Knights of the Golden Circle after the Civil War

Nobody said:
As I am looking into an area that has both KoC ties (and a couple others), can I ask you to clarify all of that a bit? The KoC were founded by an Irish Jesuit with French/Canadian ties in 1882, 50 years after Skull & Bones (who bear the Templar Skull & Bones) was formed, in the same city, New Haven. What kind of ties do you refer to when you say 'descended'? Is it that they modeled their order after the Knights of Christ (including the same KoC abbreviation), or are you suggesting some type of very real and continuous thing, like the first members being Knights of Christ folks? Or ?...?

It is interesting that Columbus was married to a Portuguese lady. His father-in-law's dad was a Lombard Knight. Of course, whoever painted that picture of the ship sails with the red crosses wanted us to think that Columbus had Knights of Christ ties.

The second point of clarification, if you don't mind, concerns the York Rite Templars and how that relates to Scottish Rite, Knights of Christ and KoC. If it is the S.R./KoC line that is the 'true' Templar line, wouldn't those that formed the York Templars have known this? What then, was the intent of the York Rite laying claim to the Templars?

I guess a last question is whether there is a Templar type degree or offshoot of Scottish Rite?
Click to expand...

Nah.. not KoC; MAINLY ODD FELLOWS & MASONS. Columbus PROBABLY had access to "sailing maps" of the ORIGINAL Knights Templar, who had 18 ships on the ATLANTIC Ocean, which went SOMEWHERE! 2nd question - ANSWER: YORK RITE is SEPARATE "Body" of Freemasons; 4th-7th Degrees are Royal Arch Masons, & 8th-10th are MASONIC Knights Templar. Scottish Rite DOES have "Templar Degrees", yes. Beyond 32nd of Scottish Rite (I am one), there is NO "Templar type offshoot". BEST book, I have read on Columbus is CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS, The LAST Templar by Ruggero Marino... check it out!
 

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Rebel - KGC said:
BIG old battle between Rebs & Yanks along James River, south of Richmond... north of Williamsburg; Battle of THE CRATER... near Hopewell; check it out... NO MD'ing IN THE PARK; check park boundaries, if you can, for CAMP-SITES!
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I have been doing some research on all the civil war battles fought in Virginia. It absolutely amazes me how many people in this country have no care in the world about history. Too many people are glued to their tv and cellular phones.

Thanks for your suggestion Rebel, is that the battle of 42,000 yanks vs 36,000 confederates? Should be some damn good stuff in the ground.
 

UpstateCacheHunter said:
I have been doing some research on all the civil war battles fought in Virginia. It absolutely amazes me how many people in this country have no care in the world about history. Too many people are glued to their tv and cellular phones.

Thanks for your suggestion Rebel, is that the battle of 42,000 yanks vs 36,000 confederates? Should be some damn good stuff in the ground.
Click to expand...

All I remember about the Battle of the Crater is, that the REBS had a big camp there & Yankee Sappers tunneled under the camp; Yanks filled tunnel with LOTS of dynamite or some kind of POWDER... BOOM! BIG old crater was ALL that was left of the CSA camp... BUT! A massive battle ensued... "google" Battle of THE CRATER - Virginia.
 

Texas Jay said:
From:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

***

While the KGC naysayers continue to rant and rave that the Knights of the Golden
Circle died "during the War", they never do provide a specific year or reputable
source to support this erroneous claim. Here is a newspaper article from August
3, 1864, that says "The numerical strength of this Order is said to be
considerably over half a million." This was in late 1864 so it sure doesn't
sound to me like a dying organization. The proven fact is that the KGC had
hundreds of thousands more members at the end of the War than it had at the
beginning.
~Jay~

***
From Richmond Daily Dispatch.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2006.05.1135%2\
53Aarticle%253D6

Additional from the North.
From Northern papers of the 30th we get some additional intelligence.
The Yankees are considerably befogged about the whereabouts of Early, though
they state positively that be has retired beyond Martinsburg.

General Hunter, who has been relieved at his own request from the command of the
army in the Valley, is carrying on a contemptible and cruel prosecution of the
citizens of Maryland. He has exiled the secession citizens of Frederick.--Messrs
Bingham and Norris, editors of the Frederick Citizen, have been sent South.

The St. Louis Democrat publishes a long account of the conspiracy for the
erection of a Northwestern confederacy, referred to a few days since. The
organization engaged in this conspiracy is known as the Order of American
Knights, and their object is to embarrass the Government in the conduct of the
war, and to overthrow the Government, if necessary, for the supremacy of the
Order. Its professions and purposes are different in different States. It
proclaims a war policy in New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and other Eastern
States, while in the West it is for peace.

The Democrat's account says:

` The Order is of Southern origin, being erected on the ruins of the Knights of
the Golden Circle. Of the Southern organization General Sterling Price is
Supreme Commander. C C Vallandigham, while in Richmond, was made the Supreme
Commander of the Northern section or Order. A conspiracy, it is said, was
entered into between him and the rebel authorities to divide the East from the
West, and to thus aid the Southern rebellion.

' Vallandigham's time in Canada, it is said, was principally spent in furthering
this scheme. He had a conference with some of the leading spirits in the North,
and soon after his arrival in Canada arranged for the establishment of an Order
throughout the loyal States. The names of all who visited him at the Clifton
House are known to the Government. Among them the names of several prominent
politicians are published. The results of the conference are also known to the
Government.

About the 1st of January Vallandigham issued an address to the members of the
Golden Circle in the loyal States, in which he called upon them to renew their
vows, and said the time was fast approaching which will test their sincerity;
that the prosecution of the war is in violation of the rights of the States, and
President Lincoln is a usurper.

A meeting of the grand commanders of the different States was held in New York
on the 22d of February for the purpose of organizing an outbreak on the 10th of
March, the day fixed for the draft, but no definite plan was resolved upon. The
names of these conspirators are also known. The same commanders had a general
consultation with the supreme commanders at Windsor, Canada, early in April.

Amongst those in attendance were McMasters, of New York, Charles L. Hunt, St.
Louis, and Lafayette Devlin, of Indiana.

The programme adopted at those meetings was, that Vallandigham should represent
his District of Ohio in the Democratic National Convention, and there proclaim
the doctrine of the Order, viz: Pronounce the existing Administration of the
Government a power usurped, which the people had a right to expel by force, if
necessary. In fact, to inaugurate a rebellion in the North, in which he was to
be supported by the Order. Each Grand Commander was to have an armed bodyguard
at the Convention for the defence of Vallandigham. This, it was thought, would
precipitate the people of the Free States into armed conflicts and would be the
signal for the members of the Order to unite against the lawful authorities,
kill or capture the civil and military authorities, seize the arsenals, arms
public property of all kinds, and proclaim the Government overthrown.

The numerical strength of this Order is said to be considerably over half a
million. One hundred and fifty thousand of the whole are organized in New York,
and are called McClellan Minute Men.

There is the most convincing evidence of the truthfulness of this statement. The
reason of the sudden return of Vallandigham to Ohio was the fear of being
defeated as a delegate to Chicago, and it was only by his presence that his
election was secured.

The Grand Commander of Missouri is Charles L. , a nephew of James H. Lucas, and
many years the Belgian Consul, and the Deputy Grand Commander, Charles E. Dunn,
a city officer of St. Louis.

A long list of the names of the members of the Order of the different states,
together with full information concerning the whole scheme, is in the hands of
the authorities at Washington, and will probably be given to the public in a
short time.

The statements are based upon very voluminous testimony, taken during several
months past by the Provost Marshal General of the Department of Missouri.

Mrs. Mary E. Sawyer, of Baltimore, for corresponding with the Confederates, has
been sentenced to be confined in the female prison at Fritchburg, Massachusetts,
during the war, and "to be employed in labor for the benefit of the Union
soldiers"

Johnson S. Palmer, a blockade runner, of Loudon county, Va., has been sentenced
to the Albany (N. Y.) penitentiary for the war for trading with the
Confederates.

Charles L. Weller. Ex-Postmaster of San Francisco, has been arrested and
imprisoned at Fort Alcatraz, on the charge of using treasonable language at a
meeting of a Copperhead Club. --Weller is chairman of the Democratic State
Central Committee.


The Daily Dispatch: August 3, 1864. Richmond Dispatch. 2 pages. by Cowardin &
Hammersley. Richmond. August 3, 1864. microfilm. Ann Arbor, Mi : Proquest. 1
microfilm reel ; 35 mm.
Institute of Museum and Library Services National Leadership Grant provided
support for entering this text.

***
Click to expand...

I can prove with out a doubt that they continued on until at least 1896 by a retrieved cipher and key they left. I have good evidence to support the claim that they actually continued into the early 1900's. Of course after 1863 or so they were known as the O.A.K.

L.C.:thumbsup:
 

Rebel - KGC said:
All I remember about the Battle of the Crater is, that the REBS had a big camp there & Yankee Sappers tunneled under the camp; Yanks filled tunnel with LOTS of dynamite or some kind of POWDER... BOOM! BIG old crater was ALL that was left of the CSA camp... BUT! A massive battle ensued... "google" Battle of THE CRATER - Virginia.
Click to expand...

Wow, anywhere from 267 -279 confederates were killed just with the blast alone. Tactic caught the confederates off guard but the union made the error of sending a bewildered, inexperienced unit into the crater, instead of several groups of African Americans . As a result the confederates hunkered down and dominated the rest of the battle.
 

L.C. BAKER said:
I can prove with out a doubt that they continued on until at least 1896 by a retrieved cipher and key they left. I have good evidence to support the claim that they actually continued into the early 1900's. Of course after 1863 or so they were known as the O.A.K.

L.C.:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

I don't believe the KGC is dead. Beliefs and causes, such as the ones the knights of the golden circles believed in, are not the type that wither away overnight. Although I don't have any proof, yet, I believe the KGC may be alive and well. Could be under a different name, or as secret as ever. Bob brewer once said a group of people stopped him two separate times and told him to leave after they noticed a metal detector. Guys had assault weapons on back of vehicle. Not saying it was a sentinal, but it is definitely something to think about.
 

They are not dead in the way that they are still making money and laws to protect it, but the days of the secret meetings are long past. If there is a living sect they come from a long line of Rebels and I would support them any way I could.:thumbsup:

p.S. Brewer could have spooked some guys that were growing pot!:thumbsup:
 

L.C. BAKER said:
They are not dead in the way that they are still making money and laws to protect it, but the days of the secret meetings are long past. If there is a living sect they come from a long line of Rebels and I would support them any way I could.:thumbsup:

p.S. Brewer could have spooked some guys that were growing pot!:thumbsup:
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I can definitely see a small, die hard sect remaining. However, like you said L.C. they are still monetizing and working the system.

Even though my entire family grew up in the north I can't help but wonder if I got a little confederate blood in my veins as I have always been enamored with the confederates and my first trip into the deep south I felt more at home than I ever did in the north. Hopefully I stumble on a site or two that an point me in the right direction.

Just ordered shadow of the sentinal. Can't wait to read it!

Happy holidays everyone!
 

UpstateCacheHunter said:
I can definitely see a small, die hard sect remaining. However, like you said L.C. they are still monetizing and working the system.

Even though my entire family grew up in the north I can't help but wonder if I got a little confederate blood in my veins as I have always been enamored with the confederates and my first trip into the deep south I felt more at home than I ever did in the north. Hopefully I stumble on a site or two that an point me in the right direction.

Just ordered shadow of the sentinal. Can't wait to read it!

Happy holidays everyone!
Click to expand...

It is a really good book to read and reread several times!

L.C.
 

L.C. BAKER said:
They are not dead in the way that they are still making money and laws to protect it, but the days of the secret meetings are long past. If there is a living sect they come from a long line of Rebels and I would support them any way I could.:thumbsup:

p.S. Brewer could have spooked some guys that were growing pot!:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

LOL! SAME problem with Beale Treasure in the mountains near Montvale, Va. POT PATCHES!
 

We know that after the Civil War the KGC became even more secretive. We also know that even though the war was over, the KGC was secretly busy preparing for the south to rise again. The KGC infiltrated the union states, and even had KGC members in the union army. Plenty of secret organizations have been around longer than the KGC, and it is my personal belief that somewhere in this country a sect remains ready to rise again.

It is obvious to anyone that has studied the KGC at length that they infiltrated all areas of power and influence (politics, banking, law) and began stocking away mega cash for their ultimate goals. After all this time I believe the KGC to be one of the wealthiest organizations this world has ever seen. I don't know that the KGC will ever "rise again", but I believe they are still around and still protecting their interests. A dream of mine would be to uncover a modern sect, probably far fetched, but nothing worth finding, comes without research, hard work, and dedication. Regardless I know the quest will be amazing all on it's own.
 

UpstateCacheHunter said:
We know that after the Civil War the KGC became even more secretive. We also know that even though the war was over, the KGC was secretly busy preparing for the south to rise again. The KGC infiltrated the union states, and even had KGC members in the union army. Plenty of secret organizations have been around longer than the KGC, and it is my personal belief that somewhere in this country a sect remains ready to rise again.

It is obvious to anyone that has studied the KGC at length that they infiltrated all areas of power and influence (politics, banking, law) and began stocking away mega cash for their ultimate goals. After all this time I believe the KGC to be one of the wealthiest organizations this world has ever seen. I don't know that the KGC will ever "rise again", but I believe they are still around and still protecting their interests. A dream of mine would be to uncover a modern sect, probably far fetched, but nothing worth finding, comes without research, hard work, and dedication. Regardless I know the quest will be amazing all on it's own.
Click to expand...

Gotta do MORE on O.A.K. (Order of American Knights)...
 

Rebel is correct. From what we have discovered, the remainder of the high ranking Knights of the K.G.C. before and during the Civil War became part of the inner circle of the O.A.K. some time after 1863. History has been misinterpreted by historians that tell us the O.A.K. was a short lived organization.

L.C.:thumbsup:
 

Rebel - KGC said:
Gotta do MORE on O.A.K. (Order of American Knights)...
Click to expand...

Thanks Rebel. Before I move onto O.A.K. I want to learn all I can about K.G.C. Awesome to have you and L.C. on this board as the knowledge the two of you have on this subject is amazing and inspiring. Someday I hope to know half as much as you fellas. Happy holidays!

B.p
 

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