Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

[Salvor6]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Ossy let me correct you on a couple things buddy. The U.S. DOES rule the world. We can do what we want. Period. The coins are in Florida now and they will never leave. Get used to it. Why bother arguing all this? Lets just wait for the court decision.

 

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[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

The bottom line is that private interests find & recover these treasures.

Governments do nothing but create red tape, and empires for power tripping bureaucrats.



All the stuff ever found on the seabed would still be there if it was left up to governments.

Read this statement:

"The big fish get eat the little fish". This true always has been present in the history of the human kind.

1. Spain conquered almost the whole American continent, from Florida and California up to Argentina, since 1492 to 1800's. They committed, genocide against the Maya, Aztecs, Incas everything for the gold. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories was legal.

2. United Stated conquered the Native American territories. They committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600 to 1890?. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories was legal. They founded the United Stated of America.

3. United State of America declared the war against Spain in 1898. The American troops took as Military booty to Philippine, Guam, Cuba and Puerto Rico. They never acted with democracy in front these countries. They took them and period. If some of those countries decided to keep them as territories of the United Stated(Guam and Puerto Rico) it's another story. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories is legal.

So, all treasure brought from South America to Spain during the period of the colonization and it was lost in the bottom of the sea, all of them, belong to Spain, Spain is the legitimate owner. Did they steel archaeological treasures? Yes, they did it and today, they keep steeling treasure, this time as Archaeologist and putting them in a foreigner Museum.

That it is.

So you're saying the United States "" committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600 to 1890”

Well that explains why you have a skewed view of history..

Could you point me to some reading material of the United States of America history of the 1600’s?

Conquering a country doesn’t make crimes against humanity legal.

 

[architecad]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Ossy let me correct you on a couple things buddy. The U.S. DOES rule the world. We can do what we want. Period. The coins are in Florida now and they will never leave. Get used to it. Why bother arguing all this? Lets just wait for the court decision.

You know what? I don't want to answer that "non-sense and arrogance respond" because I don't want to finish this topic, with insults like many time happen, then, the moderator eliminate this topic and this story finish like always. I tell you what. (it's not racism) Treasure hunter from Florida has to change your position of how you see yourself in front other countries. The same Florida state government and other organization are against to you, because what you did and keep doing.

In Puerto Rico, in 1985, Mel Fisher tried to do, like you said "We can do what we want" and he was stopped by the authorities because he tried to remove a Spanish Galleon without permission. In Colombia, Mexico and another countries, the same story, they has been stopped, and I know more stories about the arrogance of some Treasure hunter pretending to be "The God of this World" and they finish like crap of this world. Like I said, I'm not racist but I noticed that many of those arrogance treasure hunter, they from Florida State.

He buddy, be humble!! don't take personal or in a connotation of racism but I like to keep this topic that I started already with respect and order.

Arch

 

[architecad]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

The bottom line is that private interests find & recover these treasures.

Governments do nothing but create red tape, and empires for power tripping bureaucrats.



All the stuff ever found on the seabed would still be there if it was left up to governments.

Read this statement:

"The big fish get eat the little fish". This true always has been present in the history of the human kind.

1. Spain conquered almost the whole American continent, from Florida and California up to Argentina, since 1492 to 1800's. They committed, genocide against the Maya, Aztecs, Incas everything for the gold. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories was legal.

2. United Stated conquered the Native American territories. They committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600 to 1890?. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories was legal. They founded the United Stated of America.

3. United State of America declared the war against Spain in 1898. The American troops took as Military booty to Philippine, Guam, Cuba and Puerto Rico. They never acted with democracy in front these countries. They took them and period. If some of those countries decided to keep them as territories of the United Stated(Guam and Puerto Rico) it's another story. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories is legal.

So, all treasure brought from South America to Spain during the period of the colonization and it was lost in the bottom of the sea, all of them, belong to Spain, Spain is the legitimate owner. Did they steel archaeological treasures? Yes, they did it and today, they keep steeling treasure, this time as Archaeologist and putting them in a foreigner Museum.

That it is.

So you're saying the United States "" committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600 to 1890”

Well that explains why you have a skewed view of history..

Could you point me to some reading material of the United States of America history of the 1600’s?

Conquering a country doesn’t make crimes against humanity legal.

You said "Conquering a country doesn’t make crimes against humanity legal."

Are you asking me? or are you telling me something? I don't going to point out some reading material of the 1600 because this topic is about the return of the 500M coins to Spain from Odyssey but if you're not happy with my respond, go and ask to your mom or dad why US celebrate the Thanksgiving day every year and the answer that they give you will be a reading material of the United States of America history of the 1600’s.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

You said "Conquering a country doesn’t make crimes against humanity legal."

Are you asking me? or are you telling me something? I don't going to point out some reading material of the 1600 because this topic is about the return of the 500M coins to Spain from Odyssey but if you're not happy with my respond, go and ask to your mom or dad why US celebrate the Thanksgiving day every year and the answer that they give you will be a reading material of the United States of America history of the 1600’s.

I'm making a statement not asking you a question.

If I went and asked my mom and dad about Thanksgiving they would tell me among other things that it was ENGLISH CITIZENS celebrating on the continent of North America 155 years before the United States of America existed.

So how was the United States of America committing “genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600” since it did not exist yet?

Or are you trying to say that since it was committed on the same continent, then the United States is guilty of the crimes committed by our predecessors the Spanish, English, French and whoever else set foot upon North American soil prior to 1776?

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Ossy let me correct you on a couple things buddy. The U.S. DOES rule the world. We can do what we want. Period. The coins are in Florida now and they will never leave. Get used to it. Why bother arguing all this? Lets just wait for the court decision.

I agree lets wait for the courts decision, and then we can draw swords again !
Ossy

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Morning swr, you mean no-one wants 'my' decision sniff, story of my life.

Still I am curious, just what did the world do or care basically about sunken wrecks prior to Fisher actually finding a sunken Ship with GOLD & SILVER? Most merely considered him crazy, however, with the latter two possibilities, $$ and possibly creating an Archaeological niche for work, interest perked up. so with $$ and a job in their eyes, things moved quickly, possibly to the loss of both in the near future.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[architecad]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

You said "Conquering a country doesn’t make crimes against humanity legal."

Are you asking me? or are you telling me something? I don't going to point out some reading material of the 1600 because this topic is about the return of the 500M coins to Spain from Odyssey but if you're not happy with my respond, go and ask to your mom or dad why US celebrate the Thanksgiving day every year and the answer that they give you will be a reading material of the United States of America history of the 1600’s.

I'm making a statement not asking you a question.

If I went and asked my mom and dad about Thanksgiving they would tell me among other things that it was ENGLISH CITIZENS celebrating on the continent of North America 155 years before the United States of America existed.

So how was the United States of America committing “genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600” since it did not exist yet?

Or are you trying to say that since it was committed on the same continent, then the United States is guilty of the crimes committed by our predecessors the Spanish, English, French and whoever else set foot upon North American soil prior to 1776?

When I said "since 1600", of course, United State has not been founded as nation during that period but the future Anglo who founded the country and committed many atrocities against the native American already existed. If you read the American story, you will notice the wars, kills and atrocities were "cooking" before the American independence.The pursue of the expansion toward the west provoked many kills, wars, genocides in this territories. During the time when Christopher Columbus arrive to the Hispaniola and Puerto Rico, they didn't kill any Tainos o native of those island but years later, the next people that arrive from Spain begun to abuse, rap and kill the native.

Who is the guilty one? of course, the European, including the Anglo, French and Spaniards. If I said between 1600 to 1800 era, I'm generalizing at all history, not specified the exact time where genocides were committed during the American colony period and the conquest of the west against many ethnic groups. The Spaniard are not innocent of many exploitation, kills and genocide against the native American; Inca, Aztec and Maya, like the Anglo too, with theirs kills and other atrocities against the human kind. The Spaniard for the gold and the Anglos for the lands, but both groups are not innocent according with the history.

In conclusion, I'm not prejudicing against United State as the "guilty one" as you in your short essay shows as "prejudice affirmation" but I state the European, in general, committed atrocities against ethnic groups and native American in this continent during 1600 to 1800, ones for the gold and silver, others for lands.

For more information go to any State University web site and ask question to any History teacher about the true of the American History and its true.


Please keep cool in this topic!!

Arch

P. D. I didn't touch the subject about the atrocities committed during the slavery time against the slaves and African. This is another big story to tell.

 

[architecad]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Please, everybody keep cool in this hot topic.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

You said "Conquering a country doesn’t make crimes against humanity legal."

Are you asking me? or are you telling me something? I don't going to point out some reading material of the 1600 because this topic is about the return of the 500M coins to Spain from Odyssey but if you're not happy with my respond, go and ask to your mom or dad why US celebrate the Thanksgiving day every year and the answer that they give you will be a reading material of the United States of America history of the 1600’s.

I'm making a statement not asking you a question.

If I went and asked my mom and dad about Thanksgiving they would tell me among other things that it was ENGLISH CITIZENS celebrating on the continent of North America 155 years before the United States of America existed.

So how was the United States of America committing “genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600” since it did not exist yet?

Or are you trying to say that since it was committed on the same continent, then the United States is guilty of the crimes committed by our predecessors the Spanish, English, French and whoever else set foot upon North American soil prior to 1776?

When I said "since 1600", of course, United State has not been founded as nation during that period but the future Anglo who founded the country and committed many atrocities against the native American already existed. If you read the American story, you will notice the wars, kills and atrocities were "cooking" before the American independence.The pursue of the expansion toward the west provoked many kills, wars, genocides in this territories. During the time when Christopher Columbus arrive to the Hispaniola and Puerto Rico, they didn't kill any Tainos o native of those island but years later, the next people that arrive from Spain begun to abuse, rap and kill the native.

Who is the guilty one? of course, the European, including the Anglo, French and Spaniards. If I said between 1600 to 1800 era, I'm generalizing at all history, not specified the exact time where genocides were committed during the American colony period and the conquest of the west against many ethnic groups. The Spaniard are not innocent of many exploitation, kills and genocide against the native American; Inca, Aztec and Maya, like the Anglo too, with theirs kills and other atrocities against the human kind. The Spaniard for the gold and the Anglos for the lands, but both groups are not innocent according with the history.

In conclusion, I'm not prejudicing against United State as the "guilty one" as you in your short essay shows as "prejudice affirmation" but I state the European, in general, committed atrocities against ethnic groups and native American in this continent during 1600 to 1800, ones for the gold and silver, others for lands.

For more information go to any State University web site and ask question to any History teacher about the true of the American History and its true.


Please keep cool in this topic!!

Arch

P. D. I didn't touch the subject about the atrocities committed during the slavery time against the slaves and African. This is another big story to tell.

Well Said, architecad

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

architecad, no as a matter of fact you wrote very specifically

"2. United Stated conquered the Native American territories. They committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600 to 1890?. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories was legal. They founded the United Stated of America."

I'll even forgo the misspelling “United Stated” and assume that you specifically meant the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. They committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600 to 1890?

So why of course would anyone that understands English think that you actually didn’t mean the United States of America committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600?

Now it’s ok if you want to retract that statement and now reference a more generalization of the people who actually committed those atrocious but have the common decency to admit you were wrong originally and are now just making big waves to cover yourself.

Since you seem so keen on “telling me where to learn history” I’ll give you once again a quick history lesson that you can reference in the future.

The United States of America didn’t exist prior to 1776 therefore they could not have participated in any events of history during the 1600’s.

It’s really that simple.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

P. D. I didn't touch the subject about the atrocities committed during the slavery time against the slaves and African. This is another big story to tell.

And why would you other than to stir the pot, which I believe was the intention of you starting this thread.

The WORLD issue of Negro slaves has nothing to do with OM and Spain’s fight over this treasure. Neither does the issues of “some group of people in North America” committing atrocities.

You Ossy and SWR seem to think that for some reason if you can deflect from the actual parties involved that it makes a boogeyman out of “Americans” and that Spain is innocent in their actions of this case and history.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

architecad, no as a matter of fact you wrote very specifically

"2. United Stated conquered the Native American territories. They committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600 to 1890?. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories was legal. They founded the United Stated of America."

I'll even forgo the misspelling “United Stated” and assume that you specifically meant the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. They committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600 to 1890?

So why of course would anyone that understands English think that you actually didn’t mean the United States of America committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600?

Now it’s ok if you want to retract that statement and now reference a more generalization of the people who actually committed those atrocious but have the common decency to admit you were wrong originally and are now just making big waves to cover yourself.

Since you seem so keen on “telling me where to learn history” I’ll give you once again a quick history lesson that you can reference in the future.

The United States of America didn’t exist prior to 1776 therefore they could not have participated in any events of history during the 1600’s.

It’s really that simple.

Just because you change your flag and become a new Nation, Doesn't mean your ancestors didn't do wrong.
I'm impressed with your Patriotism.
Ossy

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Ladies and gentlemen: can any one show me a square inch of earth that wars etc haven't been fought over time and again, or a single race of people that haven't committed atrocities on others, this specifically includes 'all' of the earliest North and South American indigenous tribes.

Unfortunately it is part of human nature, and is continuing right now through out the world.

To single out any particular family, tribe, or nation, past or present, is extremely foolish.

sheesh I need a any one care to join me?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Ladies and gentlemen: can any one show me a square inch of earth that wars etc haven't been fought over time and again, or a single race of people that haven't committed atrocities on others, this specifically includes 'all' of the earliest North and South American indigenous tribes.

Unfortunately it is part of human nature, and is continuing right now through out the world.

To single out any particular family, tribe, or nation, past or present, is extremely foolish.

sheesh I need a any one care to join me?

Don Jose de La Mancha

As only a wise Man can say. Bravo Don Jose.
Should take note Au_Dreamers, Here is man who put his life up for your Country

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Just because you change your flag and become a new Nation, Doesn't mean your ancestors didn't do wrong.
I'm impressed with your Patriotism.
Ossy

Well I would say that we didn't "change" our flag we created a new one to go along with the new nation and new ideals. So you know my family genealogy? You know what my ancestors did?

If you want to be that general then we are all guilty for the atrocities of man from the beginning of time.

Are you a “treasure hunter”, armchair adventurer?
Why do you come to these forums?
Do you realize the detrimental affect this (Spain winning) will have on “treasure hunters” world wide?

It’s going to be worse than the Abandoned Shipwreck Act.

Written laws are being obscured to fulfill the greater good of a Power Entity.
For someone who seems to dislike BIG corporate greed I do not understand why you side with BIG government greed other than national pride.

If the ruling goes in favor of Spain I will be at a loss for my “vocation” and those like me.
I will be at a loss for the disappointment of my Country for their clear obfuscation of written law to fulfill an agenda and not to uphold the letter of the law and justice.

 

[architecad]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

architecad, no as a matter of fact you wrote very specifically

"2. United Stated conquered the Native American territories. They committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600 to 1890?. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories was legal. They founded the United Stated of America."

I'll even forgo the misspelling “United Stated” and assume that you specifically meant the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. They committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600 to 1890?

So why of course would anyone that understands English think that you actually didn’t mean the United States of America committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600?

Now it’s ok if you want to retract that statement and now reference a more generalization of the people who actually committed those atrocious but have the common decency to admit you were wrong originally and are now just making big waves to cover yourself.

Since you seem so keen on “telling me where to learn history” I’ll give you once again a quick history lesson that you can reference in the future.

The United States of America didn’t exist prior to 1776 therefore they could not have participated in any events of history during the 1600’s.

It’s really that simple.

Ok. Au. What is the issue with you? Apparently you're taking this issue literally. I will resume what I meant to see if you understand.

The Anglo or the people that came from Europe, whose lived before United State was founded, whose founded United State of America, and all generations after that, during the period of 1600 and 1800, they pursued his ambition to get the west, they fought against the native American ethnic group in order to own the land of all natives. In that time, they committed atrocities, killing, wars and genocide. I didn't say the Government of the United State of America, as institution, between 1600 to 1800 committed bla, bla, bla,!!!

You know what I'm talking about but you're of those guys that like to "torture" the words of somebody when they see is losing an argument. Also, you're like those blind guy that argue and argue in front the fact, in front the history. If you lost, you lost. period. You remember me a guy that he never accept that David Crockett (?) was killed during the battle of the Alamo. I saw that argument in Discovery channel during a documentary about the fact found over that battle. The documentary shown teachers and researcher about history with evidence that battle where supposedly the explorer- David C. was caught as prisoner and later shot to die. This guy argued how is possible that an American idol, a hero has been executed. Your words remind me that guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett

Arch

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

As only a wise Man can say. Bravo Don Jose.
Should take note Au_Dreamers, Here is man who put his life up for your Country

What exactly should I take note of?

I assume you assume I’m American because of my stance on this issue.

Does him serving in the U.S. military give his opinion more weight than mine?

You assume many things Ossy.


Since I also have served in my country’s military does that allow me to not have to take note?

Again the world’s history nor the USA’s history is not of this subject.

What does Bosnia have to do with OM and Spain?
What does Peru have to do with OM and Spain?

When you answer that maybe we can keep on track and stop deflecting from the subject at hand.

 

[architecad]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Ossy

I have a questing for you. Please respond with a yes or no

Do you think that I'm trying to accuse to the United State of America, as institution, as established government, that they committed atrocities against other group during 1600 to 1800?. Do you think that is my meanings?

 

[architecad]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

As only a wise Man can say. Bravo Don Jose.
Should take note Au_Dreamers, Here is man who put his life up for your Country

What exactly should I take note of?

I assume you assume I’m American because of my stance on this issue.

Does him serving in the U.S. military give his opinion more weight than mine?

You assume many things Ossy.


Since I also have served in my country’s military does that allow me to not have to take note?

Again the world’s history nor the USA’s history is not of this subject.

What does Bosnia have to do with OM and Spain?
What does Peru have to do with OM and Spain?

When you answer that maybe we can keep on track and stop deflecting from the subject at hand.

AU

I have 4 brothers that they served in the United State Armed forces and I never use that fact to "feed" my patriotism.

Arch