CIRCA 1900 FRAMED BASEBALL PICTURE

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

"Play Ball"

I went to a swap meet recently and purchased an old, framed baseball player photo that I paid $10.00 for. I have already done quite a bit of research on it that can best be summed up with the following which is how I came up with a date of circa 1900 ... (Also see pictures).

1. The seller said he found it in a box of other junk and didn't know anything about it.
2. The frame is made of tin ~ Appears Victorian ~ Hand painted floral ~ Fold-out standee on back.
3. The frame is oval and measures 3 1/2" x 2 1/2"
4. The photo is sepa colored (brownish) and was developed in an oval shape then cut to fit.

5. Regarding the uniform ...

Uniform Parts:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Caps - 1888 - Spalding:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Shoes - 1883 - Spalding: National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Collar - Last Used 1906
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Beltless - First Used circa 1910
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Earliest Numbering of Jerseys - 1907-09
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Baseball History - First Major Leagues 1871 thru 1875
History of baseball in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grain Elevators: Grain Elevators -- History

Pictures, etc ...


1. Framed Photo.

2. Photo Only.

3. Frame and Back. (Glass Not Shown).

4. Cropped Photo. I cannot read the words on the grain elevator.

Shoes from above link ~ He appears to be wearing #1 ~ Solid black high top. Ad is from 1883 Spalding catalog.

Cap ~ Appears to be either #11 or #19 ~ Mulit-sectioned top part. Ad is from 1888 Spalding catalog. I can't tell in my photo if the player is wearing a short or a long bill cap.

Uniform Pants/Beltless ~ Player in my photo is wearing a belt. Belts were last used on uniforms around 1910. This picture is the earliest known example that shows a beltless player and is dated 1913. It is said that prior to 1913 most players wore belts until they were discouraged and possibly even banned because defensive players would sometimes grab hold of the belt to stop an advancing runner.


Footnotes:

1. The Major Leagues were first introduced around 1871 to 1875.
2. Uniform numbering was first introduced in Major Leagues around 1907-1909. (My player has no visible number on his jersey.
3. Uniform "Collars" were last used around 1906. My player's jersey appears to have a collar.

Bottom Line Questions ...

1. Can you think of anything I missed?
2. do you agree with the circa 1900 date?
3. Do you think the player is ... Hometown Team ~ Farm/Minor League ~ Major League?
4. Can you think of any way to identify the location?
5. And what about the grain elevetor? Any clues there? Midwest?

6. And most important of all, do you happen to recognize The Player?

Thanks in advance for your time and interest. I realize I am asking some tough questions that may be impossible to answer, but I thought it would be fun anyway because Baseball season is upon us and I know there are a lot of fans out there like myself.

Sodabottlebob

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Currently I am trying to determine what those two "pyramid shapes" are next to the elevator on the right. I'm thinking they might be piles of coal.

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Currently I am trying to determine what those two (possibly three) "pyramid shapes" are next to the elevator on the right. I'm thinking they might be piles of coal.

View attachment 641008

View attachment 641009

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

So far the wording that has worked the best for me is coal tower, as opposed to "elevator" that seems to produce fewer results. As crazy as this sounds, both of the main structures might be coal towers and not grain elevators. I'm trying my best to determine which they are, but its not easy.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I think I just opened a can of worms. Most coal towers seem to have large "shutes" instead of auger pipes, but not all of them do as evidenced in my last posting. I'm really liking the shapes of coal tower headhouses, too ... most are similar to the one in my photo. I just wish we could see what's at the base of the structures in my photo, and whether or not they have pull-through loading docks where a train might have passed.

Dang! This is like starting all over again. I'm not sure what to make of this.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I am also trying to determine what the "horizonal line" is on the left that I highlighted here in red. Presently I don't have a clue what it is, but I'm not going to assume its a structure just yet until further examination. But it's definitely something. There is even appears to be a similar line on the far right, which might be a distant horizon - hard to say for sure.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Obviously this is not the same structure. I'm just posting it to show what some of the coal tower shutes look like. Notice the support underneath that "might" be what the verticle line is at the lower end of the auger/shute in my photo. And those "might" even be coal piles that the shute/auger is going into.

 

[JasShapiro]

Bob, I had considered that horizontal line to be a smoke trail. Also, it seems possible that the blur under the players right arm is a part of that same trail. It gives the impression of being a movement blur but at 5X zoom in photoshop the arm shows no other signs of blur and is a different hue and texture.
I know you've nixed the idea of a train...but you asked .
Regards,
Jason

 

[DeerStalker]

I know you say that it is sky and not a building, but I believe his arm is hiding the roof of the building. That lower line is too perfectly straight to be just sky, and notice how perfectly squared off it is in the trees on the other side of the river? I still think it's a covered bridge.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

The only thing I changed here on my paint job was to add (darken) what might be coal piles. This is getting real close to what I see with the loupe. Now all I need to do is figure out what that mysterious horizinal line is.

 

[JasShapiro]

No one else sees a house here? Complete with the shadow of the tree standing next to it, exactly as the shadow should appear?

I'm gonna go get my eyes checked.
Jason

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

If everyone could see the photo with the loupe (as I am getting better at every day) you would clearly see that the so called straight line under his arm is actually a part of his arm (blurred) and is not the top of a building. The tip of his elbow is actually the upper part of a tree. Everyone is welcome to see and believe what they wish, but if you are seeking the truth as I am, then please trust in at least some of my observations. There is definitely a river or canal in the photo, and those are definitely tree trunks in front of the white dots.

For me it still boils down to what I have suggested several times ... its the roof we need to be focusing on. And that roof could very well be the roof of a coal tower.

Thanks again to everyonre. And please know that I am doing my best here and trying desperately to solve this. And please be reminded that assumption and speculation can often do more harm than good.

Respectfully,

Bob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I realize how all of this may be driving some of you nuts, which I can relate to myself. But if you realized how incredibly small and blurred some of the details are, then you might understand my personal frustrations. Its becoming a process of elimination trying to figure out what is and what isn't.

Take for example the angled lines I have highlighted below in red. Lines like that have to be "something" and are not just random nothings. It almost looks like another structure, possibly even another tower or elevator. But it's so faint that even with the loupe it's almost impossible to say for certain ... especially when the foreground tree branches distort things. But what else would explain those three little dark dots that look like windows? There may be a huge complex of some kind on the far side of the river, and the horizonal line "might" be the top of a wharehouse.


Use the Previous/First ~ Last/Next clicking that I mentioned earlier.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Coal Town Baseball ...

e-WV | Coalfield Baseball
Ball, Bat, and Bitumen: A History of Coalfield Baseball in the Appalachian South - L.M Sutter - Google Books
Coal Region History Chronicles: When Baseball Was A Passion
[url]http://www.schuylkillchamber.com/history.htm[/URL]
[url]http://www.kymem.org/helenphotoalbum.htm[/URL]
[url]http://dmbworldseriesreplay.wordpress.com/2010/04/19/dmb-world-series-biography-buck-freeman/[/URL]

An early view of Hecla, showing the Hecla No.1 Mine coal company water reservior and baseball field to the right.

(Courtesy of the Coal Mining Archives of the Latrobe Area Historical Society, Latrobe, PA)

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Despite these recent and so called "new discoveries" of mine, I am officially calling it ...

Quits! Unsolvable!

I have come to the realization that irregardless of who, what, where or when the photo was taken, or whether it's of a grain elevator or a coal tower, or a minor league or major league player, there just isn't enough of anything about the photo I can put my finger on that will positively identify it for me. It could be any one of hundreds of small towns across the country, or even the outskirts of a major city. Its just impossible to say and, unfortunately, I no longer have the time necessary to conduct searches that always wind up in dead-end alleys.

Aside from the roof design, which has been my favorite clue and focus from the beginning, there just aren't enough other clues that I haven't already considered and followed up on, the results of which were always the same - zilch - nada - nothing!

If others wish to continue searching, that's fine. I will be happy to assist you all I can. And to those like myself who have racked their brains to the point of lunacy, and who also intend to bail out, I say, "Do it now before you completly lose your marbles like I have."


You know me, I'll be around and likely add a tid-bit or two from time to time. But other than that, for me this is ...

The End!

Thanks again to everyone for your valuable time and very much appreciated interest and contributions regarding this topic.

Sincerely,

Sodabottlebob

From now on, just call me "Goofy"

 

[zendog64]

Believe it or not, the very first time I saw the picture (and being from the Pennsylvania Coal Region myself) I immediately thought of a coal breaker rather than a grain elevator, but I quickly nixed that idea because all coalbreakers and collieries have chutes.

Considering that there were an estimated 20,000 grain elevators at the time (and I'm guessing an equal amount of coal breakers), I think the only real hope is to come across a duplicate of the photo somewhere, and the odds of there being a duplicate photo looks pretty slim.

But, on the bright side, I think that we've all stared at this mystery picture so many times by now that I'm 100% sure we'll be able to spot it if we see it!

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

zen ~

As always, thanks.

Here's one for the road. Another mystery angle. It has to be something, but what?

You'll have to click/enlarge ~ previous/next to see it. It's behind the trees in the distance.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

As zen said earlier, "I'm 100% sure we'll be able to spot it if we see it!"

The picture below is intended to assist future research that might develop from this thread. Notice that both elevators are about the same distance away and about the same height, and yet you will immediately notice a distinct difference in the roofs. If and when a matching elevator is found like the one in my photo, it no doubt will be something like the one on the left. And irregardless of the height or distance, it should still be easily recognizable ... maybe.

Thanks again.

Bob


The location of these two elevators is currently unknown to me. The source did not say. If the one on the left had a more sharply sloped headhouse roof, I'd be all over it like white on rice!

 

[mick56]

I think the key to this is to have a photo shop enlarge and enhance it. (The police shows on tv do it all the time.)

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I think the key to this is to have a photo shop enlarge and enhance it. (The police shows on tv do it all the time.)

mick56 ~

I thought of the same thing, and even looked into it briefly. But the expense vs the results it would produce just don't warrant having it done. Irregardless of exacting detail, I feel it still comes down to finding a matching picture of one or all three of the structures. If I knew with 100% certainty that an enhanced enlargement would tell us what the words said, then I might have it done. But as it stands now, I'm not willing to pay $100+ on a gamble.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Bob

Here's my own enhancement (Vision) that I have come to think of as ...

"The Bird House grain elevator."

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I'm not saying this is the one, but after studying it I'm sure you will see why it sparked my interest. If nothing else, it at least confirms that the type of grain elevator I have been envisioning does exist. Of the hundreds of different elevators I have seen pictures of, this is the closest one yet ... in my opinion. The Google Earth images are from 2011, and because the elevator is show, I am assuming it is still standing. It could have been maintained over the years and repainted.


Morse, Sakatchewan, Canada

http://www.bctpro.net/townofmorse/index.htm

Pictures ... (Click to enlarge for details).

1. Grain Elevator : Morse, Saskatchewan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2. My original photo for comparison.

3. Google Earth : Overall View of Morse.

4. Google Earth : The red arrows point to the elevator itself, and what appear to be several baseball fields and a railroad line. (unconfirmed).

5. Google Earth : One of the baseball fields in relation to the elevator.

6. Google Earth : Close up of what appears to be one of the baseball fields to the northeast. If that's not a baseball field, then what is it? Of course, if they are baseball fields, they could be new and not there in the early 1900s.

I intend to research this further. Plus, I intend to study the elevator as well to see just how close in style it actually is compared to the one in my photo. All of this may be nothing more than just another wild goose chase, but it's the closest thing I've seen yet as a possible - even though that possibility might be a remote one.

Thanks.

Bob