Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

[Bill]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

At the time mentioned, it was ONLY the Spanish.

 

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[Tuberale]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

At the time mentioned, it was ONLY the Spanish.

Sorry, no. Portuguese were there too.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

I never said our fore fathers treated the indians properly, I said for the most part they did not honor the treaties.....

Who was it that landed here in 1492 and claimed the land for their king, it was Spain, and you really dont want to talk about the Indians, considering what Spain did to the Indians when they came to the Americas, they raped, killed and tortured all they could get their hands on, destroying the Aztec, Inca and Maya civilizations as well as many other smaller civilizations......

You try to make it sound as if Spain was the only country guilty of these atrocities. Shame on you for trying to skew and distort history in an attempt to villainize the Spanish.

SVR, I'm not, if you read the thread you would see that post was in reply to MORE AND BEYOND OSSY post about Americas's treatment of the Indians, Spanish were here raping and pillaging the indian population and land in their search for gold and silver for 250+ years before we were even a country as were the Portuguese. The Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire began in February 1519 and was acclaimed victorious on August 13, 1521 by Spain.....

 

[Bill]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

"Who was it that landed here in 1492 and claimed the land for their king,"
I posted "At the time mentioned". Did I not?

 

[old man]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

"Who was it that landed here in 1492 and claimed the land for their king,"
I posted "At the time mentioned". Did I not?

Bill, I'm a little slow, so please bear with me and I will take a long shot at answering your question. Let's see 1492. Columbus I believe was Italian ( or was that Polish ?) and I think the Queen of Spain outfitted him with Ships from Spain for his venture.

I don't think some people understand that we aren't talking about race here. I think this all started about Greed. So for everyone of Spanish Blood, let me be the first one to tell you that in my Opinion the North American Politician, without regard to race is about as Greedy as they come. They love to fill their own pockets with money. I don't imagine that the Politicians in any other Country are much different.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Spain has clearly stated it never abandon any of it's ships
Ossy

History proves otherwise. Archival accounts of Spain abandoning ships span centuries!

"Armenta then returned to Havana with this treasure and ceased diving operations, claiming that the small amount they were then recovering were not sufficient to counteract the high costs of protecting the sites."

So here we have the King's Representative ceasing salvage operations on the 1715 Fleet.
Spain very often salvaged their wrecks. When they ceased salvage operations they abandoned the wrecks.

Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary defines abandoned as:

1 a : left without needed protection or care
▪ an abandoned baby

b : left by the owner
▪ an abandoned house/car

c : no longer held or thought of : given up
▪ abandoned [=forsaken] hopes/dreams

As one can see these definitions apply to virtually all of “Spain’s” shipwrecks.

 

[old man]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Treasure Hunter & Au-Dreamer, It's refreshing to read you intelligent reports.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

You try to make it sound as if Spain was the only country guilty of these atrocities. Shame on you for trying to skew and distort history in an attempt to villainize the Spanish.

[/quote]

Ive been reading the thread, no need to insult my intelligence. I didn't read it that way...

The thread took a terrible dive downhill after this uneducated analogy and cheap-shot @ Spain:

Spain has no more of a claim to the gold than Germany does to the gold stolen by Nazis during WWII......

Just like all of the other Odyssey threads...civility is out the window, and history gets butchered/misrepresented in a vain attempt to advance an agenda.
[/quote]

I don't read him as trying to make it sound like Spain was the only country. It is the country of the subject matter. He never once used the word “only”. Maybe it’s your point of view that makes you read it that way. He posted facts, where is the distortion, skewing?

Are you saying Spain's actions are excusable because others countries have committed atrocities?

He didn’t villainize Spain- Spain villainized Spain by their own accord.

How is it an uneducated analogy and a cheap shot?
You mean the factual past isn’t allowed into conversation?
We’re not allowed to talk about “dirty secrets in the closet”?

So you’re claiming that Spain didn’t “considering what Spain did to the Indians when they came to the Americas, they raped, killed and tortured all they could get their hands on, destroying the Aztec, Inca and Maya civilizations as well as many other smaller civilizations” ?

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Hey, I live in Maryland and if I go to Assateague island National Park with a metal detector, you will see me behind bars soon.

Yes because you would be violating written law! A non-ambiguous written law!
OM had a legal agreement to search and recover the artifacts in question.

Someone within Spain is interpreting the written law differently than those that wrote the agreement with OM. So in this world of sue for greed, sue for greed, sue for greed, this gets locked up in a court system.

Has the U.S ever made comment on the illegal boarding of an American vessel at sea?
What about the illegal detainment of American citizens and their property?

Are you an American?
Doesn’t that piss you off?

Oh I guess our Secretary of State wouldn’t want to undermine her friend’s lawsuit!

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

I'm saying exactly what I posted.

If you have some real questions for me, and not rhetorical comments disguised as real questions...please ask them.

If you need help in how to use the QUOTE feature to make your posts more orderly, I will assist you in that, as well

Well then why don't you read other posts for "exactly" what is written instead of your biased misread interpretation? Ya know using the same playing field for all...


My questions were very simple and direct! If you don't want to answer them it's ok

Nope the quote works well for me, sorry it doesn't for you, but thanks for the offer.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

So you're stating you don't want to answer the questions? I thought so...

 

[Dano Sverige]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

I brought this subject up on another thread not long ago...it caused chaos there too!

I'll stay out of this one. Carry on.

 

[architecad]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

I brought this subject up on another thread not long ago...it caused chaos there too!

I'll stay out of this one. Carry on.

Any subject here in this forum has the high potential to cause chaos!!

Arch

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

I never said our fore fathers treated the Indians properly, I said for the most part they did not honor the treaties.....

Who was it that landed here in 1492 and claimed the land for their king, it was Spain, and you really dint want to talk about the Indians, considering what Spain did to the Indians when they came to the Americas, they raped, killed and tortured all they could get their hands on, destroying the Aztec, Inca and Maya civilizations as well as many other smaller civilizations......

You try to make it sound as if Spain was the only country guilty of these atrocities. Shame on you for trying to skew and distort history in an attempt to villainies the Spanish.

SVR, I'm not, if you read the thread you would see that post was in reply to MORE AND BEYOND OSSY post about Americas's treatment of the Indians, Spanish were here raping and pillaging the Indian population and land in their search for gold and silver for 250+ years before we were even a country as were the Portuguese. The Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire began in February 1519 and was acclaimed victorious on August 13, 1521 by Spain.....

Ive been reading the thread, no need to insult my intelligence.

The thread took a terrible dive downhill after this uneducated analogy and cheap-shot @ Spain:

Spain has no more of a claim to the gold than Germany does to the gold stolen by Nazis during WWII......

Just like all of the other Odyssey threads...civility is out the window, and history gets butchered/misrepresented in a vain attempt to advance an agenda.

SVR, I was NOT insulting your intelligence, I stated facts, history upholds what I posted, There is more than enough documentation of the atrocities committed by the Spanish against the inhabitants of the New World......There was over 250 years of atrocities against the inhabitants of the Americas by Spain before American ever rebelled against England, saying they weren't the only ones commiting the acts does not lessen or change the history of the Spanish conquest in the Americas.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Hey, I live in Maryland and if I go to Assateague island National Park with a metal detector, you will see me behind bars soon.

Yes because you would be violating written law! A non-ambiguous written law!
OM had a legal agreement to search and recover the artifacts in question.

Someone within Spain is interpreting the written law differently than those that wrote the agreement with OM. So in this world of sue for greed, sue for greed, sue for greed, this gets locked up in a court system.

Has the U.S ever made comment on the illegal boarding of an American vessel at sea?
What about the illegal detainment of American citizens and their property?

Are you an American?
Doesn’t that piss you off?

Oh I guess our Secretary of State wouldn’t want to undermine her friend’s lawsuit!

They were Boarded after they left, the 3 mile's of Gibraltar territorial zone ! Which means they were in Spanish water's.
And Like most Pirates that take goods that don't belong to them ( Especialy when they had been toll not to touch the Mercedes ) They were boarded. They planned it well and removed all evidence of the
ship. Lucky for them.
The US Doesn't Rule the World my friend !!! Spain Has it's own Laws !
Justifing to yourself that Spain sold the goods in the first place, so it's fine for you to keep is Hypocrtical !!!!
Ossy

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

I never said our fore fathers treated the Indians properly, I said for the most part they did not honor the treaties.....

Who was it that landed here in 1492 and claimed the land for their king, it was Spain, and you really dint want to talk about the Indians, considering what Spain did to the Indians when they came to the Americas, they raped, killed and tortured all they could get their hands on, destroying the Aztec, Inca and Maya civilizations as well as many other smaller civilizations......

You try to make it sound as if Spain was the only country guilty of these atrocities. Shame on you for trying to skew and distort history in an attempt to villainies the Spanish.

SVR, I'm not, if you read the thread you would see that post was in reply to MORE AND BEYOND OSSY post about Americas's treatment of the Indians, Spanish were here raping and pillaging the Indian population and land in their search for gold and silver for 250+ years before we were even a country as were the Portuguese. The Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire began in February 1519 and was acclaimed victorious on August 13, 1521 by Spain.....

Ive been reading the thread, no need to insult my intelligence.

The thread took a terrible dive downhill after this uneducated analogy and cheap-shot @ Spain:

Spain has no more of a claim to the gold than Germany does to the gold stolen by Nazis during WWII......

Just like all of the other Odyssey threads...civility is out the window, and history gets butchered/misrepresented in a vain attempt to advance an agenda.

SVR, I was NOT insulting your intelligence, I stated facts, history upholds what I posted, There is more than enough documentation of the atrocities committed by the Spanish against the inhabitants of the New World......There was over 250 years of atrocities against the inhabitants of the Americas by Spain before American ever rebelled against England, saying they weren't the only ones commiting the acts does not lessen or change the history of the Spanish conquest in the Americas.

We have a saying here in Oz " Its like the Pot calling the Kettle Black "
Ossy

 

[architecad]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Please, let's keep the order and respect.

 

[Saturna]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

The bottom line is that private interests find & recover these treasures.

Governments do nothing but create red tape, and empires for power tripping bureaucrats.



All the stuff ever found on the seabed would still be there if it was left up to governments.

 

[architecad]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

The bottom line is that private interests find & recover these treasures.

Governments do nothing but create red tape, and empires for power tripping bureaucrats.



All the stuff ever found on the seabed would still be there if it was left up to governments.

Read this statement:

"The big fish get eat the little fish". This true always has been present in the history of the human kind.

1. Spain conquered almost the whole American continent, from Florida and California up to Argentina, since 1492 to 1800's. They committed, genocide against the Maya, Aztecs, Incas everything for the gold. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories was legal.

2. United Stated conquered the Native American territories. They committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600 to 1890?. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories was legal. They founded the United Stated of America.

3. United State of America declared the war against Spain in 1898. The American troops took as Military booty to Philippine, Guam, Cuba and Puerto Rico. They never acted with democracy in front these countries. They took them and period. If some of those countries decided to keep them as territories of the United Stated(Guam and Puerto Rico) it's another story. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories is legal.

So, all treasure brought from South America to Spain during the period of the colonization and it was lost in the bottom of the sea, all of them, belong to Spain, Spain is the legitimate owner. Did they steel archaeological treasures? Yes, they did it and today, they keep steeling treasure, this time as Archaeologist and putting them in a foreigner Museum.

That it is.

 

[chappysgold]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

And another saying here in OZ,"you might be barking up the wrong tree aussie" .