FIND THE STARTER DRILL HOLE ON THE STONE MAPS?

[Blindbowman]

your right , it should have been done long ago .. and i have not seen any report on the glue ..

but that was my concern about DAI doing a poor job of researching the stones . anyone can look at them and give a opioion , what about the translation its as bad as the glaue not being define ,,...

good subject bill stay with a answer maybe out there ...

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A Handbook of Civil War Bullets and Cartridges - Grab it through Amazon!

[wrmickel]

Here is what the real trail map looks like you find this you got the real one

Babymick1

 

[Oroblanco]

your right , it should have been done long ago .. and i have not seen any report on the glue ..

but that was my concern about DAI doing a poor job of researching the stones . anyone can look at them and give a opioion , what about the translation its as bad as the glaue not being define ,,...

good subject bill stay with a answer maybe out there ...

Hola amigos,

BB - DAI doing a poor job of researching the stones? Did you read their analysis and conclusions? Not just the email interchange Beth had with them, what was published. It has been posted before.

Somehiker - I am not sure that a color difference between the stones is a major red flag. The earliest photo of the stones is black and white, so we don't know if there was much color difference to start with; plus stones can bleach lighter in color due to simple sunlight, or darken due to high humidity etc. It is notable however.

Just for the record, folks ought to look at some of the other stone carvings done by Tumlinson while considering this hunt for drill start dimples. I do not have permission to borrow those photos, they are on the LDM forum but here are links you can look at:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj315/LDM_2008/Tumlinson/42-StoneTablet-Chest-Cropped.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj315/LDM_2008/Tumlinson/44-StoneTablet-Ship.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj315/LDM_2008/Tumlinson/16-BicycleCarOverview.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj315/LDM_2008/Tumlinson/08-BicycleCar.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj315/LDM_2008/Tumlinson/18-TurtleandAnotherHead.jpg

All are in the thread, borrowed from http://www.thelostdutchmangoldmine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1435&start=0
Now, do you see any drill start dimples in these photos? I can't, which does not mean they are not present.

It is hard to judge from photographs when you need to be looking very up close and personal, with very low angle light to enhance shadows etc. I fail to see any reason why the folks at DAI would have LIED about seeing drill dimples if there really were not any there.

Oroblanco

 

[somehiker]

Desert Archaeology Inc.'s examination report on the Stone Maps-----http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gcundiff/LostDutchman/peralta/Arizona%20Highways.pdf

Roy:
We do know that many copies of the maps have been made since the originals were found or fabricated by the first person who laid hands on the raw stone.
I am only giving my opinion that,based on the photo that accompanied the article above,where Lesley Presmyk (not anyone from DAI) is shown examining the stone with a magnifier,that the (trail) stones supplied for examination were not the originals seen in the "Bumper" photo.If,during the time between when the bumper photo was taken,and the "stones" were surrendered to the Flagg Foundation/AMM,a "bait and switch" fraud occurred,who would know?
The people from DAI would have not known anything other than what they could see on the stones that they were asked to give their opinion about.
They wouldn't have had to lie.

Regards:Wayne

 

[Blindbowman]

yes i have Roy , but at this point i have no choice , the code has unlocked the 3 richest mines in the world . the MA the PA and the Hoya

and i have seen one with my only two eyes and i know how to locate the other two ... and evry detail says they are there .. very well hidden but real

look at what is coded on the silver beel the 3 richest mines , but look closer the wording is TAYOPA in higher case letters . this is the sites i found ..look at how the wording is set out . Tayopa ,Guaynopa,Guaynopita, sonora , then it reads the 3 richest mines in the world ..why list those 4 of there are only 3 mines .. if it ment minerales why is the 4 at all ...?Tayopa was going to be like Sonora
what it is doing is listing the areas of mining then it list what is there ,. but it started with the heading TAYOPA for a reason its tell you where the bell came from . just like it did on the Tayopa letter and it dose on RT's Mapa

no Roy at this point you can have your opioions i would rather prove i have found the 3 richest mines in the world .. i am 3 for 3 .. i know where they are ...i am going to hike in on the 21st i will be leaveing at 9:00 bethere or stay in camp thats up to you but you want to be at joe's before 8:30 i will be translating the stones part way before i go in .. if you beleive your right .. you most likely will be the only one in camp that day ..

look close Roy that code is threw out 3 difrent sorces ...and the code is consistent in all 3 .. thats 3 for 3 Roy ...not ating the ruth Gonzales map is the same code .. that is just over kill ...

i am not wrong Roy sorry everyone else is ...and yes i can prove it ... more then will too ..

the second masscre site gave it away ...

i dont real care at this point if DAI said alens made the stones , they were wrong and i can prove it ...

 

[Blindbowman]

LOL Roy tumlinson work is a joke next to the stones . he is trying to copy the skill and he never even gets close , for one he dose not have to skill to start with second the mathimatics are way beyond tumlinson ablities , that is out right see able in his work .. the qualities and skill level is just not there Roy and it dose not matter is you get Tumlinsons tools and have pictures of him cuting stone he did not make the stones ...

in fact he would have had to make the ruth gonzales map the stones the tayopa letters RT's map and the waltz will ... sorry he did not make any of them ...and yes i will prove out right ...

waltz not only seen the stones he made changes to them . and barried them and yes i can prove that and will ...

do you want to see what it took to solve these legends .. come to the Rendenous on 21st .. be there before 8:30 i am hikeing in at 9:00 with anyone that wants to go in and see the discoveries for them selfs .. watch the man that found the LDM . get the first sample from the mine .. i think you all under judged what waltz ment when he said that mine is hard to find .. its not hard to find its damn near imposable to find ...over $ 65,000. and more the 30 years to find them

my father told me if someone had the skills and training to solve the clues and navigation skills they could find this mine .. he was correct ... out right fact !

i walked past this mine with in 8ft away 3 times and did not see any sign what so ever it was even there .. the one time i got with in 6 ft i found it and still did not know what it was till months latter ...

no i am not wrong Roy .. sorry you can have your opioion , i would rather have the mines ...

the goverment and state will take them and i walk away knowing my skills & profiling system are the best in the world ....thats good enough for me ...

 

[Springfield]

.. .If,during the time between when the bumper photo was taken,and the "stones" were surrendered to the Flagg Foundation/AMM,a "bait and switch" fraud occurred,who would know? ....

This seems to be a growing and troubling sentiment.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Chihuahua, Chihuahua, BB, Chihuahua, NOT Sonora..

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[BILL96]

If the stones were copied as some believe, what is the material used to make the copy? i do not believe that you can use liquid sandstone to make a copy. Any material that you use to make a copy is easily distinguishable from sandstone. If copies were made of plaster or a half dozen other rock hard type of plasters and simply colored to look like sandstone a close examination would easily reveal the difference. Someone needs to explain to me how you can make a sandstone copy.

Bill

 

[gollum]

Bill,

That's actually very easy. One way would be to lay a piece of tracing paper over each stone and lightly trace every line and symbol. You can exactly trace line width and imperfections. You then take that piece of paper and lay it over another stone of the same size. Trace the design onto the new stone, and use some engraving tool to work the designs into exact duplicates of the original.

Mike

 

[BILL96]

Mike,
I guess when I was thinking "copy" I imagined making a mold of the original an then using a mold to make a copy from the mold.

Thanks,
Bill

 

[cactusjumper]

Is it the general consensus here, that those offering their opinions on this forum have done as precise an examination as the people at DA?

Joe Ribaudo

 

[BILL96]

One more thought on the stones being copies. Does anyone think the broken and repaired heart stone is also a copy?

Bill

 

[Blindbowman]

Chihuahua, Chihuahua, BB, Chihuahua, NOT Sonora..

Don Jose de La Mancha

wrong RT the bell says Sonora on it ..it also spells TAYOPA in high case letter just like i said it would ..

 

[EE THr]

Bill---

Bernice and Jack McGee described the color of the Heart Stone as "yellowish," in their article (link to article on Garry and Carol Cundiff's Website is at bottom of linked post).

Also their drawing of the Heart Stone varies significantly from the actual Stone in the museum.

And the broken lobe doesn't look good for it, either.

 

[Cubfan64]

Here is what the real trail map looks like you find this you got the real one

Babymick1

I'll bite...

What makes you believe this is what the "real" trail map looks like? There must be some evidence to back up your belief?

 

[wrmickel]

Here is what the real trail map looks like you find this you got the real one

Babymick1

I'll bite...

What makes you believe this is what the "real" trail map looks like? There must be some evidence to back up your belief?

There is I,m looking at it giving to me by grampa mitch

Babymick1

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

To any who know,

Does anyone know how our "friend" who made a copy of the stones awhile back (no names here, just for the folks who know who I am talking about) - how he "manufactured" them? I'm not talking the lines, etc., but, how he did the actual stones?

Did he cast them?

Beth

 

[Oroblanco]

Is it the general consensus here, that those offering their opinions on this forum have done as precise an examination as the people at DA?

Joe Ribaudo

If by consensus you mean unanimous, then no.
Roy

 

[EE THr]

See the thing being held close to the eye? It is called a Jewelers' loupe; it is a magnifier. These start dimples would very probably be very small, less than a quarter inch certainly, unless the drill were held in place for a long time. I doubt you are going to see diddly-squat from any kind of photographs unless they are done at something like 10X and very close, as in inches away.
Oroblanco

I'm not so sure about all that. The resolution on hi-res images can pick up the grains on the sandstone, which are much smaller than 1/4 inch.

And if a magnifier blows up the grain, it's probably just going to look like a pile of boulders. So, unless there is a dimple which is distinct enough to be seen by a blowup of a hi-res digital image, would anything less be identifiable as a "drill dimple"? I gotta say I'm about 50-50 on that one.

Another problem I have with the drill or Dremel theory, is that lots of the line ends are tapered. To accomplish that, a person would need to go to a smaller diameter Dremel tip, and somehow make that a gradual line width and depth change. You can make a line or mark wider than the tip you are using, but not narrower! And to make a line or mark which is wider than the tip you are using, defeats the whole theory, because it puts you right back into the variances caused by using any other "by hand" method.

Plus, there are also a lot of "over cuts," where the carved line goes past the adjoining or intersecting line. And those over cuts are all of the tapered ending type. It would be way easier to have made the Stones, by just using a non-powered rock carving tool, than it would be by using a Dremel!

I realize that I might be overlooking something regarding what I commented on in this post, and if I am, I would appreciate anyone letting me know what it is.

My opinion is that using a loupe isn't going to give any advantage over blown up hi-res photos, any more than looking at two piles of boulders and trying to see which pile might have a certain type of "dimple" in it. In other words, I think the surface is too course to get down to that fine of detail. And it would need to be mighty fine detail, if you couldn't see it up close with the naked eye, or by blowing up a hi-res digital image.

And the idea of having evidence of power tool sanding gets kind of screwy, too. I think anything smaller than could be seen without a loupe or magnifying glass, would be as small as the grain of the sandstone itself, and thus unobservable. I don't remember if they said "power sander" or just "hand sanded," but either way, I don't think it would be distinguishable with the graininess of the Stones. It may be possible, but I'm very skeptical of that, at this point.