at all).

This was a Sad and Scary wake up call of a day for me hope it does not happen to you. In the end they said they were satisfied that I was not a terrorist and would move on but I am still in shock. What a welcome back to the Great U.S of A!! God Bless.

Golden Silver

 

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[sniffer]

the NSA has computers that their only job is to look for key words, like bomb, osama, plastique,
and all the terrorist names of groups etc.
so even if you tried to mix up searches, it would still pick out the questionable ones

 

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[golden silver]

Hey John, thanks for your thoughts. My intent was not to go off in this direction but to just make everyone aware of what could be coming down the line. I don't want everyone to be at eachothers throats. Thanks again for all the feedback.

Golden Silver

 

[golden silver]

Here is the paper they made me sign and what it said if you all are interested. Read it carefully.

NOTIFICATION OF LAW

TITLE 31, UNITED STATES CODE, SECTIONS 5313 AND 5324

Title 31, United States Code, Section 5313, and its implementing regulation, 31 Code of Federal Regulations, Section 103.22, require banks and many other domestic financial institutions (defined at Title 31, United States Code, Section 5312) to file Currency Transaction Reports, Form 104, with the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network for all currency transactions in excess of $10,000.

Title 31, United States Code, Section 5324, prohibits individuals from causing a bank, or other domestic financial institution, to fail to file this report, or to cause a bank to file a false report, or to cause a bank to fail to maintain a record required or to maintain a record that contains a material omission or misstatement of fact. This same law prohibits individuals from structuring transactions to avoid the reporting and recordkeeping requirements.

Criminal violations of these code sections are punishable with prison sentences of up to ten years in Federal prison, and/or monetary fines equal to, or even greater than, the amount of the illegal transaction.

Title 31, United States Code, Section 5317(c)(2) authorizes the government to seize and forfeit property involved in a violation of Title 31, United States Code, Sections 5313 or 5324, or any conspiracy to commit any such violation, and any property traceable to any such violation , or conspiracy, in accordance with the procedures in Title 18, United States Code, Section 981(a)(1)(A).

You are hereby advised that any act in violation of Title 31, United States Code, Sections 5313 or 5324 could result in prosecution and/or seizure and forefeiture of all property involved in, or traceable to, such violation.

I have read this warning, and understand the above-referanced Federal laws.

 

[sniffer]

as near as I can tell, you haven't violated anything. they trying to throw a scare into you
because they spent all that time and effort and got egg on their face

 

[Scott (Mich)]

Golden Silver,

What I find hard to imagine is the NCIS people actually questioning you personally. You would think that if they were as smart as they want you to believe then they would not ever have to ever get to the point of letting themselves be known to you. Kind of watch you from a distance and then make a judgement. Unless they were told by their higher-ups to resolve your case and being in a hurry they thought they would just interrogate you and hope to get something they could not find by watching you.

If they track your every-going-ons then they would never have needed to speak to you, they would have studied every post you made here on T-Net and then they would have watched you and realized you were only a CRH-er and not a terrorist.

Lets see, they are competent enough to know exactly how much you search and when, but cannot figure out that you are just a hobbiest, maybe on a grand scale, but still a hobbiest. Hmm I can bet that they are reading this and every post here too.

Keep on searching GS, and now that you are free and clear you should ramp it up a bit lol.

Happy Hunting,

Scott (MI)

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

They were not necessarily looking at you for terrorism, banks are required to report transactions that are in excess of $10,000 to the government, they have been doing this for years now and this has been known by the public for years. This is probably why they had so much information on you. The reporting and tracking was originally started and done to trace and track drug dealers who try to hide the money, long before 9-11. If you were taking funds in excess of $10,000 out of one bank and depositing them in another bank it was a red flag, repeated instances were more red flags......

The same thing is more then likely happening happening to anyone who deposits amounts in excess of $10,000 from one bank to another......

 

[golden silver]

I am not sure Scott if you are implying that I am not telling the full truth. Well, I can't say I blame you. I heard someone else tell a similar story on here about a year ago or so and I was sceptical. I would be too if it did not happen to me. Why they bothered with me after they knew my CRHing activities? I can't tell you. Perhaps based on the law that I just posted they are required to search any and all questionable transactions at banks if they are notified by that bank. It did not matter if they believed I was just a hobbiest or if they thought I was a terrorist, they were doing what they are now mandated by the government to do. They did say at the end of the interrogation that they had already assumed before our interview that I was what I appeared to be on the surface but they had follow through to be completely sure and put themselves and the gov. at eaze. Strange story indeed I sware on my own life it is true. I do not intend to stop and I intend to do at least the same amount of searching. After all they did say as long as I don't change my story and remain transparent I can continue.

Golden Silver

 

[placerman]

Here is the paper they made me sign and what it said if you all are interested. Read it carefully.

Why would they ask you to sign this?

Are you required to sign it? Ive always been told never to sign anything like that without having a lawyer go over it first.

If you were in violation of any of it, I guarantee you would be in jail right now, just so they could say they did something after wasting so much money investigating you.

You need to do a few things...

First go talk to a lawyer, and I mean RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!!!! This is not over by any means I guarantee it. Tell the lawyer everything you have said here.

Second, join the ACLU. Personally I hate about 60% of what the ACLU stands for but they do look out for these kinds of abuses of power and they love to sue the federal government and make them look like fools.

Third, get out of the military. I'm sure for some people, that's all they can do and need the structured life to function, and claim some form of patriotism to mask their inability to make it in the real world. I don't think you are like that and in light of recent events they dont deserve to have you anyway.

 

[golden silver]

Treasure Hunter please read the law I posted above and the rest of my posts on this thread. I was never removing anywhere near 10,000 and most certainly not depositing it at other branches. Not at all. According to the law as I read it they can do this to anyone who they feel is suspicious. Their accusation of me was that I in some way was aware of the law and some how trying to avoid the 10,000 mark on purpose so as to avoid the red flags. I was unaware of this law that you purport to be common knowledge to everyone in America. Seems like many on this forum are not aware either. I was absolutely not doing anything illegal, hence the reason why I was not read my rights and taken into custody.

Golden silver

 

[obediah]

On a monthly basis I do violate this structuring deposits law & will continue to do it! If am charged will challenge the law itself as how can what am doing be a crime?

Were all criminals in this growing madd system that is consuming US.

 

[golden silver]

Placerman, I am sure you are well meaning in your comments on the millitary but I can assure you that many if not most of the members of our armed forces are their because they want to be and not because they had no other choice or could not make it in the real world. To the contrary I believe we millitary folk see the real life more often than civilians who go about their lives with little or no thought to the sacrafices being made overseas by so many brave men and women. I joined because I wanted to not because I could not hack it in society. I come from a long line of Patriots including my father Silver Slice and my Grandfathers etc. I am indeed a Son of a Son of a Sailor. God bless.

golden silver

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Treasure Hunter please read the law I posted above and the rest of my posts on this thread. I was never removing anywhere near 10,000 and most certainly not depositing it at other branches. Not at all. According to the law as I read it they can do this to anyone who they feel is suspicious. Their accusation of me was that I in some way was aware of the law and some how trying to avoid the 10,000 mark on purpose so as to avoid the red flags. I was unaware of this law that you purport to be common knowledge to everyone in America. Seems like many on this forum are not aware either. I was absolutely not doing anything illegal, hence the reason why I was not read my rights and taken into custody.

Golden silver

Golden, first I have no doubt you were not doing anything illegal, and I never meant to imply you were. If it appears I was I apologize.

I do think they thought you were trying to circumvent the law for money laundering by doing it in smaller amounts that added up and caught a banks offical eye.

"The Bank Secrecy Act of 1970 (or BSA, or otherwise known as the Currency and Foreign Transactions Reporting Act) requires financial institutions in the United States to assist U.S. government agencies to detect and prevent money laundering. Specifically, the act requires financial institutions to keep records of [cash purchases of negotiable instruments, and file reports of cash purchases of these negotiable instruments of $3,000 or more (daily aggregate amount), and to report suspicious activity that might signify money laundering, tax evasion, or other criminal activities. Many banks will no longer sell negotiable instruments when purchased with cash, requiring the purchase to be withdrawn from an account at that institution. BSA was passed by the Congress of the United States in 1970. The BSA is sometimes referred to as an "anti-money laundering" law ("AML") or jointly as “BSA/AML”. Several anti-money laundering acts, including provisions in title III of the USA PATRIOT Act, have been enacted up to the present to amend the BSA. (See 31 USC 5311-5330 and 31 CFR 103.)

"The BSA regulations require all financial institutions to submit five types of reports to the government. (not an exhaustive list of reports)

FinCEN Form 104 Currency Transaction Report (CTR): A CTR must be filed for each deposit, withdrawal, exchange of currency, or other payment or transfer, by, through or to a financial institution, which involves a transaction in currency of more than $10,000. Multiple currency transactions must be treated as a single transaction if the financial institution has knowledge that: (a) they are conducted by or on behalf of the same person; and, (b) they result in cash received or disbursed by the financial institution of more than $10,000. (31 CFR 103.22)
FinCEN Form 105 Report of International Transportation of Currency or Monetary Instruments (CMIR): Each person (including a bank) who physically transports, mails or ships, or causes to be physically transported, mailed, shipped or received, currency, traveler’s checks, and certain other monetary instruments in an aggregate amount exceeding $10,000 into or out of the United States must file a CMIR
Department of the Treasury Form 90-22.1 Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR): Each person (including a bank) subject to the jurisdiction of the United States having an interest in, signature or other authority over, one or more bank, securities, or other financial accounts in a foreign country must file an FBAR if the aggregate value of such accounts at any point in a calendar year exceeds $10,000. (31 CFR 103.24)
Treasury Department Form 90-22.47 and OCC Form 8010-9, 8010-1 Suspicious Activity Report (SAR): Banks must file a SAR for any suspicious transaction relevant to a possible violation of law or regulation. (31 CFR 103.18 − formerly 31 CFR 103.21) (12 CFR 12.11)
"Designation of Exempt Person" FinCEN Form 110: Banks must file this form to designate an exempt customer for the purpose of CTR reporting under the BSA (31 CFR 103.22(d)(3)(i)). In addition, banks use this form biennially (every two years) to renew exemptions for eligible non-listed business and payroll customers. (31 CFR 103.22(d)(5)(i))
It also requires any business receiving one or more related cash payments totalling $10,000 or more to file form 8300."

 

[jeff of pa]

Here is the paper they made me sign and what it said if you all are interested. Read it carefully.

NOTIFICATION OF LAW

TITLE 31, UNITED STATES CODE, SECTIONS 5313 AND 5324

Title 31, United States Code, Section 5313, and its implementing regulation, 31 Code of Federal Regulations, Section 103.22, require banks and many other domestic financial institutions (defined at Title 31, United States Code, Section 5312) to file Currency Transaction Reports, Form 104, with the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network for all currency transactions in excess of $10,000.

Title 31, United States Code, Section 5324, prohibits individuals from causing a bank, or other domestic financial institution, to fail to file this report, or to cause a bank to file a false report, or to cause a bank to fail to maintain a record required or to maintain a record that contains a material omission or misstatement of fact. This same law prohibits individuals from structuring transactions to avoid the reporting and recordkeeping requirements.

Criminal violations of these code sections are punishable with prison sentences of up to ten years in Federal prison, and/or monetary fines equal to, or even greater than, the amount of the illegal transaction.

Title 31, United States Code, Section 5317(c)(2) authorizes the government to seize and forfeit property involved in a violation of Title 31, United States Code, Sections 5313 or 5324, or any conspiracy to commit any such violation, and any property traceable to any such violation , or conspiracy, in accordance with the procedures in Title 18, United States Code, Section 981(a)(1)(A).

You are hereby advised that any act in violation of Title 31, United States Code, Sections 5313 or 5324 could result in prosecution and/or seizure and forefeiture of all property involved in, or traceable to, such violation.

I have read this warning, and understand the above-referanced Federal laws.

what I See"

"they knew that when tellers asked me what I do with the coin I change stories and don't tell the truth like so many on this website"

See : Title 31, United States Code, Section 5324to cause a bank to file a false report

Since They have to report Large Transactions,
by lying to them, You have done this.

the 10,000 Mark may have saved you though

So Be carefull

 

[DigginThePast]

They want you to be transparent. Do over $10,000 EVERY time. Let the bank do the paperwork EVERY time. You'll also have the opportunity to find more silver.

 

[golden silver]

Funny though I changed my story I never once indicated that I was doing something other than collecting the coin or trying to sell them on ebay.

GS

 

[golden silver]

I wonder if guys like silver cop that are doing 20,000 plus are getting this type of treatment. Do you have to fill out any special forms?

Golden Silver

 

[obediah]

As far as answering questions from bank tellers I'm always vague in my answers, so far not one has asked me another question to get a better answer- like where do you get all those coins, I just say from allover or if they say you must of been saving them for long time, simply say yeah. Quite fronkly it is none of their business or the Law's either, Constitutionally we have right to privacy and do NOT have to answer their questions.

If we surrender our rights we have none, if we KNOW them and STAND on them we can prevail without bowing to lawlessness, and maybe educate the enforcers tothe FACT they are serving evil and violating Constituion[al] principals.

 

[obediah]

They want you to be transparent. Do over $10,000 EVERY time. Let the bank do the paperwork EVERY time. You'll also have the opportunity to find more silver.

Someone in Fla had his bank close his accounts (3) for ding this consistently they complained it caused them too much paperwork filing to be in compliance with Feds. Saw it posted on this Forum month or two ago.

 

[DigginThePast]

They want you to be transparent. Do over $10,000 EVERY time. Let the bank do the paperwork EVERY time. You'll also have the opportunity to find more silver.

Someone in Fla had his bank close his accounts (3) for ding this consistently they complained it caused them too much paperwork filing to be in compliance with Feds. Saw it posted on this Forum month or two ago.

Guess they'll get you coming or going. I do remember reading that now that you mentioned it.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I wonder if guys like silver cop that are doing 20,000 plus are getting this type of treatment. Do you have to fill out any special forms?

Golden Silver

I am willing to bet a lot have been reported already, it is up to the back officials it was reported to by the teller, and to the investigator assigned to the case to investigate it how far it goes, if they decide there is nothing to it the hunter will probably never know they were looked at......