A SAD DAY... Big Brother IS Watching...Some advice for you all.

[golden silver]

Today was a sad and alarming day for me guys. I know some of you have your own stories to tell but now I Golden Silver have one of my own. Are you sitting down? Today I was interogated by NCIS. To those who do not know that is the Military's form of the FBI. I will try and make this brief but it probably won't be.

At first I did not know why I was there but then I remembered another member of this forum telling a story about getting pulled aside at his bank and asked questions by the FBI. I have to be honest I am not sure I bought the story completely until now. They began by asking me my backround information and asked me if I handle a lot of money on the regular basis. I said that I did. Then they proceded to ask how many bank accounts that I have and I was up front and honest. I told them about 10 and where I had them. They asked me why I had them and I explained this hobbie. I am sorry but In this instance I think I am allowed to break rules #1 and #2 of CRHing. It is noteworthy to mention that they were stone faced and serious durring the entire questioning. I was very nervous but stayed straight faced and tried to appear calm because I knew if I was jittery they would be suspicious of my nervousness. They asked me how much a week I went through and how much money per year have I gone through. I said that I was not completely sure but it was over $200,000. Can you believe this guys but they new exactly how much I had gone through. They said it was more like $300,000. What they did next shocked me even more. They pulled out of a black bag a box full of torn wrappers. Lo and behold it was one of my boxes I had thrown away months ago in a dumpster. They had it in their possession. They then asked me if I had been to Harper Ferry West Va. and I said yes. Believe it or not they knew all the road trips I had been on and where. They asked if I had gone to Casinos and I said that I had not. They found it very odd that I did the amount of searching that I had done and that it was actually worth my time. I said that it was worth my time and that I plan on selling some for a down payment on a house. I explained my plans only because they asked what I was doing with the coin. I repeated over and over again that it was just a hobbie and that I am a sailor working to provide for my family and do this to help me save for the future. To show the extent of how much they know...they knew that when tellers asked me what I do with the coin I change stories and don't tell the truth like so many on this website. They knew that sometimes I would dump several thousand at different banks on the same day. All of this drew attention to them.

The Climax of the story and the most shocking part I think is that they followed me to my home. They wanted to come in and see my silver stash. I would not believe it if it did not just happen to me this morning. My wife is in disbelief and my Dad says we do not live in the same country anymore. It has not been the same country for a while now.

So a word of caution If this happened to me it is just a matter of time that someone is knocking on your doors. Be prepared. Another scary thing is that they showed me a law on paper that gives them the right to confiscate property (or in other words silver) if they feel you have carried out an illegal bank transaction which according to the law means several back to back transaction exceding $10,000 or more. I can provide the exact copy of this law and the wording to anyone who wishes to know it.

So what you thought they did not know about you they most certainly do.

...They know what you buy and when and where you buy it.

...They know where you search on the internet.

... They know where you live and work and where your family is.

... They can hear your phone conversations

... They can hear conversations inside your house via your cell phone even if you are not talking on your cell phone or when it is turned off. (So take your battery out if you want privacy at all).

This was a Sad and Scary wake up call of a day for me hope it does not happen to you. In the end they said they were satisfied that I was not a terrorist and would move on but I am still in shock. What a welcome back to the Great U.S of A!! God Bless.

Golden Silver

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Upgraded Night Vision Monocular Digital Infrared Monocular Telescope for 100% Darkness with 8X Zoom - Grab it through Amazon!

[DigginThePast]

The problem I really have with all of this is this. Golden silver over the course of 3 years handled about $300,000 in transactions which averages out to less than $2000 per week. He also stated that he used 10 accounts. With that amount spread out that way there should not have been any red flags raised at all. Income should not come into play as he would have withdrawals to offset deposits.

So my question is. Did they suspect golden silver of something else (as suggested above) and were following him or do they monitor a much smaller amount than they claim?

Golden silver, your name, due to being the same as another (I'm surmising here), may be on the terror watch list. I think if I were in your shoes I would be a little proactive and try to find out from where all of this stemmed. There could be something that you need to take care.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

How to Research for Treasure Hunting and Metal Detecting From Lead Generation to Vetting - Grab it through Amazon!

[golden silver]

Jim4silver, Likewise with the respect. Thank you. People will speculate I am sure. It could be that I am millitary and have access that made them more concerned but I am not the first person that this has happened to on this forum I hope I am the last. As strange as you say this whole thing is, I agree with you. In fact that is what I mentioned to the investigator before I left the room is that I cannot believe this amount of time and energy was spent on me for just having a hobbie. I felt almost guilty in a way, even though I had done nothing. Jim I have to ask if you read the Title 31 law that I posted. That whole law I was completely unaware of and the language of confescation of property gives me chills. Like somebody mentioned earlier, it could be that guys like mojo or silvercop who do large volume have raised a flag of concern but they simply have not been confronted. Perhaps those who are watching are satisfied knowing what they know about their habits. I don't know my friend. I am putting this out there to share, to vent, to calm myself and to make sure you all are aware. I value your opinion and we are all sure entitled to one.

Golden Silver

 

[DigginThePast]

.

 

[golden silver]

Rich, LOl I love it!! Are you trying to get a rise out of someone? Giddy, you sure seem to know a good bit about investigation and time frames and such. It is quite interesting that you just popped up and sent your first message in this thread too. I am watching you bub cuz you are watchin me

golden silver

 

[jim4silver]

Jim I have to ask if you read the Title 31 law that I posted. That whole law I was completely unaware of and the language of confescation of property gives me chills.
Golden Silver

GS,

I have read that law before. It only means if a person is actually breaking the law, the gov can confiscate the proceeds from that behavior. It is like this in most fed laws, from insider trading to ponzi schemes.

If a person is not violating the law as spelled out in that statute they cannot just take your stuff.

Jim

 

[placerman]

Jim4silver I wasnt talking about you....lol

 

[jim4silver]

Jim4silver I wasnt talking about you....lol

I saw that you were referring to somebody else and deleted my post.

Sorry about that.

Jim

 

[golden silver]

Jim, It is this portion I am refering to. It sure sounds as though there are some loop holes here.

"Title 31, United States Code, Section 5324, prohibits individuals from causing a bank, or other domestic financial institution, to fail to file this report, or to cause a bank to file a false report, or to cause a bank to fail to maintain a record required or to maintain a record that contains a material omission or misstatement of fact. This same law prohibits individuals from structuring transactions to avoid the reporting and recordkeeping requirements. "

golden silver

 

[DigginThePast]

In regards to Title 31 and structuring of deposits. I don't see how this would come into play.

Say John Doe takes $5000 out of savings and purchases halves with it. John keeps any finds and dumps the rest (deposits) at his dump bank. John then uses that same money for his next purchase at his buy bank and starts the cycle over.

With the exception of finds he is using the same money over and over. Anyone with half a brain doing an investigation would be able to see both the deposits and the withdrawals, it wouldn't look as if it were all deposits without a paper trail of where the money came from.

 

[Rich Hartford]

Jim I have to ask if you read the Title 31 law that I posted. That whole law I was completely unaware of and the language of confescation of property gives me chills.
Golden Silver

GS,

I have read that law before. It only means if a person is actually breaking the law, the gov can confiscate the proceeds from that behavior. It is like this in most fed laws, from insider trading to ponzi schemes.

If a person is not violating the law as spelled out in that statute they cannot just take your stuff.

Jim

Jim,
In the real world of cops and robbers it's pretty close to a tie as to who steals the most. They can take your stuff,and uckfay you up,just because they feel like it. That's reality. Of course this statement does not apply to honest cops who know what I am talking about.
Rich

 

[bigwater]

I guess I'm naive, but I fail to see the purpose in using multiple banks to do these transactions and be all sneaky about it. Maybe it's because I live in a small town where everybody knows me, but I have no doubt I could go to anyof the three banks I have accounts with here and take all the halves, and bring back the remainders the next day and deposit them with nothing other than a cheerful smile from the tellers.

Is it paranoia that the tellers are gonna start splitting open rolls once they catch on to what you're doing, or what? I've never roll hunted, so I just don't get the mindset. It would seem to me that if you're ordering a box of rolled halves they've got to wonder what you're doing in the first place. Why not be up front with them and just tell them. I'm a coin collector and looking for rare coins that may have not made it out of circulation yet.

Another question. I know there are many metal detectors on the market that discriminate between different types of metal. Is there not one that will pick up just on the one silver in a roll so you don't have to bust open each and every roll and go through them one by one to determine if they're worth anything?

Again, pardon my naivete

 

[placerman]

Jim, It is this portion I am refering to. It sure sounds as though there are some loop holes here.

"Title 31, United States Code, Section 5324, prohibits individuals from causing a bank, or other domestic financial institution, to fail to file this report, or to cause a bank to file a false report, or to cause a bank to fail to maintain a record required or to maintain a record that contains a material omission or misstatement of fact. This same law prohibits individuals from structuring transactions to avoid the reporting and recordkeeping requirements. "

golden silver

I think this means something like making 10,000 or more in deposits over a day or two days, but depositing it in smaller increments purposefully in order to avoid those record keeping requirements.

As long as you aren't doing 10000 a week I doubt you have anything to worry about and even if you were, it would easy very easy to explain what you were doing.

With that said, next time let your lawyer explain it to them.

 

[giddyup99]

Rich, LOl I love it!! Are you trying to get a rise out of someone? Giddy, you sure seem to know a good bit about investigation and time frames and such. It is quite interesting that you just popped up and sent your first message in this thread too. I am watching you bub cuz you are watchin me

golden silver

I can leave as fast as I came..... 8)........sorry for the poor timing on my first post. I thought it was a good entry to treasurenet, no? I do know about bank investigations, reporting requirements, and follow through interrogations. I'm not a cop, nor a federal agent. I hope I'm not scaring anyone from using this forum the way they normally would. I suspect those who would be hesitant to post due to "big brother" probably hasn't been affected by my "sudden appearance", they didn't post anyway.

I guess I really didn't think my post would raise any questions about my career choices. If I was a good agent assigned to watch the board and gather information, I would have been a top poster on this board and would have the confidence of all the regular posters in order to disguise my real intentions.

I think we should find out how well we all know the top 10 posters on this board......

Of course I am just kidding. Please, everyone, sleep well tonight. I'm not a federali.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I agree with Giddyup, I think because of Golden Silver's searching he raised some red flags and that is what caused it.

I think the seizure laws that are in place are a violation of our rights, the government can seize sums of money in excess of $10,000 found in your car on a traffic stop and you have to prove it is yours, instead of them proving it is not... just like the Patriot Act, we are losing freedoms guaranteed in the Constitition in the name of protecting our freedoms from others.....

I also do not think Giddyup is a FED, just another TN member just like the rest of us, contrary to what some people may think Feds are not stupid bumbling fools.........

 

[giddyup99]

In regards to Title 31 and structuring of deposits. I don't see how this would come into play.

Say John Doe takes $5000 out of savings and purchases halves with it. John keeps any finds and dumps the rest (deposits) at his dump bank. John then uses that same money for his next purchase at his buy bank and starts the cycle over.

With the exception of finds he is using the same money over and over. Anyone with half a brain doing an investigation would be able to see both the deposits and the withdrawals, it wouldn't look as if it were all deposits without a paper trail of where the money came from.

What if he keeps introducing new money to this cycle? And subsequently cycles old money out after he has changed it out? With the amount of withdrawals and deposits we are discussing, no one could connect a withdrawal from one bank, or two, a large counter cash purchase at another, then subsequent deposits spread out over several banks. If we were talking about a transaction a week, with a matching deposit at another institution - Yeah, it would be fairly easy to investigate that activity.

 

[NaturalJWL]

Rich has such a way with words! LOL

 

[golden silver]

I think nyangelo said it best in the other thread.

"I suppose if you were open with the tellers and manager about what you were doing, and they were OK with it, and fully understood what was going on, and you never came close to triggering any of the automatic reports, you would never have to worry about having to talk to an LEO, but in reality, the law of averages means we will most likely eventually get “interrogated” if we do this long enough."

Like I said no one is immune and I think if you do this hobbie you should read his thread as well and get some learnin on. It is located on the bottom of the forom list page.

Golden Silver

 

[placerman]

I think nyangelo said it best in the other thread.

"I suppose if you were open with the tellers and manager about what you were doing, and they were OK with it, and fully understood what was going on, and you never came close to triggering any of the automatic reports, you would never have to worry about having to talk to an LEO, but in reality, the law of averages means we will most likely eventually get “interrogated” if we do this long enough."

Like I said no one is immune and I think if you do this hobbie you should read his thread as well and get some learnin on. It is located on the bottom of the forom list page.

Golden Silver

All that work and nyangelo gets the credit.

Oh well....lol

 

[golden silver]

Correction it was Placerman's thread. My apologies. Thanks for the hard work Placer!!!! It is stuff like this that makes the forum awesome. Great contribution.

golden silver

 

[DigginThePast]

In regards to Title 31 and structuring of deposits. I don't see how this would come into play.

Say John Doe takes $5000 out of savings and purchases halves with it. John keeps any finds and dumps the rest (deposits) at his dump bank. John then uses that same money for his next purchase at his buy bank and starts the cycle over.

With the exception of finds he is using the same money over and over. Anyone with half a brain doing an investigation would be able to see both the deposits and the withdrawals, it wouldn't look as if it were all deposits without a paper trail of where the money came from.

What if he keeps introducing new money to this cycle? And subsequently cycles old money out after he has changed it out? With the amount of withdrawals and deposits we are discussing, no one could connect a withdrawal from one bank, or two, a large counter cash purchase at another, then subsequent deposits spread out over several banks. If we were talking about a transaction a week, with a matching deposit at another institution - Yeah, it would be fairly easy to investigate that activity.

Obviously if he introduces a large sum (beyond his means) of money that would raise a flag but the reality of coin roll hunting is that there just isn't that many finds consistently waiting. You may hit a good score here and there but out of $2000 per week the amount of finds would not total very much.

As for connecting deposits and withdrawals. If the Feds are doing an investigation they will have access to all his accounts and yes someone will be able to draw a correlation between them (unless it really is structuring, then there would be no correlation between deposits and withdrawls).