Gunning Granny Goes Out In A Blaze Of Glory In Gun Fight With Three Thugs

[NHBandit]

Pay attention - the comment wasn't directed at being armed - it was resisting during an armed robbery.

And, though i'm not law enforcement, my son is. He's a Sheriff's Deputy in Florida. Right now he's a helicopter pilot in his department's aviation unit. But among other things, he is also assigned to his department's version of a SWAT team, though they no longer call it that. He is also a Marksman who gets to qualify with all sorts of really cool weapons.

But you are right, i shouldn't speak for all law enforcement so I'll only say what the Florida Police Academy and his department say to do in an armed robbery: If you are off duty don't intervene. Intervention usually leads to escalation. Escalation to injury or death to innocent victims and bystanders.


My understanding is that officers are not barred from intervening but better have a damn good reason for doing so. Even in situations with a positive outcome, the officers are subjected to intense scrutiny during the investigation. And if it goes wrong? The professional price is usually officer's least concern.

If this is a serious comment then I am shocked and disgusted. Are you honestly telling us that the policy of the Fla police is that if they're not "on the clock" they are to look the other way when they see a violent crime being committed ? You must be so proud... WOW.... I'm glad I don't live in Fla. As Treasure Hunter said... just one more reason for us to keep our weapons close at hand. NF maybe you should take a break from posting for awhile.. you're comments are helping our side, not yours..

 

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[L.C. BAKER]

What does this thread have to do with slaves?

My apologies: I got sidetracked by a constitutional comment, and I got my feathers ruffled. Please continue the discussion.

L.C.

 

[Native Floridian]

Giving up is a personal decision...nothing more. So is standing your ground. I see nothing wrong with giving in, though, in my mind, standing your ground is the correct thing to do for a couple of reasons. 1. If you live, you will have deterred a crime, and also maybe taught a lesson to the would-be criminal. 2. You have upheld your responsibility to society. If you give in, you encourage that criminal to do it again, to some other poor soul. In effect, you have maybe saved yourself, at the expense of others. Same thing goes with gun ownership. My guns protect me, and my friends and family. But, they also may protect people I've never met. On the other hand, the person who refuses to own guns, can protect no one...not even themselves...in tough times, they're a hindrance to survival.....just one more deadweight that responsible people have to worry about.
Jim[/QUOTE

Jim

How about this: You come out to your car in a parking lot. it's dark. You know the place well. It's safe, you've been coming here for years. it's good section of town. No worries. But as you stop to open your car door a dark figure appears directly behind you. he sticks a gun in your back. he's got the drop on you. You get a huge adrenaline shot that sends a hot wave into your head. That's the feeling of fear. And is quite normal. Now your heart is ready to jump out of your chest it is beating so hard, your knees are weak, again the adrenaline. fight or flight, your body's normal reaction to fear is fully engaged. That's hard wired into each of us. This is how it is. Heart racing, knees ready to buckle, adrenaline induced heat frying your head. And, what you are saying is in that condition, you believe it's time to teach that punk a lesson? And if you could, how would you? His finger is on the trigger and yours is where?

These situations aren't Dirty Harry movies. Situations where we clearly, calmly turn the tables. These are desperate situations. Situations that where life and death is decided in milliseconds.

Jim, I respect your opinion on this board. I and i respect that you would want to take the highest road. My post here is only my opinion that I just don't think that's the way it goes down.

 

[Diggin-N-Dumps]

Giving up is a personal decision...nothing more. So is standing your ground. I see nothing wrong with giving in, though, in my mind, standing your ground is the correct thing to do for a couple of reasons. 1. If you live, you will have deterred a crime, and also maybe taught a lesson to the would-be criminal. 2. You have upheld your responsibility to society. If you give in, you encourage that criminal to do it again, to some other poor soul. In effect, you have maybe saved yourself, at the expense of others. Same thing goes with gun ownership. My guns protect me, and my friends and family. But, they also may protect people I've never met. On the other hand, the person who refuses to own guns, can protect no one...not even themselves...in tough times, they're a hindrance to survival.....just one more deadweight that responsible people have to worry about.
Jim[/QUOTE

Jim

How about this: You come out to your car in a parking lot. it's dark. You know the place well. It's safe, you've been coming here for years. it's good section of town. No worries. But as you stop to open your car door a dark figure appears directly behind you. he sticks a gun in your back. he's got the drop on you. You get a huge adrenaline shot that sends a hot wave into your head. That's the feeling of fear. And is quite normal. Now your heart is ready to jump out of your chest it is beating so hard, your knees are weak, again the adrenaline. fight or flight, your body's normal reaction to fear is fully engaged. That's hard wired into each of us. This is how it is. Heart racing, knees ready to buckle, adrenaline induced heat frying your head. And, what you are saying is in that condition, you believe it's time to teach that punk a lesson? And if you could, how would you? His finger is on the trigger and yours is where?

These situations aren't Dirty Harry movies. Situations where we clearly, calmly turn the tables. These are desperate situations. Situations that where life and death is decided in milliseconds.

Jim, I respect your opinion on this board. I and i respect that you would want to take the highest road. My post here is only my opinion that I just don't think that's the way it goes down.

That is a COMPLETE different scenrio then what really happened.

I can answer that question.

IF i were approched from behind, had a gun pointed in my back and was told to give up the goods.....Well ..YEA...I would probally hand over what I had...And this woman might have done that as well.

I can tell you thou..the second i had the chance or opportunity, I wouldnt HESISTATE to remove this person from this earth.

Im sorry, but if you put my FAMILY or MYSELF in Grave Danger....then you do not deserve to live....Im far from being the Dirty Harry type at all.

 

[Native Floridian]

If this is a serious comment then I am shocked and disgusted. Are you honestly telling us that the policy of the Fla police is that if they're not "on the clock" they are to look the other way when they see a violent crime being committed ? You must be so proud... WOW....

Don't twist my words. No one is looking the other way. It's about being smart, not macho. let the situation play itself out then act. Only act during the event if you can get the absolute drop on the perp or if it starts to go bad.
And as a point of clarification - they have a duty to act. And further clarification - if the perp recognizes them as law enforcement absolutely do everything to save your life.

And i said armed robbery not violent crime. For those who care, there is a big difference.

Also let's define intervention as not acting to escalate the situation. Once the immediate danger to the victims and immediate bystanders has passed it's game on!

Luckily my son has never been in that situation. But its' one of his main worries when going out late at night.

And yes i am proud of him. More so for being a stand up guy, never giving up on his goals, and for following in his dad's footsteps and becoming a helicopter pilot.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

NHBandit:

#1. My post regarding Gen. Washington was in response to the comment made here that living to fight another day may not be the best idea. Personally, I think it is - living beats dieing.

#2. My comment about America being safer today than it was in 1789 was in response to the post that stated we are worse off today.

#3. I'm sure you read my post that simply because our Constitution was written a long time ago (by some measures) doesn't mean it is out of date.

I numbered the above paragraphs. Do you disagree with one or more of them? Part of your confusion comes from trying too hard to read into my posts. They are simple and direct.

You overlay your own thoughts and beliefs, what you think "they" or "you guys" really think, you speculate about the true motives of others, you attempt to present the deepest thoughts of other posters here at TN. Such moves aren't going to help you understand what others are saying.

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

 

[Native Floridian]

I have talked to at least 15- 20 LEO in Florida this last year and asked their opinions on law abiding citizens being armed.

All basically said same thing, they perfer citizens are armed and the majority perfer open carry over conceal carry as it deters crime even more...

We will NOT go quietly into the night!

is the subject the right to be armed or about resisting an armed robber? I ask ,because all my posts are directed at resisting an armed robber.

AS for being armed and carrying - moot point here in NJ. But in Florida different story.

Police officers are trained to assume everyone is armed and concealing.

 

[njal]

Pay attention - the comment wasn't directed at being armed - it was resisting during an armed robbery.

And, though i'm not law enforcement, my son is. He's a Sheriff's Deputy in Florida. Right now he's a helicopter pilot in his department's aviation unit. But among other things, he is also assigned to his department's version of a SWAT team, though they no longer call it that. He is also a Marksman who gets to qualify with all sorts of really cool weapons.

But you are right, i shouldn't speak for all law enforcement so I'll only say what the Florida Police Academy and his department say to do in an armed robbery: If you are off duty don't intervene. Intervention usually leads to escalation. Escalation to injury or death to innocent victims and bystanders.


My understanding is that officers are not barred from intervening but better have a damn good reason for doing so. Even in situations with a positive outcome, the officers are subjected to intense scrutiny during the investigation. And if it goes wrong? The professional price is usually officer's least concern.

Well Here here! you do sound like a proud dad!

I'm trying to be a good Christian man in my advancing years so
I deleted the rest of my response to you.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Treasure Hunter:

In 1789 we were a tiny nation huddled on the narrow shore of a hostile continent. We had recently defeated the most powerful nation on earth. A national that would invade us less than 25 years later and burn the White House. We are actively fighting those who came to America first - our longest war (not, as is so often written, Afghanistan).

Today the United States is the most powerful military power on earth. We enjoy domestic tranquility - for the most part.

We are far safer today than the folks who founded this wonderful country.

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

I disagree..... look at the violent crime rate now, our very freedoms and rights are under attack from our own government not to mention the growing nuclear danger we face...

We will NOT go quietly into the night!

 

[njal]

Don't twist my words. No one is looking the other way. It's about being smart, not macho. let the situation play itself out then act. Only act during the event if you can get the absolute drop on the perp or if it starts to go bad.
And as a point of clarification - they have a duty to act. And further clarification - if the perp recognizes them as law enforcement absolutely do everything to save your life.

And i said armed robbery not violent crime. For those who care, there is a big difference.

Also let's define intervention as not acting to escalate the situation. Once the immediate danger to the victims and immediate bystanders has passed it's game on!

Luckily my son has never been in that situation. But its' one of his main worries when going out late at night.

And yes i am proud of him. More so for being a stand up guy, never giving up on his goals, and for following in his dad's footsteps and becoming a helicopter pilot.

For the last two years you told everyone you're a top shelf high finance bond sales man?
Now you a helicopter pilot??

 

[Native Floridian]

For the last two years you told everyone you're a top shelf high finance bond sales man?
Now you a helicopter pilot??

Al i thought you had my resume!!!

I was a helicopter pilot in the Army a very long time ago. Once out of the Army i never wanted to see another helicopter as long as i lived. Go figure! So, some airline that didn't know any better gave me a job flying paying passengers all over the country. well, mostly the northeast. First in Beech 99s then in the right seat of 727s. But that would be as far as i would get. Migraine headaches forced me to retire after five years. From there I tried a few things including starting my own air taxi service. That was an expensive mistake. Busted but full of drive, i figured if i couldn't fulfill my dream career i might as well go make money. i started in the securities industry where a very smart man taught me how to sell bonds. And the rest, as they say is history.

Al that's it you've got the whole thing now so file it away.

Th not trying to go off topic. Just answering Al's question.

 

[NHBandit]

NF it's good to be proud of your son. It's a dangerous job that's not appreciated by alot of people. What took me by surprise were your comments that they were told to stand down if they were off duty. Wasn't that basically what you said ? And armed robbery is non violent ? Isn't it by it's nature, the threat of violence or even being killed, why the victim hands over the money ? Armed robbery is not a violent crime... man some of the stuff you post just leaves me shaking my head in disbelief... Selling a little weed is what they consider a non violent crime, burglary even. Buttt.. if weapons or the threat of being injured or killed comes into play it's considered violent crime even if nobody gets hurt. Ask your son if I'm correct next time you talk to him and see what he says. Have a look at this.. http://crime.about.com/od/Crime_101/a/What-Is-A-Crime.htm Pay particular attention to this part.. "Violent Crimes: A violent crime occurs when someone harms, attempts to harm, threatens to harm or even conspires to harm someone else. Violent crimes are offenses which involve force or threat of force, such as rape, robbery or homicide."

 

[njal]

Al that's it you've got the whole thing now so file it away.

QUOTE]

No need to file it away, you will continue you're rants on how great and
wonderful you are.

 

[smokeythecat]

Hey, back to the original title of the post...It's no blasted glory to her CHILDREN and GRANDCHILDREN.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Hey, back to the original title of the post...It's no blasted glory to her CHILDREN and GRANDCHILDREN.

perhaps if she had spent more time on the range practicing instead of playing bingo................

 

[smokeythecat]

Within the last two or three weeks two people were shot through doors. One was a car wreck victim who went to somebody's house and was shot through a door. Bad move on the homeowners' part who will probably go to jail a long time, the second a lady in Florida who killed her daughter by shooting through a door. It's bad out there and people are scared and I'll bet anything it's going to get worse.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Within the last two or three weeks two people were shot through doors. One was a car wreck victim who went to somebody's house and was shot through a door. Bad move on the homeowners' part who will probably go to jail a long time, the second a lady in Florida who killed her daughter by shooting through a door. It's bad out there and people are scared and I'll bet anything it's going to get worse.

If you are afraid to learn how to shoot a gun, you should stay close to someone with the proper training to protect you from bad people out there...........

 

[L.C. BAKER]

RULE #1 IDENTIFY YOUR TARGET
RULE #2 MAKE SURE THE AREA IN FRONT AND BEHIND OF IT IS CLEAR

#3 "OPTIONAL" WARNING SHOT

 

[smokeythecat]

Heck, people with guns are afraid too. Actually, they are probably the most afraid because they know it CAN happen to them. Next time you walk down a street in broad daylight just watch how many people will actually look you in the face. If you were to jump, people would probably freak out and run. Our society is being conditioned to be scardy cat. (Unlike smokeythecat).

 

[Jim in Idaho]

Giving up is a personal decision...nothing more. So is standing your ground. I see nothing wrong with giving in, though, in my mind, standing your ground is the correct thing to do for a couple of reasons. 1. If you live, you will have deterred a crime, and also maybe taught a lesson to the would-be criminal. 2. You have upheld your responsibility to society. If you give in, you encourage that criminal to do it again, to some other poor soul. In effect, you have maybe saved yourself, at the expense of others. Same thing goes with gun ownership. My guns protect me, and my friends and family. But, they also may protect people I've never met. On the other hand, the person who refuses to own guns, can protect no one...not even themselves...in tough times, they're a hindrance to survival.....just one more deadweight that responsible people have to worry about.
Jim[/QUOTE



How about this: You come out to your car in a parking lot. it's dark. You know the place well. It's safe, you've been coming here for years. it's good section of town. No worries. But as you stop to open your car door a dark figure appears directly behind you. he sticks a gun in your back. he's got the drop on you. You get a huge adrenaline shot that sends a hot wave into your head. That's the feeling of fear. And is quite normal. Now your heart is ready to jump out of your chest it is beating so hard, your knees are weak, again the adrenaline. fight or flight, your body's normal reaction to fear is fully engaged. That's hard wired into each of us. This is how it is. Heart racing, knees ready to buckle, adrenaline induced heat frying your head. And, what you are saying is in that condition, you believe it's time to teach that punk a lesson? And if you could, how would you? His finger is on the trigger and yours is where?

These situations aren't Dirty Harry movies. Situations where we clearly, calmly turn the tables. These are desperate situations. Situations that where life and death is decided in milliseconds.

Jim, I respect your opinion on this board. I and i respect that you would want to take the highest road. My post here is only my opinion that I just don't think that's the way it goes down.

I said to be brave and responsible...not stupid. You can always paint a scenario to make your point. Lets not get into that. Lets stick to what happened. They both had guns, and she had an opportunity to defend herself. She decided not to place her life in their hands, by giving in. I applaud that. The result is 3 armed robbers off the street. Who knows how many lives she may have saved by doing that. She deserves a medal of some sort.....but, don't look for it from this administration.
Jim