Had the police call on me today!

[pat-tekker-cat]

It seems the terms "easement" and "right of way" have different meanings in different areas. There are also different type designations of these areas, see below link......

Where I live, an "easement" is owned and maintained by the property owner. The only persons that have a right to be there, are the utility workers, city infrastructure, phone/cable companies. They are not public areas. (It also depends on the area. We do not have sidewalks in front of our homes)

A "right of way" is owned and maintained by the city and/or county. They are public access areas, just be careful digging, like TH says, you bust some fiber optic line or gas line, well....... you and your wallet can end up toasted.

What Is the Difference Between Easement & Right of Way? | Home Guides | SF Gate

Being this is a legal section thread, better to spread info than insults, donchathink

 

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[foiler]

Easement rights vary from place to place so you have to be careful. As a general rule, using common sense here, a controlling government body cannot ask it's citizen land owners to maintain property that isn't theirs. Again common sense, a city or town isn't going to spend millions maintaining hundreds of miles of grass strips, the owner is which is not the city. Easement rights are access to property owned by others and, there are limits to that access. In other words that strip of grass between the sidewalk and the street is probably owned, deeded and taxed to the home its in front of. In some instances the property line extends all the way to the center line of the street. Maintenance of unimproved easement ground is usually left to the deeded owner. So, if you choose to impede upon such property with a metal detector and the owner objects take it seriously, because in court in front of a judge not friendly cops, you loose.

 

[Alchemy]

Sounds to me like a wee bit of jealousy. Seems like some don't want to see anyone having fun, doing what they like to do best, not disturbing anyone else, possibly find some cool things and not be told by a neighbor or anyone they can't. He may have been a bit of a control freak. "If I can't have fun, you can't) They're everywhere! lol

 

[Rick (Nova Scotia)]

This is Legal issues, and it seems no one has got it right yet.

A lot of people are calling the strip of grass between street, and sidewalk "public" land, which it isn't.

Technically, yes it is Gov. land, Dept. of Transportation's to what ever the "road limits" are in your area, I see some say 50 feet, around here it is 66 feet (on most & major roads more). So yes your property markers are 33 (or 25) feet from the center of the road. But for all intents, and purposes, and in any real way that bit of land from the edge of the street to the edge of the "road limit" is owned by the adjacent land owner. That is why they are responsible for mowing that grass, and where it snows they are responsible for clearing the snow and ice off of it.

Chicago
City of Chicago :: Sidewalk Snow Removal

Toronto
Ice storm: Who is responsible for clearing the sidewalk? - National | Globalnews.ca

That's just a couple of examples, and for the most part it is done with machines anywaay, but the point is they (the adjacent land owner) are responsibe for it because of in blue above.

Taking the reasoning that I see here some are saying that if you go just outside of town to where the sidewalk ends and lawns go right to the shoulder of the road.
Remember the "road limit" is still the same, someone can get out his measureing tape measure off 33 feet from the center of the road and help himself to digging about an 18 foot strip of my lawn ?
I don't think so, in fact I know so.

Yes the town can dig for water lines etc, and the DOT can widen a road, but in no way is it "Public" land to do as they wish.

I could give some more proof, but probably a waste of time anyway, I expect this to continue, but that is the law.
In the end, any attention / publicity you bring to hobby is almost always not good.

 

[Heyjak]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z8OcEE8lQsE

Almost 200,00 views. when we have no where to go we know who to thank all for a couple trinkets. AAAGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
THAT'S A SLOB HUNTER

 

[Tom_in_CA]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z8OcEE8lQsE Almost 200,00 views. when we have no where to go we know who to thank all for a couple trinkets. AAAGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT'S A SLOB HUNTER

Heyjak, you also need to consider the opposite effect. You seem fixated on a "slob" hunter, which has explicit connotation of some goof-ball waltzing along curb-strips leaving holes at high noon with all the people on their front porches (no doubt ready to hop in their cars and go down to city hall to "make a law" no less). But why must you have that mental mindset ? Since when it md'ing always-for-sure thought of as "evil and harmful" by every casual observer, in your mind's eye? Heck, I (and most of us) have people ALL THE TIME come out and are genuinely interested and friendly. Eg.:

"what's the best thing you've ever found" and

"where can I get one of those" and

"I've always wanted to do that"

And so forth. Why is it then, that you, like some others, have this impending doom image that every single last person in the world hate you and us, hates md'rs, and assumes the worst ? Why is that? If that premise is true, then by all means, get permission to hunt every last single sandbox "lest you get arrested and have laws made against us".

And in fact, the origin of laws is often time the people asking (well, asking at city hall anyhow) stupid questions like "can I metal detect?". I know you think that question AVERTS laws, but on the contrary, it often time only CAUSES laws to come about, d/t desk-bound bureaucrats seeing silence on the subject in their city codes. So guess what they do? : MAKE a law or rule to address this "pressing issue". I've seen it happen many times Heyjak where there was no issue or problem in a certain park or city, UNTIL someone went and asked. And even if not a formal law or rule (just simply a "no"), then it becomes a defacto policy of sorts. A thing that is now "on the radar" as something they should watch for. As if it were evil and harmful enough that you had to ask, in the first place (would you have asked to fly a frisbee? Why can't md'ing be as innocuous as that? Why is it defined as dangerous and bad?) I'm not saying to throw caution to the wind and be a "slob". But the mere act of md'ing in a place with no prohibition, is not defined as "being a slob".

 

[Heyjak]

WHAT EVER ...... Anyone wanna go shoot some deer on the side of the road tonight out my truck window, bring a flashlight. You all know when you might not be doing the right thing. Oh I got a scuff mark on my truck roof from some slob frisbee throwers.
" the few will ruin it for the many"

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

WHAT EVER ...... Anyone wanna go shoot some deer on the side of the road tonight out my truck window, bring a flashlight. You all know when you might not be doing the right thing. Oh I got a scuff mark on my truck roof from some slob frisbee throwers.
" the few will ruin it for the many"

Heyjac back off, last time I ask politely. ...






American by birth, Patriot by choice.

I would rather die standing on my two feet defending our Constitution than live a lifetime on my knees......

 

[watercolor]

The only time I've ever hunted these types of easements is when the city is replacing curbs and pulling up sidewalk slabs.

It's alot easier to recover an OLD target when the top 4-inches of turf has been scraped and/or re-graded

 

[cudamark]

I find it interesting that some will have no problem with the government (or utility companies) coming in with jack hammers and backhoes to tear out a sidewalk, curb, and grass, but an individual gets crucified by these same people for cutting a plug. The attitude that the government can do no wrong and that the private sector is a bunch of vandals and thieves, escapes me.

 

[LM]

I've found that with cops, you generally get what you give. If you're polite, so are they, however I'm a white guy over 40. I remember being a white kid in my late teens and 20's and how cops were back then. I also have a couple black friends who are white collar professionals, 100% law abiding yet have very different stories about their encounters with police... so, while my own experiences have been benign, I understand that not everyone feels this way.

Metal detecting is one of those things that's deep into statuteland. If there isn't a specific statute addressing it, then there are usually going to be general statutes that may be applied to metal detecting at the discretion of the officer. Its up to you to know your rights, know the laws that govern your activity and know how to present all that in a field situation without coming off like an *******. If you're falsely charged or arrested, then that's why courts exist.

I have a friend who went through the background check/tax stamp process to acquire a 100% legal, federally registered automatic weapon. He also lives in a very rural area where he can shoot on his own property. You think WE have it rough as far as clueless idiots not understanding what's legal and what isn't? Try explaining a report of automatic weapons fire to 8 cars of responding local police officers, none of whom have the slightest clue about the law that governs such things

 

[beez0404]

I am very new (3 months experience) to the hobby. Already I am able to see that the hardest thing is going to be finding good places to detect. Sure, I could go out in some farm field and hope I come across a good signal somewhere on the 40+ acres which could take months to detect. I've had no problem getting permission to dig the fields after and prior to planting season. Haven't found anything in them, but they are there to detect.

As I see it, with so few good places to detect, anyplace that you can legally detect on is fair game. I won't break a law to enjoy my hobby and be looking over my shoulder for the authorities the whole time I'm supposed to be having fun.

I have a fraction of the experience many of you on the forum have, but we do have one thing in common. We pay taxes! So I believe that gives each of us the right to detect upon property we technically all partially own. I have not tried detecting on the small strips between the sidewalk and curb yet. But will not hesitate if I run out of other legal places to hunt.

 

[Pointman]

Nepotism is in regards to being related to someone and receiving favoritism over others, usually in a job. Regarding that your friend knew the cop is simply a friendship. I have had police stop me more times than I can recall while detecting and we always talk, laugh and become acquainted sometimes. Essentially, the same thing because we become somewhat friends.

I have had the same thing happen to me regarding the easement. I have had police called on me and one time a man yelled at me for being on the sidewalk. I didn't argue and we agreed to disagree. In speaking to a lot of cities regarding the easement, the easement is not owned by the homeowner and is considered eminent domain because of city utilities. Technically the homeowner is not allowed to plant or use the easement for private use, and most cities tell me that they are not even required to keep the grass mowed there, although it would depend on the city ordinance. My big fuss if someone yelled at me about being on the easement, then they could place a no trespassing sign on the sidewalk and prosecute whomever walks on the easement/sidewalk or if someone tripped on the easement and feel into oncoming traffic then would the homeowner be liable? Rest assured, I bet the homeowner would relinquish any desire to own the easement if this happens.

I always am really careful where I hunt on easements. I don't hunt easements where it is too close to someone's house and I more try to hunt areas where there aren't any houses, or where the houses are closed up. I always pick up any trash from the sides and I am always respectful regarding my digging and taking care of the grass.

I can respect what others are saying about the easement being public domain to walk and not dig. It is best to check with the city and get their blessing so to speak, speak to the homeowner first and/or only dig in areas where there are no homes or chances of offending someone.

 

[cudamark]

I agree with most of what you say except for your last paragraph. If you're going to ask a city bureaucrat or homeowner (who probably don't know the law) if you can detect the parking strip, what do you think they're going to say? No is the easiest answer and one they're likely to use. If you are only gong to hunt areas where there is "no homes or chances of offending someone" you'll soon be relegated to hunting your own yard.

 

[DigIron2]

Keep doing your thing man.Too hell with people like that,that have nothing better to do then complain about something that is as harmless as metal detecting.Some people are just pricks.Reminds me of some of the rich yuppies around here that buy a piece of property and a small mansion then think they own the whole town.The only things I think gives hunters a bad rep. is leaving holes ,trash and caught trespassing.Other then that, we hurt not a thing,nature or man.Glad to hear he didn't hold you down!I would go back and see if I couldn't find another ring,and maybe give him a little wink

 

[cudamark]

Thanks, but I'd rather never see him again. I wouldn't do either one of us any good.

 

[Ripsaw]

I dislike this story, and it's not about the ring or the outcome. It's about nepotism! If you didn't have your police friend with you, this would have escalated. And i dont know, maybe it should have esclated.

Where do we draw the line? Look, I'm a metal dector also, but come on this is absurd. Get permission first.

I think it's odd that you are detecting so close to someone's home without asking for permission. If it was my house, and you were digging around on the side strip of my home, which is owned by the city, but we are told to take care of, I would have called the cops, expecting some serious resolve!

This is story above is a good example of nepotism, and that is what I dislike. I have 3 relatives in the c.h.p., and I hear about things simular to this a lot. Drunken behavior, being on private property, drunk fighting and reckless driving. People being let off the hook because they are off duty police officers or know someone with the right friends. They even joke about it. Most often it's about their driving and how poorly they drive, speeding mostly.
I really, really hate nepotism.
I don't know, I guess I'm ranting about distorted social reality, and how we just let it slide on by...

Wow, beats anything I ever read or heard about. Nepotism ? Really ? That just doesn't follow - a non-sequitor.

Permission, to traverse on public land ?.... would you guys listen to yourselves. You don't need anyone's permission to do anything on public land. It belongs to you, so use it as you see fit. If you mess it up, you pay for it, that's all. Fix it and move on. If this clown told me I better be gone when he got back, I would have pitched a tent and waited for him to come back. Some people still astound me. Who the heck do they think they are....the city tells us to keep up city property...really ? I suppose most just blindly obey and never question on what or under whom's authority they "tell us."

I realize being a new guy here, and being my first post and all, that my post may not be well received by many, but I posted here specifically to let you guys in on a few little known facts about the law.

The facts:
There is no factual evidence that any law, code, statute, state constitution, or the u.s. constitution, has any applicability to you or anyone. Absent proof of applicability of the laws, there is no jurisdiction or standing in a court of law. Without standing, you can not have a valid cause of action to be levied against anyone and therefore no jurisdiction.

There are only two kinds of law in this country, civil and criminal. Under civil is only contractual agreements and torts. If a cop, D.A., or individual charges you with a civil crime, they dern well better have a contract you signed and agreed too. No exceptions. If they charge you with criminal, there dern well better be someone standing there pointing their finger at you in court and claiming that you injured or harmed them...and not some made up nonsense either, it must be a bonafide injury..... "he bruised my cities dead grass".......OMG, get a rope !

Habues Corpus - the body of the crime folks. Did you injure or harm someone while retrieving the ring ? Of course not.

Besides that, there is no such thing as the state or the city. They are fictions and ideas made up in the minds of men, they don't really exist. How can something that doesn't exist, bring charges against you ? They can't....ohh they try every day and get away with it because people are afraid or fearful of what they may do to you if you don't knuckle under and obey their ridiculous demands. I can prove the state doesn't exist, and have in court.... yet you still read cases that read, ....The state of N.Y. vs. John Doe

Government has one and only one function and purpose. To protect and maintain the rights of the individual.
That's it, that's all.... Nothing else whatsoever.

If I decide to set up a fruit stand and sell fruit I've grown myself, in central park n.y., nobody has the right to require me to have a license, pay fees for a right, converted by some politician into a privelege, or to tax my sales.

If noone is hurt or injured, there is no crime ! There is no such thing as a victimless crime, yet you hear about it on the news nightly. Drug arrest and storm troopers breaking down people's door to bust them for dope and even killing them in the process, yet no crime has been committed to give them jurisdiction to act. Our jails and prisons are overflowing with people that have never harmed anyone.....yet found guilty in a court of "so called" law. If it weren't so sad, it would be funny. The definition of a law is ... an opinion backed by a gun.....Victimless crime is an oxymoron like jumbo shrimp, military intelligence...etc.

So do yourself a favor, the next time some psychopath calling themselves government officials, wearing a costume and a badge, tell you or orders you to do something, ask them why, ask them what gave them the power to tell you anything. Ask them if your voluntary consent is required, and if it's not, then it's compulsory. Then tell them if government services were valuable and the free market wanted them, would they be compulsory ?

Supreme court decision - The governed may only be governed by consent. The created, may not have more power than the creators....and another pertinent one......a badge does not confer extra rights in this country.

If anyone is interested in seeing my proof of these statements of fact, I can start a new thread in the legal section here with the facts and court decisions, proving the state is all a lie.... and now you know that absent a complaining party, and it can't be the state or city that complains because they don't exist, then there is no case of controversy and no adversary....case dismissed.

 

[SoCalBeachScanner]

Wow, beats anything I ever read or heard about. Nepotism ? Really ? That just doesn't follow - a non-sequitor.

Permission, to traverse on public land ?.... would you guys listen to yourselves. You don't need anyone's permission to do anything on public land. It belongs to you, so use it as you see fit. .

FACT...

"Public property is property and real estate that is owned by a government, generally a government chosen by the people. The concept is that the government is made up of the people, and that therefore the people own the property that is entrusted to the government for care. This does not necessarily mean that the property is available for public use or access."

It sounds like you come form the school of "The Great IRS Hoax - Why We Don't Owe Income Tax"

Good luck with that thinking

 

[xrunndonex]

T H if you pulled anything around my town ( gangland ) it would end badly with im in the right or the cops would haul you away for destructive damage to city property or something made up / city workers do have the right to dig up pipes and such out there or access a pole in the back yard .

Were chitown the windy city the city of Capone!

 

[choppadude]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z8OcEE8lQsE

Almost 200,00 views. when we have no where to go we know who to thank all for a couple trinkets. AAAGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
THAT'S A SLOB HUNTER

That video is about the most fake thing I have seen since Pamela Andersons Breast!